enhanced ruby

[smitcompton]

My friend went to Baily, Biddle, and Banks for 3 ring appraisls. A G.G. did the appraisals with the ruby ring appraising out fine, acually better than expected, but the ruby was called an enhanced ruby, not created, not heat treated or BE treated, but enhanced. This is a normal appraisal, not sent to a lab. The ruby was supposed to be heat treated, no BE, but is not the best qualiity, and comes from Madagascar. I know she can call the store but she is going on vacation and since I gave her the rings, I want to know from you smart people.
Thanks,
Annette

 

[twodoor2]

Are you asking what an "enhanced ruby" is? I think that's just another way to say it's treated. Rubies, are commonly fracture filled with a variety of substances (lead, glass, colored resin), to make them look better. Heat treatment is a more common and acceptable treatment in the trade, and 90% of rubies are treated in this way. It is very common for Madagascar rubies to be fracture filled.

What surprises me that the appraisal didn't say what the enhancement was, but again appraisals from stores are not the way to go with getting a true diagnosis of the stone. It's much better to send the stones to a reputable gem lab like AGTA, GIA, GRS, etc. . . Emeralds are also commonly fracture filled, and most good lab reports will indicate that there is some fracture filling and to what degree. Perhaps your friend can talk to the gemologist that did the appraisal to get a better idea exactly what the "enhancement" is.

 

[smitcompton]

Two- Door
Thanks for your answer. Yes, I was asking what "enhanced ruby" could mean. I just saw these appraisals quickly. If it means heat treated, why not just say so.
I do not agree with another appraisal on a tsavorite garnet ring that the G.G. did . There are 25 pts of small melee type diamonds in the setting. I had two identical rings made for two neices. I had one appraised two yrs ago that was in white gold. My other neice declinced the other ring which is in yellow gold. The first appraisal stated the diamonds were HI in color and si-1-si2 in clarity. This G.G. says the small diamonds are 0-P. They were both 14 kt gold . roumd brillant cut, 90 pts, and 85 pts respectively. How can I get two different appraisal, one less than half the other. I just dont believe this one. Could the yellow gold relfect so much on the diamonds. The place I bought from never has less then near colorless in their diamonds. They do however sell lots of i-1 an 1-2 diamonds which I have accepted. But these were not supposed to be.
I have used Richard Shermans lab, but these don''t command his attention. GIA, and another name brand in Chicago are so costly, it would ridiculous, except for the finist stones to send it a lab. I see people reccommending labs on here when I think the lab costs more than the stone. All in all perplexing appraisl for me. The last one was a tanzanite ring which I think she got right.
Thanks,
Annette

 

[twodoor2]

Unfortunately, labs that have good reputations cost more for a reason, they are precise and use high tech equipment to make a judgement in writing. Taking the stones to stores with G.G.'s are more subjective. You can have varying opinions and some of the G.G.'s, IMO, are not very knowledgable. Also, having a report from the GIA, AGTA enhances the value if you were to ever resell. People would not give the appraisal/report from a Mr. John Doe G.G. for the "Wherever Diamond Grading Lab" much notice. It is only good for insurance replacement cost.

However, that being said, most EXPERIENCED G.G.'s should at least be able to accurately grade a diamond since that is the mostly commonly judged stone. They should be able to tell if a stone is a certain color/clarity without too much disparity on the grading scale. Even I can guestimate, just by looking with a loupe, what a diamond's color/clarity is, and I'm not a G.G.

When you're talking about colored stones, especially some with the newer strange "enhancements", or more exotic stones (anything except ruby, sapphire, emerald, tanzanite), or hard to judge stones such as opals or alexandrite, then it may be beyond the scope of the typical gemologist. There are some gemologists that take mineralology very seriously, and study as much as possible to enhance their knowledge, but again, they have good reputations and it may be reflective of the cost of an appraisal/report.

I would never take my paraibas to be graded by G.G., unless they belonged to a reputable lab, or they had a reputation of knowing colored stones extremely well (as some of the G.G. posters in pricescope). First of all, they might not know what it is. I just answered a thread that had this very example. A pricescope poster took a paraiba tourmaline to a G.G., and she never heard of paraiba tourmaline. I also know more about colored stones than some people in the jewelry business for eons. I just had a jeweler tell me that tourmalines were 8.5 on the Mohs hardness scale, and she's been doing this for 20 years. It's really 7.5, but I didn't want to argue. I brought my demantoid (rare form of garnet) into a jewelry store, again with a person in the business for several years, and she never heard of a demantoid. It's quite discouraging, and that's why I love forums such as these. The people that post here are more knowledgable about colored stones than those that have been selling it, or those that have their G.G.

I think that more and more people are going to be buying exotic colored gemstones with all the shopping channels hawking them left and right. I also think that eventually, if a G.G. wants good business, they will probably need to keep up with the times and get more knowledge of these stones. Hopefully times will change and they will get an attitude that there is more out there than diamonds, rubies, sapphires, emeralds and tanzanite!!

Since you're in the Chicagoland area, I think the G.G.'s with longer experience, in the jeweler's row district should be able to accurately judge your diamonds. I'm not sure about the "enhanced" rubies however.

Good luck with your apprasals.

 

[DiamondExpert]

It sounds like CYA terminology to me. Perhaps the G.G. doesn''t have the equipment/experience/confidence to be more specific. You''re correct that it probably isn''t worth (in $) having a lab. get that info for you.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/15/2007 12:30:16 PM
Author: smitcompton
Two- Door
Thanks for your answer. Yes, I was asking what ''enhanced ruby'' could mean. I just saw these appraisals quickly. If it means heat treated, why not just say so.
I do not agree with another appraisal on a tsavorite garnet ring that the G.G. did . There are 25 pts of small melee type diamonds in the setting. I had two identical rings made for two neices. I had one appraised two yrs ago that was in white gold. My other neice declinced the other ring which is in yellow gold. The first appraisal stated the diamonds were HI in color and si-1-si2 in clarity. This G.G. says the small diamonds are 0-P. They were both 14 kt gold . roumd brillant cut, 90 pts, and 85 pts respectively. How can I get two different appraisal, one less than half the other. I just dont believe this one. Could the yellow gold relfect so much on the diamonds. The place I bought from never has less then near colorless in their diamonds. They do however sell lots of i-1 an 1-2 diamonds which I have accepted. But these were not supposed to be.
I have used Richard Shermans lab, but these don''t command his attention. GIA, and another name brand in Chicago are so costly, it would ridiculous, except for the finist stones to send it a lab. I see people reccommending labs on here when I think the lab costs more than the stone. All in all perplexing appraisl for me. The last one was a tanzanite ring which I think she got right.
Thanks,
Annette

If they cant see the pavilion upside down they cant accurately color grade the melee its just a guess.
As for the ruby if you want an accurate appraisal on them you have too use an expert like Richard Sherwood or one of the gemstone specific labs.
Your run of the mill GG doesn''t have the tools or knowledge to deal with them.

 

[smitcompton]

Dear All,
Thanks for your comments. My apologies to Richard Sherwood who I keep referring to as Richard Sherman. I have used Rich for other stones and found his help invaluable. I will remember Sherwood Forest to help me get it right.
When my friend gets back from vacation I will have her contact the appraiser.
Thanks,
Annette

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi Annette. Many of the rubies coming out of Madagascar are "clarity enhanced" with a glass resin in the surface reaching fractures. Almost all are heated for color enhancement, and quite a few are beryllium diffused for color enhancement.

My guess is the appraiser is referring to fracture filling. The word "enhanced" is often used in this respect.

Richard Sherwood, aka Sherman

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I just ID''d six rubies for a client who purchased them from an overseas dealer over the internet. Two were sold as "Burma unheated", one "Burma, heated only" one "Sri Lankan unheated", one as "Thai, heated only" and one as "Madagascar, heated only".

All six were of Madagascar origin, beryllium diffused.

The interesting thing was that the vendor was selling them for a fraction of what they would have been worth if they were truly of the origin and treatment status he quoted. The client was thinking he had got the "deal of the century", expecting them to appraise for big money.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/16/2007 6:38:03 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I just ID''d six rubies for a client who purchased them from an overseas dealer over the internet. Two were sold as ''Burma unheated'', one ''Burma, heated only'' one ''Sri Lankan unheated'', one as ''Thai, heated only'' and one as ''Madagascar, heated only''.

All six were of Madagascar origin, beryllium diffused.

The interesting thing was that the vendor was selling them for a fraction of what they would have been worth if they were truly of the origin and treatment status he quoted. The client was thinking he had got the ''deal of the century'', expecting them to appraise for big money.

Were they worth what was paid for them?
Thats why I wont buy rubies except from vendors I know and that know the upchain source and also why If I buy an expensive one its going right too you too get checked out.

 

[smitcompton]

Dear Rich et all,
Now that you are responding, these are the same Madagasar rubies I got from thailand a while go. This stone is 2.99 ct wt
. I let my helper friend choose which stone she wanted and I bought a nice 14kt white gold setting. (PD $200.00). The stone was less than $50.00. The appraisal came back $1075.00. The color is nice, clarity shows inclusions. I''m trying to determine if it is BE, which is why I wanted to clarify the enhanced part. I have others that are nicer and paid even less for them.
I returned the burma rubies that you evaluated and after a struggle JTV took them back and even refunded your fees to me. I kept one Burma that I didn''t send to you. I figured the other two were burma so I expect this one is also.
The Madagascar rubies(some) look good. I have a nice round pink ruby that I plan to keep for me. It was very nice to make someone so happy with her new ruby ring at a reasonable price. She went for these appraisals without telling me. I''m picking them apart, not her. It''s been fun.
After the Burma rubies, I decided to cool it so I haven''t bought anything in a year. I hope you are well and have that nice sense of humor still in tact. Thank you,
Annette

 

[pyramid]

SmithCompton Isn't Rich saying though that they were not Burma the ones you have? Maybe you are referring to them as that so that Rich knows which ones you are referring to that were sold wrongly as Burma.

I really think an appraisal of over $1000 for something that cost $200 must be overly inflated and the stones are not worth that much. You have to be careful what you buy and you don't get deals from Shopping channels because their buyers know what they are buying and are not going to get after all their wheeling and dealing with suppliers Rubies that are worth hundreds more than the narrow price they have tied them down to.

I am in the UK and see here on QVC people phoning up all the time that they got an appraisal for a thousand pounds more than they paid and ofcourse by the laws the presenter will say we cannot agree that the stones are worth that but if you want to take your stones to an appraiser do so. They never ofcourse, tell people that there is such a thing as inflated appraisals. Then someone will phone in about a particular diamond ring they are showing and say she paid £179 for it in April and got it appraised for £1400. I really feel bad for these people believing this. Then by the end of the programme that particular ring will be a sell out because others watching think wow, if I pay £179 for that ring it is really worth £1400 even though the presenter says if you buy this ring we cannot ofcourse guarantee it will get the same valuation but it is a lovely ring. Yeah right they won't get the same valuation, not because the person who phoned in got a better ring, but because the appraiser that person went to was not a good appraiser of the caliber Richard Sherwood here is.

An appraisal also depends upon the market I think, I am not qualified in anyway about this, but I think when people are phoning in to the shopping channel they may live in a remote town with one jewellers where everything is going to be more expensive and the appraiser is going to put a higher price on a ring from QVC because it may be of better quality for the money than the local jeweller there is selling due to QVC bulk buying. However I always look at the ring myself and think (I am in a city in the UK), that ring would be maybe £50 - £100 more in a jeweller but I have not seen one yet I would say is worth £1000 more. Ofcourse I am not an appraiser but common sense can tell you sometimes.

Be careful, if you like the stones on shopping channels and feel they are worth the price, which they probably are for what you pay, then fine,, but don't think they are of better quality or more valuable than their screen price. I have a lovely citrine ring I got from QVC, it is worth what I paid the shank is not very thick but worth what I paid, however I would never assume it to be worth anymore than I paid for it because truthfully it is not. I only buy very occasionally from them something I like but I would never go over maybe £250 for an item of jewellery with them. I also hate seeing all these people saying they have like 40 rings when I know they could have got a really nice ring for the price they spent on 40 if they had saved their money in their bank account for a time before purchasing.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Pyramid,
Sorry, guess I wasn''t clear. I sent Burma rubies to Rich last year. The Madagascar rubies are from a different buy. I was just giving Rich the update on the Burmas that he looked at. They were Burma rubies but were sold as unheated but one was heated. The other sold as heated was glass filled. Separate events This is the first time a professional has looked at the Madagascar rubies. Sorry.

Thanks,
Annette

 

[pyramid]

Oh sorry SmitCompton I see now it is different stones.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 7/17/2007 11:46:10 AM
Author: smitcompton
Dear Rich et all,
Now that you are responding, these are the same Madagasar rubies I got from thailand a while go. This stone is 2.99 ct wt
. I let my helper friend choose which stone she wanted and I bought a nice 14kt white gold setting. (PD $200.00). The stone was less than $50.00. The appraisal came back $1075.00. The color is nice, clarity shows inclusions. I''m trying to determine if it is BE, which is why I wanted to clarify the enhanced part. I have others that are nicer and paid even less for them.
I returned the burma rubies that you evaluated and after a struggle JTV took them back and even refunded your fees to me. I kept one Burma that I didn''t send to you. I figured the other two were burma so I expect this one is also.
The Madagascar rubies(some) look good. I have a nice round pink ruby that I plan to keep for me. It was very nice to make someone so happy with her new ruby ring at a reasonable price. She went for these appraisals without telling me. I''m picking them apart, not her. It''s been fun.
After the Burma rubies, I decided to cool it so I haven''t bought anything in a year. I hope you are well and have that nice sense of humor still in tact. Thank you,
Annette

One of the strongest indicators of beryllium treatment is the price of the stone.

If you paid less than $50 for a 2.99 ruby with nice color, it is no doubt beryllium treated.

Thanks for the kind words Annette. I am well, and still working on the sense of humor.