Engagement ring - VS2/G-H 1.5 Help UK

[bob_jam11]

Hi,

I've been shopping around for a ring for the past few months and have considered orderingfrom JA or another US outlet but since I'm buying blind (have no idea what gf wants) I'm reluctant to order in case I need to return/reorder.

I've settled on ordering from 77diamonds because once the VAT and import duty from JA are applied they are pretty competitive.

I'm looking at a minimum of an H color, VS2, GIA, excellent cut, sym and polish, max medium flou round diamond.

I'm currently looking at either this stone

https://www.77diamonds.com/certification_RBCP6SH28B5E.html

Or something a bit smaller but with a better clarity grading like this

https://www.77diamonds.com/certification_RBCPTMJFYU7X.html

My budget for the diamond is around £11000.

I'm worried about getting something a bit bigger (SI1) that turns out not to be eye clean. I've looked at I color stones but they seem a bit warm to me but I didn't have access to the cut information on those stones so that may have had an impact.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Snowdrop13]

I’d speak to your GF before ordering anything online! Why not visit some jewellery stores so she can find out what she really likes? I thought I wanted a solitaire and ended up with a 3 stone, what you think you might like sometimes doesn’t look so great on the hand.

The angles on the second stone look better to me. Both of the stones are coming up at £13000 including the VAT, is that the budget? I would seriously consider buying from the likes of Whiteflash once you’ve worked out what you want, a superideal stone like this one,

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4097143.htm

works out at roughly the same price.

 

[bob_jam11]

I’d speak to your GF before ordering anything online! Why not visit some jewellery stores so she can find out what she really likes? I thought I wanted a solitaire and ended up with a 3 stone, what you think you might like sometimes doesn’t look so great on the hand.

The angles on the second stone look better to me. Both of the stones are coming up at £13000 including the VAT, is that the budget? I would seriously consider buying from the likes of Whiteflash once you’ve worked out what you want, a superideal stone like this one,

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4097143.htm

works out at roughly the same price.

Yeah I put 11k as my budget above accounting for VAT. My overall budget is around £13,000.

I know she would like a solitaire with a classic band so I'm looking at a 6-claw platinum band to set the stone on. I'm just not 100% on the stone.

Should I be looking at AGS certified stones over GIA?

 

[OoohShiny]

AGS000 is a better indicator of cut quality than the wide and variable GIA XXX

I am sure that nowhere in the UK stocks AGS stones apart from the vendors offering Crafted By Infinity stones - if you can get to one of those to see them in person, you will know what an awesome MRB can look like

 

[sledge]

Reject the first larger stone. First, the shallow 33.5 crown is going to favor a little more white light vs rainbow (fire). More importantly that 41.2 pavilion is a bit scary. There are certain angles where things don't work and 41.2 is a tight rope of sorts. No way I'm buying that stone without an ASET and/or idealscope first. And really I don't like the personality of the stone so it's a no either way.

The second stone has better proportions -- 57 table, 62.1 depth, 35 crown & 40.8 pavilion. These fall within ideal range. However, I will caution you the faceting plays a large factor into overall quality. Recently I've seen several 35/40.8 combos that have leakage in the ASET and/or IS images. For that reason I say proceed with caution. No doubt it's the better stone, but I'd still like to see some advanced images to ensure it's okay.

What do you anticipate VAT to be for your specific location? Given the fact you are talking pounds, I just assumed the UK.

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator/

JA calculator shows a loose diamond at 20% VAT, but it jumps up a bit to 23% for a completed ring.

• £13,000 = $17,128
• $17,128 x (1 - 0.20) = $13,702 available to spend

If you decide you aren't stuck to 77 Diamonds, then I like these options:

WF ES 1.562 G SI1 @ $13,292
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095773.htm

What I like here is it gets you to a G color and allows you enough money to pay for VAT. Although US based, WF offers free international shipping and is a quality vendor that is trustworthy and stands behind their products and word.

This particular stone is part of their Expert Selection (ES) program. This stone has some very minor imperfections that makes it miss their A Cut Above (ACA) program. Nice thing here is it's a very near miss, and you get all the same great perks and benefits as if you bought an ACA.

Despite the minor imperfections, the advanced images and video proves & shows us this stone is definitely a performer and worth consideration.

WF ACA 1.527 H SI1 @ $13,099
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011141.htm

Here you bump up to a true hearts & arrow (H&A) stone synonymous with their ACA brand. And the stone is a slightly cheaper as well. But you sacrifice the G for H color. This stone will be a dazzler and is supported by advanced images that proves its excellence.

Also, I might note that if you ignore carat weight for a quick second and look at dimensions then you will notice this stone measures 7.37 x 7.39mm. The G stone measures 7.39 x 7.41mm and those 0.02mm will never be detectable with the eyes! Why? Because of the various angles & depths of each stone.

For fun, the 1.60 H VVS2 stone at 77 Diamonds measures out at 7.44 x 7.47mm. Roughly 0.05mm and again not detectable to the human eye. So while the carat weight may be less, it's important to always look at dimensions.

 

[bob_jam11]

Reject the first larger stone. First, the shallow 33.5 crown is going to favor a little more white light vs rainbow (fire). More importantly that 41.2 pavilion is a bit scary. There are certain angles where things don't work and 41.2 is a tight rope of sorts. No way I'm buying that stone without an ASET and/or idealscope first. And really I don't like the personality of the stone so it's a no either way.

The second stone has better proportions -- 57 table, 62.1 depth, 35 crown & 40.8 pavilion. These fall within ideal range. However, I will caution you the faceting plays a large factor into overall quality. Recently I've seen several 35/40.8 combos that have leakage in the ASET and/or IS images. For that reason I say proceed with caution. No doubt it's the better stone, but I'd still like to see some advanced images to ensure it's okay.

What do you anticipate VAT to be for your specific location? Given the fact you are talking pounds, I just assumed the UK.

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator/

JA calculator shows a loose diamond at 20% VAT, but it jumps up a bit to 23% for a completed ring.

• £13,000 = $17,128
• $17,128 x (1 - 0.20) = $13,702 available to spend

If you decide you aren't stuck to 77 Diamonds, then I like these options:

WF ES 1.562 G SI1 @ $13,292
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095773.htm

What I like here is it gets you to a G color and allows you enough money to pay for VAT. Although US based, WF offers free international shipping and is a quality vendor that is trustworthy and stands behind their products and word.

This particular stone is part of their Expert Selection (ES) program. This stone has some very minor imperfections that makes it miss their A Cut Above (ACA) program. Nice thing here is it's a very near miss, and you get all the same great perks and benefits as if you bought an ACA.

Despite the minor imperfections, the advanced images and video proves & shows us this stone is definitely a performer and worth consideration.

WF ACA 1.527 H SI1 @ $13,099
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011141.htm

Here you bump up to a true hearts & arrow (H&A) stone synonymous with their ACA brand. And the stone is a slightly cheaper as well. But you sacrifice the G for H color. This stone will be a dazzler and is supported by advanced images that proves its excellence.

Also, I might note that if you ignore carat weight for a quick second and look at dimensions then you will notice this stone measures 7.37 x 7.39mm. The G stone measures 7.39 x 7.41mm and those 0.02mm will never be detectable with the eyes! Why? Because of the various angles & depths of each stone.

For fun, the 1.60 H VVS2 stone at 77 Diamonds measures out at 7.44 x 7.47mm. Roughly 0.05mm and again not detectable to the human eye. So while the carat weight may be less, it's important to always look at dimensions.

Do ACA diamonds even at SI1 clarity imply eye cleanness or is the ACA only indicative of the cut and it may still have visible inclusions?

 

[lovedogs]

Do ACA diamonds even at SI1 clarity imply eye cleanness or is the ACA only indicative of the cut and it may still have visible inclusions?

It will say online whether the stone is eye Clean (there's a line that shows it). But note their definition of eye clean, and make sure you're ok with it. You can email them to confirm eye cleanliness from xxx distance (from however close you want it to be clean).

 

[sledge]

Both the WF stones I listed are identified as eye clean.

ACA by itself does not guarantee eye clean but there is a vetting process that would exclude major inclusions that would have a negative impact on light return. As such a good majority are eye clean.

Also as @lovedogs eluded to, the term eye clean is very subjective. A common definition that several vendors including WF utilize is no inclusions visible to the naked eye when looking at the top of the stone with 20/20 vision and good lighting.

If you have above average this definition may or may not work for you. When I was shopping I defined eye clean as no inclusions visible from 6" on the top or sides with 20/20 vision and good lighting.

If your vision is worse, you may loosen that definition.

Whatever you choose, make sure you and the vendor are on the same page.

I might also add that WF owns all their stones and keep them in a vault. Additionally they have certified gemologist on staff. So they can pull a stone in question and analyze it under additional scrutiny to give you more clarity (no pun intended) on the matter.

 

[OoohShiny]

What do you anticipate VAT to be for your specific location? Given the fact you are talking pounds, I just assumed the UK.

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator/

JA calculator shows a loose diamond at 20% VAT, but it jumps up a bit to 23% for a completed ring.

• £13,000 = $17,128
• $17,128 x (1 - 0.20) = $13,702 available to spend

Wait a minute... Is that maths correct?

If 17128 = (100% Cost + extra 20% VAT), is it not the case that 17128 = 120%?

In which case 17128 * (100/120) = $14273?

 

[sledge]

Wait a minute... Is that maths correct?

If 17128 = (100% Cost + extra 20% VAT), is it not the case that 17128 = 120%?

In which case 17128 * (100/120) = $14273?

Yikes you are right. Teach me to multi task and not double check myself, lol.

How I did the math is like they apply a discount in a store.

Base amount - (base amount x % off) = sale price

17128 - (17128 x 0.20) = 13,702

Of course it subtracts more because you are subtracting 20% of a larger initial amount.

Sorry for the confusion. I knew better.

 

[OoohShiny]

Yikes you are right. Teach me to multi task and not double check myself, lol.

How I did the math is like they apply a discount in a store.

Base amount - (base amount x % off) = sale price

17128 - (17128 x 0.20) = 13,702

Of course it subtracts more because you are subtracting 20% of a larger initial amount.

Sorry for the confusion. I knew better.

We'll let you off...



... this time...

 

[sledge]

We'll let you off...



... this time...

Phew...

 

[bob_jam11]

Reject the first larger stone. First, the shallow 33.5 crown is going to favor a little more white light vs rainbow (fire). More importantly that 41.2 pavilion is a bit scary. There are certain angles where things don't work and 41.2 is a tight rope of sorts. No way I'm buying that stone without an ASET and/or idealscope first. And really I don't like the personality of the stone so it's a no either way.

The second stone has better proportions -- 57 table, 62.1 depth, 35 crown & 40.8 pavilion. These fall within ideal range. However, I will caution you the faceting plays a large factor into overall quality. Recently I've seen several 35/40.8 combos that have leakage in the ASET and/or IS images. For that reason I say proceed with caution. No doubt it's the better stone, but I'd still like to see some advanced images to ensure it's okay.

What do you anticipate VAT to be for your specific location? Given the fact you are talking pounds, I just assumed the UK.

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator/

JA calculator shows a loose diamond at 20% VAT, but it jumps up a bit to 23% for a completed ring.

• £13,000 = $17,128
• $17,128 x (1 - 0.20) = $13,702 available to spend

If you decide you aren't stuck to 77 Diamonds, then I like these options:

WF ES 1.562 G SI1 @ $13,292
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095773.htm

What I like here is it gets you to a G color and allows you enough money to pay for VAT. Although US based, WF offers free international shipping and is a quality vendor that is trustworthy and stands behind their products and word.

This particular stone is part of their Expert Selection (ES) program. This stone has some very minor imperfections that makes it miss their A Cut Above (ACA) program. Nice thing here is it's a very near miss, and you get all the same great perks and benefits as if you bought an ACA.

Despite the minor imperfections, the advanced images and video proves & shows us this stone is definitely a performer and worth consideration.

WF ACA 1.527 H SI1 @ $13,099
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011141.htm

Here you bump up to a true hearts & arrow (H&A) stone synonymous with their ACA brand. And the stone is a slightly cheaper as well. But you sacrifice the G for H color. This stone will be a dazzler and is supported by advanced images that proves its excellence.

Also, I might note that if you ignore carat weight for a quick second and look at dimensions then you will notice this stone measures 7.37 x 7.39mm. The G stone measures 7.39 x 7.41mm and those 0.02mm will never be detectable with the eyes! Why? Because of the various angles & depths of each stone.

For fun, the 1.60 H VVS2 stone at 77 Diamonds measures out at 7.44 x 7.47mm. Roughly 0.05mm and again not detectable to the human eye. So while the carat weight may be less, it's important to always look at dimensions.

I've taken your advice on board and I've decided to go with WF. I've already picked the setting.

I've also managed to extend my budget slightly and the wire transfer discount makes a difference. So I can now go up to $15000 for the diamond.

They currently have 5 stones within my search criteria:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4097143.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3925305.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018632.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011141.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905121.htm

Do any of these stones stick out as the one to go for?

Thanks again fore everyone's input. It's been a huge help!

 

[lovedogs]

I've taken your advice on board and I've decided to go with WF. I've already picked the setting.

I've also managed to extend my budget slightly and the wire transfer discount makes a difference. So I can now go up to $15000 for the diamond.

They currently have 5 stones within my search criteria:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4097143.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3925305.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018632.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011141.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905121.htm

Do any of these stones stick out as the one to go for?

Thanks again fore everyone's input. It's been a huge help!

You cant go wrong with the acas from Whiteflash. So personally I'd get the largest eye clean stone I could afford. But none of them are bad at all

 

[sledge]

Here is a comparison view of those 5 stones to make your life a little easier.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4011141,4018632,3925305,4097143,3905121

Although I love the G color of the 1.668 stone, I'd eliminate it as it states "inquire" under the eye clean section and I know that is important to you (as it should be). Looking at the video & clarity plot I think it's easy to see why.

My second least favorite is the 1.676 H SI1. Looking at the video it doesn't look as crisp as some of the other options, but that could just be magnified videos making things look worse than they really are IRL. Still I'd probably ask one of WF's gemologist to pull and test under a variety of lighting conditions. More so I am not a fan of the personality of this stone. It has a 57.3 table and shallow 34 crown paired with a somewhat shallow 40.7 pavilion. I prefer smaller tables and 34.5+ crowns as they tend to throw a little more fire. Also, if I was considering a 34 crown I'd like to see the pavilion a little steeper. In actuality, these proportions are very similar to the stone I bought my fiancee and it is gorgeous but it favors a little more white light than fire. However, having learned a considerable amount about my own preferences and diamonds in general since that initial purpose I would not seek out those particular proportions again. Again, just my preference here. Clearly it meets ACA criteria and the images and video shows it's a performer. On the plus side because of the shallow crown, 60.6 depth and larger table you get a little more spread for the carat weight.

Of the three remaining, I prefer the 1.62 H VS2. It has a slightly smaller 56.2 table (doubtful this difference alone you'd see IRL) but it also has a 34.7/40.8 combo which is quite lovely. Crown height is 15.2% as well. While I do like the slightly chunkier arrows of the 1.527 with the 76 LGF's, the 77 LGF of this stone is actually considered a perfect balance of white light & fire. Overall I think its well balanced and looking at the video it appears nice, crisp and full of fire & liveliness. Coincidentally it also happens to be bigger than the other two. Looking at your initial buying criteria I like the stone because it hits your minimum H color and your preference for VS2 clarity and also the fact you were initially looking at 1.60+ stones. As a result I think this stone parallels with your initial thought process and offers the added benefits of a true H&A stone, awesome upgrade program and top notch customer service. Win, win & win!