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Ethical Questions re: Diamonds

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Thinking_about_it

Rough_Rock
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So I''m still thinking about it (popping the question) and have found this to be a great resource, so kudos to all the great contributors on the site.

I don''t mean to stir the pot (though I may end up doing so)...but I feel slightly uneasy spending a lot on a diamond when I know there is a history of conflict diamonds out there. From what I have read with various international protocols, it seems this isn''t much of an issue anymore.

What I''m looking for is a bit more than assurance from someone selling me the rock that ethical practices were used to mine and process the diamond. I am also concerned about the fair compensation of the miners. After all, does it make sense to pay a villager a few dollars for something ultimately worth a few thousand dollars?

So with that, I have a few questions:

- Have any of you had similar thoughts? If so, what resources or means have you used to justify the purchase?

- Should I feel uneasy about my points above or it is a non-issue in today''s world?

- What does diamond money do for developing countries?

- Are so called "ethical" diamonds from Canada worth investigating?

- Am I out of line posting this here? Should it go on another forum?

Again, I don''t mean to ruffle any feathers, just doing the amount of research commensurate with a $10,000 purchase.



- Thinking_about_it
 
Date: 1/7/2008 1:57:26 PM
Author:Thinking_about_it
So I''m still thinking about it (popping the question) and have found this to be a great resource, so kudos to all the great contributors on the site.

I don''t mean to stir the pot (though I may end up doing so)...but I feel slightly uneasy spending a lot on a diamond when I know there is a history of conflict diamonds out there. From what I have read with various international protocols, it seems this isn''t much of an issue anymore.

What I''m looking for is a bit more than assurance from someone selling me the rock that ethical practices were used to mine and process the diamond. I am also concerned about the fair compensation of the miners. After all, does it make sense to pay a villager a few dollars for something ultimately worth a few thousand dollars?

So with that, I have a few questions:

- Have any of you had similar thoughts? If so, what resources or means have you used to justify the purchase?

- Should I feel uneasy about my points above or it is a non-issue in today''s world?

- What does diamond money do for developing countries?

- Are so called ''ethical'' diamonds from Canada worth investigating?

- Am I out of line posting this here? Should it go on another forum?

Again, I don''t mean to ruffle any feathers, just doing the amount of research commensurate with a $10,000 purchase.



- Thinking_about_it
Click to expand...
Personally I do not think it much of an issue any more, but many do. Without the diamond money many of the developing countries would be in even worse condition than they are now. Martin Rapaport made an excellent commentary on it, I believe the link is here on the forum somewhere, let me see if I can find it here too.

Wink
 
You have a very valid question. Considering the number of people living on the edge in the third world, few people seem to have much awareness of the way things really are for most of the population of the earth. You can buy a Canadian mined diamond with confidence that no blood is on it and that fair wages have been paid. The Kimberley process has done a great deal to wake up the awareness of diamond merchants and many of them do strictly follow the code of buying untainted diamonds, yet surely a large number of smuggled diamonds still make their way into the trade. Any resource of such high value and such a small size is relatively easy and highly tempting to smuggle. Even if it is for a few bits of food or what we'd deem spare change, it could make a large difference to some poor native somewhere between going to bed hungry or fed.

There are many more commodities that are mined or traded at the expense of poor people in poor or mismanaged countries. It isn't our fault, but one might ask what are we doing about it? A little progress is better than no progress. The poor will never become rich or even comfortable. How we treat the least powerful and poorest gives insight into the ugly side of our human nature. I really don't believe choosing not to buy a diamond will make a difference to how the oppressed are treated. If anything, a large group deciding not to buy would take the little money they have away. Those in power will still get to the diamonds.

There is a small movement to "fair traded" diamonds where a premium would be paid for clean stone assurance. How much premium would folks be willing to pay? The price of a fine diamond isn't low now. Would people opt to pay 10 or 15 percent additional? No doubt, some would but many or most would not.

Mining is a very difficult job description. Even under the best circumstances few of us would want to do such work. Nearly all diamonds come from legitimate mines under very strict control and "safety" is managed. The media has done a good job bringing attention to a problem that does exist, but sometimes the size of the problem is not so well described for the sake of calling more attention to the problem. It was a bad thing, but I don't believe the problem is getting worse. If anything, the problem is somewhat corrected or at least, lessened.
 
Please don''t take this the wrong way, because I do not mean to insult you in any way. I think it is great that you are thinking about everything that goes on to create the perfect diamond; but I think you may need to step away from a site like this, and do a deeper search to find the answers you are looking for. Do you want a reason not to buy a diamond? I know there are articles and sites that will make you run. And at the same time, there are sources that will down-play the conflicts, and say it is no longer a deep issue.

I understand what you mean about a miner making pennies for diamond that we will spend thousands for; but unfortunately, that is how this world works. It is a problem in just about every industry, from luxury goods to produce!

http://www.conflictfreediamonds.org/ This is a good website to get a start from. Again, I hope I wasn''t harsh, because I didn''t mean to come off that way! Good luck on your search, and please let us (or at least me!) know if you find out any interesting info.

Off topic-ish: I''m currently reading "Deluxe; How Luxury Lost its Luster" by Dana Thomas, great read! :)
 
Date: 1/7/2008 1:57:26 PM
Author:Thinking_about_it
So I''m still thinking about it (popping the question) and have found this to be a great resource, so kudos to all the great contributors on the site.
I hope the conflict issue doesnt stop you from moving from a thinking mode into a practical mode...
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I don''t mean to stir the pot (though I may end up doing so)...but I feel slightly uneasy spending a lot on a diamond when I know there is a history of conflict diamonds out there. From what I have read with various international protocols, it seems this isn''t much of an issue anymore.
I dont mean to stir your pot..., so please take my writing lightly and with a bit of humor....
The issue depends on you..., only...!!! Bringing the conflict Diamond issue on top of the recent agenda is dependent (in my opinion) on various interesting parties ..., please remember that Diamonds were (among other things) issues of conflicts since their discovery (oh..., probably thousands of years ago...
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)

What I''m looking for is a bit more than assurance from someone selling me the rock that ethical practices were used to mine and process the diamond. I am also concerned about the fair compensation of the miners. After all, does it make sense to pay a villager a few dollars for something ultimately worth a few thousand dollars?
Once the Diamond is polished and in your possession..., there is NO way to prove what mine it originated..., you will have to trust the seller/suppliers for the info. and you might even have to pay a hefty premium "for you to trust them"...
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So with that, I have a few questions:

- Have any of you had similar thoughts? If so, what resources or means have you used to justify the purchase?
decide if you want to ''pop the question''..., that would be justifiable...
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- Should I feel uneasy about my points above or it is a non-issue in today''s world?
It sound like you made it an issue...., you can still change your mind...

- What does diamond money do for developing countries?
Hope..., life... and much, much more...

- Are so called ''ethical'' diamonds from Canada worth investigating?
It wont help the poor people of Africa..., would it?

- Am I out of line posting this here? Should it go on another forum?
Not at all..., if you have time and are willing..., there is full of threads on this issue..., dont need to go searching elsewhere...

Again, I don''t mean to ruffle any feathers, just doing the amount of research commensurate with a $10,000 purchase.
Its your right and duty..., but remember..., there is always two sides to the coin or story in this case....
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- Thinking_about_it
Click to expand...
 
Just to add to what Supersash said, if you''re questioning so deeply the ethic nature of purchasing a diamond, you may want to look into other options especially since you''re on the fence about a huge $10K purchase. That''s not a small amount to spend on an item you''re not 100% comfortable buying.

There are vendors who sell conflict free diamonds and if you do decide to purchase a stone, I''d recommend researching those companies.
 
 
So with that, I have a few questions:

- Have any of you had similar thoughts? If so, what resources or means have you used to justify the purchase?

- Should I feel uneasy about my points above or it is a non-issue in today's world?

- What does diamond money do for developing countries?

- Are so called 'ethical' diamonds from Canada worth investigating?

- Am I out of line posting this here? Should it go on another forum?
Click to expand...
Thinking, to answer your questions, yes the Kimberly Process is supposed to cut down or eliminate the trade in blood diamonds. That said, I personally find it difficult to believe there are no blood diamonds on the market as no doubt many found their way into the vaults of Antwerp, etc. before the KP was put into place..I wonder if the experts can weigh in on that specific issue for us as it's just my theory.

If your real issue is to ensure a non-blood diamond, you can easily rectify that by buying Canadian, as others have suggested, or by buying an antique diamond that was mined perhaps a century or more ago. I'm by no means saying that antique stones had no conflict during their mining process as I'm sure that the conditions miners worked under back in the day were probably not very good...but you'd be avoiding the blood diamond issue with an antique stone.

All that aside, when I read your post it seems that you're just not sold on a diamond as an ering? Is that the real issue? Because if so, you can go for another type of stone, but rest assured that other stones are also mined under less than scrupulous conditions and they're probably even less likely to be sold or traded under anything resembling the KP for diamonds.

You asked what diamond money does for developing countries and while surely Sierra Leone would rate high in the minds of many as the most heinous of situations that were somewhat created by the diamond mining industry, I have lived/worked in Botswana in the late 1980's and I can tell you that diamonds can have a profoundly positive affect on a developing country. When a country has their books "in the black" they have the financial security that many countries lack, and aren't beholden to outside financing (World Bank and bilateral funding sources) for basic services such as healthcare, education, etc., let alone the political path that country selects for itself. Such a country can utilize their financial security to engage in "self determination", creating the country THEY want to create, not the country that their funders want them to create. Botswana is perhaps the only positive example I can really come up with but there, the diamond mining has been done without massive raping of the land (because the other key natural resource of Botswana is it's amazing wildlife and thus, the two resources must live harmoniously in order to both continue to be a benefit to the country for generations to come). Botswana was also saavy enough to retain more than 50% holdings of the "Debswana" mining ventures (I think the Govt. holds 51% and DeBeers has 49%, IIRC) and thus, they have more control over their own resources. They also had (I cant speak to recent politics) very wise and forward thinking leaders in the past who were careful to learn as much as possible from the DeBeers people so that one day, I wouldn't be surprised if they are able to take over their own diamond mining completely. The sad thing was that at the time I lived there, I wasn't able to buy a Botswana diamond as all the rough went to Antwerp I think. I'm not sure today what the situation is but I'd still be interested in being able to buy a stone from a specific locale - something we've talked about here recently...

Anyway, overall, I'd say you first need to sort out whether or not your hesitation is really about the conflict part, or whether or not you simply dont want to buy into the tradition of getting a diamond...Have you discussed this with your girlfriend and if so, what are her thoughts on the subject?

Lastly, there are a ton of good threads here about this issue if you do a search for CONFLICT DIAMONDS. If you want to reply to any of them and they're closed, you can just email the Admin here with the link and they'll re open that thread for you to continue...
 
Conflict diamonds have been around since ogg the caveman diamond dealer and helda the jealous step-sister and her husband bruta the bad.
 
Just want to thank everyone for their very educational replies and for keeping it clean.

I think there are several very valid points in this and other posts
- Diamonds can still be smuggled into the "conflict free" chain
- Not buying a diamond from a KP source and instead a Canadian diamond may in fact hurt the African nations getting reaching a level playing field
- More weapons are likely purchased by selling oil than diamonds
- Both Liberia and Sierra Leone are directly prohibited from importing rough diamonds to the US

I suppose there are little things that annoy me....like why does DeBeers get an exemption in South Africa from installing anti-dust equipment in its mines? This is basically just spraying water on a cutting machine to cut down on often toxic dust that results from the mining process.

I am 99% sure that I *will* buy a diamond engagement ring. Now, *when* is a whole other issue....
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Will keep you all updated on my purchase if/when I make it...but don''t expect a picture of the ring before I propose (my GF will be the first to see it).
 
Interesting, thought-provoking thread. It''s a subject we have discussed before (as John''s thread above noted)... but it does always give me pause.

I applaud the OPs sensitivity to the issue.
 
Another source of conflict-free diamonds is Australia.

It sounds like you are planning a classical engagement - having the ring on you and offering it to your lucky girlfriend. Have you discussed engagement rings with your girlfriend? You may find that she AGREES with you about conflict diamonds, and that she is open to a "vintage" diamond, or a non-diamond engagement ring, or to paying the premium for a guaranteed non-conflict stone, and getting a smaller stone that is also "ethical." If I had a fiance who discussed this with me, I would be impressed and charmed, and thrilled to work something out.

I know one couple who shared this concern. They went with a non-traditional Australian black opal ring highlighted with a few Australian diamonds.

I also know several politically liberal women who, while also concerned about "conflict" gems, found that if they were not offered an engagement ring at all, they felt devalued. This was a big surprise to them, by the way - one said the feeling crept up on her over time and gnawed at her, another that it was a warning sign she ignored. So keep planning that ring!

By the way, if you are concerned about "conflict" gems, you will want to avoid Myanmar/Burmese rubies and any imperial jade.
 
I know exactly what she wants...I''ve just made sure to listen to hints she has given or comments she''s made on other people''s rings over the last year or so.

My thoughts were validated when there was a Cartier ad in a magazine showing five very different ring types. She said they were pretty and I pointed them out in her order of preference. She still doesn''t know how I got it right
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Thanks again to everyone for contributing to the thread. I wasn''t particularly looking for a reason either way on buying a diamond, just more education.


Thinking_about_it
 
Date: 1/8/2008 9:11:10 AM
Author: Thinking_about_it
I know exactly what she wants...I''ve just made sure to listen to hints she has given or comments she''s made on other people''s rings over the last year or so.

My thoughts were validated when there was a Cartier ad in a magazine showing five very different ring types. She said they were pretty and I pointed them out in her order of preference. She still doesn''t know how I got it right
1.gif


Thanks again to everyone for contributing to the thread. I wasn''t particularly looking for a reason either way on buying a diamond, just more education.


Thinking_about_it
Click to expand...
Welcome..., hope you feel a bit more educated on this matter.
Did you read the links JohnQ pointed out?

If not..., I strongly suggest you do.
 
Once we''re talking philosophy :-)

frankly i always found it odd (in my ignorant, simple way) the strong emphasis placed on "conflict-free diamonds" as opposed to more focusing on "the conflict". 2 or more factions in a country are barbarically killing each other in a bloody war.. isn''t it more of an issue to resolve why they''re trying to kill each other vs the means by which they''re financing they''re arsenals. I''m not trying to brush the issue to the side just saying it strikes me as though the emphasis'' are imbalanced.

If we were to stop the demand of diamond imports from those countries and they were then forced to restructure their arms financing to a different model, wouldn''t the same issue still be at the heart of it? innocent people dying and suffering in the midst of political infighting?

not looking to be right, would be happy if others can set me straight and explain what i''m overlooking
 
- What does diamond money do for developing countries?
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It''s not just African countries that benefit from the diamond trade.

Thousands (if not millions) of people are employed in India, where 80-90% of diamonds are manufactured.

Apparently, it''s not uncommon to have top cutters earning $25,000 per year. In a country with so much poverty, that''s a huge amount.
 
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