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Engagement Rint Stone Q''s

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t-neck

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
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Hello

I''ve been using PS to help me compare the stone prices of the ones I have been looking at for the past month or two. I am a newbie to the forum though. I have really started to narrow my choices of stones down and I am looking at (2) right now to choose from. I have done so much research and it is starting to drive me nuts! I am beginning to almost stop looking at the stones and just at the certs. I know the certs are important but how the stone looks is really what it comes down to.

Please tell me your thoughts (as most on here have done far more research than me) about the following (2) stones. I want to purchase hopefully, one of these in the next week so I can have it set and propose to my GF by the end of the month.

Stone 1:

EGL (Europe)
.90 Cts
6.29-6.25x3.70
Depth=59.0%
Table Width=59%
Crown Height=13%
Pavilion Depth=42%
Girdle: Medium FAC
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Culet: None
Clarity: SI1
Grain: Nil
Color: E
Fluor: None
Diascript on Girdle ''Premium Cut''
Hearts and Arrows
 
Stone 2:

GIA
6.05-6.09x3.85
.90 Cts
Color: G
Clarity: SI2
Cut: Very Good
Depth: 63.4%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 36.0
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8%
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: STK to THK
Faceted(4.7%)
Culet: None
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Flouresence: None

Ok so both of these stones are gorgeous but my main concern is the EGL vs GIA. I have read so much saying to be wary of EGL ratings and I am aware of that. In person though I honestly feel as if the EGL shows a little better. When put to a white background I can deffinitely see that the EGL (Stone 1) has a better color. Is it comparable to how much better E should be to G I don''t know as I''m not a gemologist, but it is def. a better colored stone.

As far as clarity, I can see the inclusions in each stone and to me the EGL looks a little cleaner but again I revert back to the fact I am not a gemologist. Both are clean to the eye.

I like the fact that the EGL is actually bigger stone (mm). It shows next to the GIA. I feel as though it has more fire also. It is the Hearts and Arrows cut but I''m a little confused by that. If someone would like to explain the advantage that would be great.

Ok, so as you can see I lean a little towards EGL but that is where my worry comes in. In the fact that it is EGL (Europe). Finally, here is the important statistic:

Price Stone 1 (EGL) - $4200
Price Stone 2 (GIA) - $3880

I want this ring to light up the eyes of my GF as much as the stone lights up when the light hits it, but I also want to feel like I got my money''s worth.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure to include everything. Thanks for the help!!!!
 
IMVHO you are paying a high premium for color you will not really see in the EGL cert. If you dropped the color to a G or H, you could improve in other areas like the cut and clarity of the diamond which is very important. You could also get more spread if you stay away from thick girdles. I would personally stay away from EGL certs because they are not as strict as AGS or GIA. Their color grades are usually higher (An H egl stone is actually an I GIA stone).

What is your budget? Maybe some forum members can give you links of stones they recommend if they had a ballpark figure that you are wanting to spend. Picking out a diamond is stressful but try and have fun too :)
 
I would really like to stay between $3700 - $4300 for the stone. I have a setting picked out that is $650. I want to stay in the lower .90''s because that is where I can usually find stones in my price range that have good qualities and that look best in the setting I have selected.

I had a feeling I would get told to stay away from the EGL stone. Any more opinions or links to stones would be great. I''m just worried that if I buy the stone online and then take to jeweler where setting is, I won''t get the setting for $650. I''m sure they take that price down a lot to make you think you are getting a deal only caus they are making so much off the stone.

I am having fun but this is frustrating. So many numbers and statistics and things to look for.
33.gif
 
I posted 2 links. They are much better cut IMO. Same price range. One even has the GIA number laser inscribed on the girdle too which is nice. Both certs are recent too. Blue nile ships fast and 30 day return policy can't be beat.

As for the worry about what a jeweler may say, you say that the diamond was a family heirloom and you had it recertified. I have bought several diamonds online over the years and no jeweler has ever given me a hard time. My current jeweler actually siad he cant beat blue nile prices and said he does not blame me. However, if you are worried just stick to my first suggestion and avoid the online topic all together. 650 for a band is competative. You can go to another jeweler for that price. The economy is tough so do what is best for your pocket book and your soon to be fiance :)
 
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD01441371?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

This one looks very promising too for 3800. It is a medium girdle all the way around. The GIA cert it not up meaning that the stone was just listed. If you email/call blue nile, they will have the report to you very soon to look it over. If you are not sure about a stone, you can always call and have them put them on hold for you. They have held stone for me for over a week lol... Yes, I am biased to blue nile but I have never been disappointed. Good luck!
 
Well, I'm not concerned with what the jeweler will say but more so if I could get the setting for that same price if I didn't buy the stone there. My thoughts are that I think I wouldn't. I assume that the jeweler will take a much greater cut off the setting due to the fact that they make more margin on the sale of the stone. But there lies another problem. Bluenile.com's prices are great but there setting prices seem high. So whatever I save off a stone from BN I lose the savings in the setting.

As you can see, that is the delema I keep running into. Perfect world would be stone from BN and setting from jeweler but I'm not sure that can happen.
8.gif


The setting is from Gabriel & Co. I have the model number but have been unable to find it online from searching google.

Beach, thanks for the help so far. This is why I come to this sight.
 
Go to a jewler and say I am interested in this particualr setting. I may just use a diamond that has been in the family for years. What price for the setting. Get it in writing. Jewelers really dont get people on the bands, it is the diamond like you said. They also know that if they upset you, you will not return for your band or her band later on. I just went to my jeweler yesterday and bought all of my bands from him and not the diamond. I realy doubt they will screw you over as much as you think....
 
Date: 11/9/2008 6:55:33 PM
Author: beach
Go to a jewler and say I am interested in this particualr setting. I may just use a diamond that has been in the family for years. What price fo rthe setting. Get it in writing.
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I have to disagree with this...I don't think it's ever a good idea to lie to a vendor, they are going to know that your super ideal stone with a GIA report from 2007 hasn't been in the family for years. I think it's best to just go in and tell them you are looking at settings and prices and trying to get an idea of what you want, and could they please write down the prices of your favorites so you can comparison shop.

And the margins on diamonds aren't as high as one would think for the vendor...there are a lot of hands it passes through before it gets to the vendor.
 
Can I get the EGL stone appraised before purchase? Or don't jewelers usually allow this? Only cause I think if it appraises at what EGL listed it for it is a good stone and price.

Sorry if it is dumb questions but first time buying a stone.
 
Ok. My point is, just tell them you may not need a stone. It would be nice if vendors were as honest as you think he should be and share their costs.... The botton line is BM vendors costs are almost always higher for exactly the reason you said. The diamond passes many hands.. As for getting an appraisal, they really don't mean anything. They are always inflated.
 
neatfreak,

Any thoughts on the stones I posted or any other advice?

Thanks!!
 
Date: 11/9/2008 7:06:05 PM
Author: t-neck
neatfreak,


Any thoughts on the stones I posted or any other advice?


Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Personally I'd stay away from both the ones you posted. They aren't terribly well cut.

And I'm not in love with Bluenile as a vendor because they have no upgrade policy and their customer service is hit and miss. Also, since you can't see pictures of the stones before you buy, you aren't sure you're getting anything fantastic. But that being said, the stones beach linked to likely would be fine.

This would be my personal choice given your budget. GOG has a wonderful upgrade policy and might even be able to get you the setting you want if you call them. Then they can set it for you and you avoid the whole setting fee/stone not covered by insurance problem:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4956/
 
Date: 11/9/2008 7:03:33 PM
Author: beach
Ok. My point is, just tell them you may not need a stone. It would be nice if vendors were as honest as you think he should be and share their costs.... The botton line is BM vendors costs are almost always higher for exactly the reason you said. The diamond passes many hands.. As for getting an appraisal, they really don''t mean anything. They are always inflated.
Click to expand...

Appraisals do mean a lot if done well. If you paid for a G VS2 an appraiser can tell you if your stone is really a G VS2! And trustworthy appraisers will certainly let you know if the price you paid is fair...the key is you need to find an independent appraiser who does good work. Now THAT isn''t always easy to find.
 
I get what your saying but why chance with one appraisor when you could get an AGS or GIA stone that has multiple people appraise the same stone. Appraisors often tell customer that their stone is low etc... so that they can try and sell them a stone. So many scam artists these days. But if you find a good one like you said, you are okay. IMO that is VERY hard to find
 
Date: 11/9/2008 7:25:28 PM
Author: beach
I get what your saying but why chance with one appraisor when you could get an AGS or GIA stone that has multiple people appraise the same stone. Appraisors often tell customer that their stone is low etc... so that they can try and sell them a stone. So many scam artists these days. But if you find a good one like you said, you are okay. IMO that is VERY hard to find
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A real appraiser shouldn't sell stones. That's why you need an **independent** appraiser (i.e., one who does not sell stones or work in the back of a jewelry store). And the reason is that EGL stones are often a lot cheaper than GIA/AGS stones. If the stone is as represented, then you can save some significant cash sometimes.
 
neatfreak

What are the issues with the cuts above? Not questioning you expertise just looking to learn for myself. They get graded with very good and premium and I thought the percentages looked good based off my research.

What about this stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=4443&ctMin=.85&ctMax=.93&clarity=64&color=24&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=

This is more in line with where I would like to be with price. What about the flourescene on this stone? Any concerns with that?

Just when I think I''m getting close to the end it feels like I start all over again. LOL

I would really like to get some more opinions on the stones I listed and maybe some more recommendations on places to buy.
 
Date: 11/9/2008 7:45:08 PM
Author: t-neck
neatfreak


What are the issues with the cuts above? Not questioning you expertise just looking to learn for myself. They get graded with very good and premium and I thought the percentages looked good based off my research.


What about this stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=4443&ctMin=.85&ctMax=.93&clarity=64&color=24&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=



This is more in line with where I would like to be with price. What about the flourescene on this stone? Any concerns with that?


Just when I think I'm getting close to the end it feels like I start all over again. LOL


I would really like to get some more opinions on the stones I listed and maybe some more recommendations on places to buy.
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That stone would be a good choice too, the fluor shouldn't be an issue. The first stone you listed just has a weird combo of numbers and doesn't have all the necessary cut info, plus it's EGL so likely the color/clarity is off a bit too. The second stone is really deep which means it's not cut well and won't return light well, AND it will face up smaller than it should because a lot of the stone is hiding in the depth. EGL just can't be trusted with cut grading and GIA isn't great either. Unfortunately GIA's "excellent" cut grade leaves a lot of stones that just aren't that great.

Whiteflash is another vendor with a lifetime upgrade policy that is great to work with. Wink at Winfield's Jewelers is a third. And BN certainly isn't bad, I just personally like an upgrade policy and the more personal service you get with a smaller company.
 
Here is Lorelei''s fabulous summary of the ranges to stay in when buying an RB and then as always, evaluate with your own eyes and idealscope/pictures if possible:

The combos for crown and pavillion angles at the steeper and shallower ranges may need further examination.

depth - 60 - 62 ( although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)

table - 54 - 57%

crown angle -shallower 34 - 35% getting a bit steeper = further eval

pavillion angle - shallower 40.5 - 40.9 or 41 getting a bit steeper= further eval

girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.
 
I see that Crown Angle and Pavilion Angle are missing from the EGL cert. Is that what you speak of being missing? You mention EGL and GIA leave a lot to be desired in grading? This is what is killing me in this search. Who can I trust? Is this industry this sly? Should I be looking AGS?

What are the correct percentages I should be looking for for a stone that will give off the most fire and brilliance?

Thanks for all the help to you and beach. Hopefully more will chime in with some advice. This is tough...lol.

EDIT: You beat me to it with your post above. Thanks
 
Date: 11/9/2008 8:09:35 PM
Author: t-neck
I see that Crown Angle and Pavilion Angle are missing from the EGL cert. Is that what you speak of being missing? You mention EGL and GIA leave a lot to be desired in grading? This is what is killing me in this search. Who can I trust? Is this industry this sly? Should I be looking AGS?


What are the correct percentages I should be looking for for a stone that will give off the most fire and brilliance?


Thanks for all the help to you and beach. Hopefully more will chime in with some advice. This is tough...lol.
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Yes, those are the numbers we need for the HCA from the EGL cert, but honestly, I don't know that I would hold out too much hope.

AGS is great. GIA **can** be great, and are very reliable on color/clarity, etc. Their cut grading is just looser. So AGS Ideals are very safe bets. GIA Excellents are sometimes safe bets, but you should run the numbers through the HCA (found under TOOLS above) first, anything that scores below a 2 is worthy of further consideration. As you can see the GIA "excellent" you found scores a 3.7...

And also, a lower score on the HCA doesn't mean it's better as long as it's below 2.
 
Keep posting questions T-Neck. Between all of us neurotic diamond lovers, you should be able to figure things out :) Try and print out a sheet that has AGS 0 specs on it. That should help you stay within a good range or proportions. GIA and AGS overlap, but like neat said, GIA also gets a little looseon the outer ends.
 
I definitely will. I think I am quickly becoming a neurotic diamond lover too! I have looked at so many stones and done a lot of research and still continue to learn. I am just the person that has to know they got a fair deal on something they purchase, and this purchase is more important than most. I think I am going to end up loving this ring, if I can find the right one, as much as she does. That''s important to me.
 
Why doesn''t Good Old Gold list the girdle thickness?
 
Date: 11/9/2008 9:32:15 PM
Author: t-neck
Why doesn''t Good Old Gold list the girdle thickness?
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It should be on the certificate, but most of the time it isn''t a big issue especially with the hand picked stones that GOG has.
 
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