Estate Jewelry Auctions

[TooMuchInformation]

So, I have a really quick question. Are there any good places online to take part in auctions for estate jewelry?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/16/2004 1:52:36 AM TooMuchInformation wrote:

So, I have a really quick question. Are there any good places online to take part in auctions for estate jewelry?----------------

What are you looking for? All the big houses (Christies, Sotherby's, Skinner, etc) have an on-line prescence for the catalog auctions. As for only on-line auctions - Ebay is the largest. But, you must first define "estate" as many new pieces are represented as old.

 

[TooMuchInformation]

I suppose age wouldn't so much matter; I should have been more clear.

Looking for a place that has auctions for quality merchandise in a safe environment (as safe as it can be), with the possibility of finding new or old items that could possibly be purchased for a good deal, for a collector or something to that effect.

On second though, however, this is a really bad question, and I'll take it back.

 

[valeria101]

The live auctions on Ebay sound like your place: some are run by high end auction houses, some not, but you have time to check the seller and all before the auction takes place. If you have your own list of auction houses you may want to trach down their online auctions. One may imagine that a serious sourec would just unload the oddities online, but this is only true about 70% of the time. The rest of 30% is surely worth a look, esp. the "private" ones. Did you ever try these?

 

[Kamuelamom]

Someone please define estate vs. vintage vs. antique vs. heirloom?

OK, so I think I know heirloom is something passed down, but does the passer downer

need to be dead? Please forgive my unfinnesse.

And what about estate?

Oh so confusing for my unknowing mind.

 

[valeria101]

If you refer to auction or sales terms, you did strike a sensitive cord here, Kamuelamom...

More often, all three words are used simply for marketing hype, and, to the best of my personal experience, about 300% more often so in the US than anywhere else.

Of all these terms, only "antique" must have precise meaning in some circumstances: it should convey that the piece is over 100 years old according to some industry "tradition" I hear every now and then. Also, object above a certain age are subject to different customs regime, and this is what should make the commercial definition precise if nothing else. Nowhere but in Boston did I have the honor to be presented with a 50 years old "antique" piece - It would have needed at least twice more to get the same label in Madrid, for example.

"Estate" should simply mean "pre-owned", but the word is badly abused to give an aura of noblesse to pieces that are used but either not old or not worthy enough to be called "antique" by the same person.

"Heirloom" is a sales pitch mystery to me: it seems that any object that may be remotely worthy of bequest gets this label. The word itself does not imply either age, or whether the object has been or is only planned to become part of inherited patrimony.

"Vintage" - unless the object described contains lots of alcohol, no idea. By extension, it should mean that the object described pertains to some past generation/fashion trend of particular importance and distinction. Don't count on it though, unless you know what "vintage" are they talking about. This seems to be the worst abused word of all: "vintage" stuff is not old enough to be "antique", valuable enough to be "heirloom" and not even likely to be counted among the significant possessions of it's former (current or future too, as a matter of fact) owner to qualify for "estate". For example, you may hear about "vintage glass" but not "vintage jewelry" (I hope).

All in all, "antique" should be something not only old, but valuable enough so that it's market value is likely to increase rather than diminish in time. Any other usage (or the other two words) are casual terms with no connotation of quality or value aside whatever current antique-store and eBay lingo is worth. I just bunch them together and mentally edit these out of any merchandise description along with “collection/museum/investment quality” and such.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/20/2004 2:46:03 AM Kamuelamom wrote:

Someone please define estate vs. vintage vs. antique vs. heirloom?

OK, so I think I know heirloom is something passed down, but does the passer downer

need to be dead? Please forgive my unfinnesse.

And what about estate?

Oh so confusing for my unknowing mind.

----------------

I think I would confuse you further.

The definitions have confine to whether a legal description, what collectors consider as a practical definition in the trade & the general public perception.

I would consider an heirloom to be something passed on from a generation to a generation. Personally, I don't think the person has to be dead in order to pass on an heirloom. To me, anything on the market that is represented as an heirloom *must* belong to the family member selling the piece. Once it transfers to someone outside of succession it is no longer an heirloom to the new owner.

Antique has a legal definition which is completely arbitrary & with no basis to reality (unless you are importing/exporting an item). The legal definition of an Antique is that it must be 100 years old. I can't remember my dates off the top of my head; but, the law came into existence in the 30's. 100 years after the invention of the circular saw - an distinction because post 1830's machines (the circular saw)are used to build furniture. So, the year the law was made in place made sense. Since then, the 100 years is just arbitrary. What *I* consider an antique is an object created in a certain defined time period w/ said time period design & materials.

Vintage just mean old - but has conotations to the above definition. Estate is the most loosy goosy term used in the marketplace. I view an estate piece the same light as an "antique". But, to some an estate piece means it belonged to someone else - in other words "used". My diamond bracelet (in the show me the ring bracelet thread) is used (though I like to refer to it as the "secondary market"

. I would not consider it to be an estate piece.

For example, IMHO, for an Art Deco style piece to be "antique" it must have been designed & created in the Art Deco style *during* the Art Deco Period using materials & techniques that were particular to the Art Deco Period.

Be careful to clarify when someone says Art Deco "style". That statement does not mean the piece *is* truly Art Deco - just created in the style of.

When evalutating Estate pieces, often the intrinsic value is less important than the overall value in terms of style, design & maker.

I hope I haven't completely confused you. Be happy to clarify further.

 

[fire&ice]

Also, being in the biz for close to 20 years & a collector for more years, the biggest mistake I see people make is putting a value on "age". Old does not mean a piece is worth more. For example, we have a little crude servicable table made in the first part of the 1800's. It is worthless compared to our Gus Stickley bookcases made circa 1910. To even add to the confusion - said bookcase is made of quartersawn oak. If the bookcase was made of mahagony (a more expensive wood), it would be worth less. This example goes to "collectibility" of an item.

 

[luvmysparklies]

K-mom,

This is what I have read:

Retro-20-49 years old
Vintage-50-99 years old
Antique 100 plus years old
Estate - used to really only mean from the estate of someone who has passed away; now includes that meaning plus pre-owned if the person is deceased or alive.
Heirloom- passed down within a family.

Just thought I'd add that to the mix!

Luv

 

[TooMuchInformation]

valeria101,

What do you mean by the "private" online auctions? And your comment about vintage...

"unless the object described contains lots of alcohol, no idea"

was nothing less than hilarious.

Thanks for the laugh.

Any wine / cognac / fine drink buffs on here?

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/20/2004 10:53:24 PM TooMuchInformation wrote:

valeria101,

What do you mean by the 'private' online auctions?
Any wine / cognac / fine drink buffs on here?----------------

Oh, some auctions are only opened to a certain list of bidders identified by the auction house (similar to the restricted Ebay listings). This is different from the registration Ebay asks for anyway. I am not an auction house regular, but once or twice I did bump into this kind of arrangement. BTW, usually these auctions are announced by the auction house and may not appear on Ebay's interface at all: the auction house is just "renting" Ebay's virtual environment for them.

Vintage... that comment was inspired by a glass of wine exactly my age near this keyboard. I am looking for Tokay everywhere I go and have yet to find something more pleasing anywhere (greenhorn's comment, for sure). It would be great to hear about others' choices on a more appropriate forum& thread