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wyered1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
30
I am looking for some unbiased advice about a fair price for a diamond I'm thinking about purchasing from a reputable jeweler for soon to be engagement.

I've seen the diamond and it looks good, eye clean I would call it. Next to VS2 1.5ct diamond I couldn't tell much difference. The guy helping me has shown me many diamonds so far over the past couple of months and I've turned them all down. I think I finally got the message across and he brought me in to see 4 that all met my requirements. (Didn't want EGLUSA unless it was terribly cheap and wanted eye clean with a goal of 1.5 ct. )

I'm attaching the report. The HCA tool here revealed a 1.1. The asking price was 15k. I've negotiated down to about 13.5k with a trade in value staying at their asking price of 15k.

What do you think? I was hoping for a VS2 but mostly because I was being shown EGL SI diamonds that were not eye clean. I can get a VS2 I 1.5ct GIA for about 5k more. The cut grade was VG on that one but it had a 1.3 HCA.

Thanks in advance.
 

Attachments

I would not pay anything close to that for those kind of specs. 15K should get you 1.5 G VS2.
 
Ditto on what the other two PS have commented plus. Table is too big and crown angle to small. Please keep looking or take the suggestion of the stones DS has suggested. JEwelery stores just don't have access to the range of stones that PS vendors do
 
Terribly overpriced and the diamond itself is no prize.
 
Ok. Well let me put more detail so I can ask for your continued advice.

I bought a diamond from them in 2005 that I ended up not using. The diamond purchase price was 6700 and they are giving me that for it. After a platinum pave ring and tax my total is 11k.

I don't expect to be able to match online retailers price. As a business owner I know it Is impossible for a single brick and mortar to match Amazon or online wholesalers. But I don't know what I'll be getting online. I have no idea what it looks like. And usually when something is too good to be true, it is.

So. I put down 5k to reserve the diamond. Being that I'm getting full value for a diamond I can't get otherwise should I continue or back out. If this doesn't work I honestly think they won't be able to find something they can sell me at online price. I'm sure I can get refunded as they haven't taken my trade nor have I completed the sale.

Thanks for any advice. Who knew this was so difficult. Buying a car is easier.
 
We need more information about your original purchase.

Also, you need to post certificate numbers.
 
Ok. The original diamond is EGL 1.27ct, SI3... I'm waiting on the certification for the details. Will post as soon as he gets it to me. Must have misplaced it.

If I remember right it was color H. White inclusions. Can't recall cut but doubtfully excellent.

The cert number for new diamond is in OP. I'll post old one ASAP.
 
But if you buy online, your total would be about 11K for similar diamond plus setting, and you would still have your old diamond, which you should be able to flip for 3000 or so... :confused:
 
The EGL one is probably worth a lot less, too. I would sell that second hand and start over with the new one.

The jewelers whose stones I linked are real jewelers with brick and mortar stores, they are nothing like Amazon. In fact, you will know a LOT more about the stones you buy from them than you will from this local jeweler, because he probably is not offering you idealscope images to prove whether the stone has leakage or not or even magnified images so you can see the inclusions and facet pattern of the stone. These jewelers have stores and do online business, and due to the volume, they offer better prices. That is just a smart business model.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Home/ (video on home page explains their family jewelry store and online presence)

http://www.whiteflash.com/about (text about WF and video of showroom)
 
Engagement Rings Direct has a store front in NY. BGD has a showroom in Houston as well. An James Allen has offices in MD where they see clients by appointment only.
 
You can list your diamond ring on ebay. We can help you with what your listing should say.

And we can find you a nice ring for 11k.
 
wyered1|1394253666|3629808 said:
Ok. The original diamond is EGL 1.27ct, SI3... I'm waiting on the certification for the details. Will post as soon as he gets it to me. Must have misplaced it.

If I remember right it was color H. White inclusions. Can't recall cut but doubtfully excellent.

The cert number for new diamond is in OP. I'll post old one ASAP.
Click to expand...
If they sold you this stone for $6700 in 2005 then they really screwed you blind. ...don't let them do it again!
 
Interesting.

I feel like if I order online I must have a minimum of VS2 because I will have no other way of knowing it is eye clean. Am I thinking wrong?

I am out of the store at 11k right now. If I order online it appears I'm looking at about 13k just for the 1.4 VS2 then 3k or so for a ring I'm looking at, then set and sized cost? . Then I may be able to get 3k for it but might as well trade it for a Rolex at the jeweler. So I'm spending at least 16k instead of 11k+trade.

Granted I see the value is better with that option but I really don't want to part with the funds if I can help it. Need the cheapest way to an eye clean 1.5ct diamond. Am I wrong with prices online.

Good to know they have stores somewhere. I'm in Houston. Never heard of BGD.

Yes, I know they screwed me in 2005. I don't want to be screwed again. That's why I posted.
 
Interesting.

I feel like if I order online I must have a minimum of VS2 because I will have no other way of knowing it is eye clean. Am I thinking wrong?

I am out of the store at 11k right now. If I order online it appears I'm looking at about 13k just for the 1.4 VS2 then 3k or so for a ring I'm looking at, then set and sized cost? . Then I may be able to get 3k for it but might as well trade it for a Rolex at the jeweler. So I'm spending at least 16k instead of 11k+trade.

Granted I see the value is better with that option but I really don't want to part with the funds if I can help it. Need the cheapest way to an eye clean 1.5ct diamond. Am I wrong with prices online.

Good to know they have stores somewhere. I'm in Houston. Never heard of BGD.

Yes, I know they screwed me in 2005. I don't want to be screwed again. That's why I posted.
 
wyered1|1394256661|3629835 said:
Interesting.

I feel like if I order online I must have a minimum of VS2 because I will have no other way of knowing it is eye clean. Am I thinking wrong? Yes

I am out of the store at 11k right now. If I order online it appears I'm looking at about 13k just for the 1.4 VS2 then 3k or so for a ring I'm looking at, then set and sized cost? . Then I may be able to get 3k for it but might as well trade it for a Rolex at the jeweler. So I'm spending at least 16k instead of 11k+trade. I don't think his is right

Granted I see the value is better with that option but I really don't want to part with the funds if I can help it. Need the cheapest way to an eye clean 1.5ct diamond. Am I wrong with prices online.

Good to know they have stores somewhere. I'm in Houston. Never heard of BGD.

Yes, I know they screwed me in 2005. I don't want to be screwed again. That's why I posted.
Click to expand...


http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/ Call and make an appointment. They are by appointment only but have a nice show room.
 
I think I'm going to call tomorrow and see about canceling this and returning my money to the card. Shouldn't have a problem with this right? Anyone with experience? Or was this deposit some ploy to nail my coffin before I'm dead?

Why should I trust the Brian Gaffin guy more? His shop is in a not so nice area of town. But. At least he has one reference.

I'm willing to give it a shot, but could I do this myself? I want to propose end of April. And I've been looking for a diamond with this guy for 2 months. Hate to think I cancel and end up getting screwed elsewhere, and don't even have the trade value.

Why can't someone just sell me what I'm asking for at a fair price and take 1000 or 2000 for their profit margin and let me feel good? What store is that?
 
If you just go to BGD, i'm sure you will be amazed. There is no obligation if you just go. Bring your old one... see if it is a candidate for recut? You could save lot of money... going from 1.2 to 1.4 is not really that big of a difference... or you would be able to sell it for a lot more if it is recut.
 
wyered1|1394258503|3629850 said:
Why can't someone just sell me what I'm asking for at a fair price and take 1000 or 2000 for their profit margin and let me feel good? What store is that?
Click to expand...

Have you tried, I don't know, asking a board full of people who have diamonds as their hobby where to shop? oh wait
 
Brian Gavin is an esteemed vendor and cutter known to sell diamonds that perform amazing visually. Do a quick search on this forum for his reviews and how often his diamonds get recommended.
 
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/

The only diamonds BGD has an upgrade policy for is the signature H & A ones which is important to me. I do not wish to need to pawn or sell a diamond on my own in the future when upgrading. This one is the closest I could find to meeting my needs. It is rated AGS 0 but the HCA tool says otherwise and has a score over 2. So would I be getting a better diamond for the money? It's a little bigger but I don't know if the cut is as good and it's pretty much the same price except I don't think BGD will give me 7 k in trade. Therefore I'll be bringing at least 5 or 6 thousand dollars more out of my pocket for a slightly bigger stone albeit maybe not as pretty.

Any suggestions?
 
wyered1|1394279824|3629916 said:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/

The only diamonds BGD has an upgrade policy for is the signature H & A ones which is important to me. I do not wish to need to pawn or sell a diamond on my own in the future when upgrading. This one is the closest I could find to meeting my needs. It is rated AGS 0 but the HCA tool says otherwise and has a score over 2. So would I be getting a better diamond for the money? It's a little bigger but I don't know if the cut is as good and it's pretty much the same price except I don't think BGD will give me 7 k in trade. Therefore I'll be bringing at least 5 or 6 thousand dollars more out of my pocket for a slightly bigger stone albeit maybe not as pretty.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

That's a nice stone. It'll embarass your EGL stone.

Their upgrade policy also covers their Blue line. Another excellent vendor is Whiteflash.
 
You are throwing good money after bad with your present jeweler. And if I read correctly, a Rolex too???
Please go see Brian and look at his beautiful stones.
Also, forget ct weight look at mm. Your stone current stone may actually be smaller than the BGD stone due to poor cut. Actually you may get a stone at BGD that is smaller in ct weight but because of amazing cut, will look larger and sparkle way more and be a overall way better deal.
I came to the forum several years ago, and have learned this to be very true. An excellent cut stone will blow a larger diamond out of the water! in these parts you learn CUT IS KING!
The other posters have pointed out you can sell your stone on your own, a poster offered to help you word your listing. The jeweler isn't doing you any favors.
Plus please remember you get what you pay for especially in diamonds. No jeweler in his right mind is selling diamonds for 1,000 of dollars leas than they are worth. No businessperson in any business does that.
However the jewelers we recommend here will give you the best possible deal on the best stone you can afford. And lots of legitimate paper to back it up!!
Good luck with your search. And go see Brian.
 
That's a nice stone. It'll embarass your EGL stone.

Their upgrade policy also covers their Blue line. Another excellent vendor is Whiteflash.
Click to expand...

Let's hope it embarrasses a stone that is about 1/5th the value. I don't claim it is a nice stone. But if I can recoup my purchase price out of the jeweler and get a decent deal on a GIA or AGS diamond then maybe I can get away from them next time.

Can someone explain why the diamond I have reserved is subpar? The HCA tool says excellent. The GIA report says excellent. It looked excellent. The little colored magnifier I looked through looked like hearts and arrows to me, for all I know.

I just want to know what about the report in the OP has everyone turned off about this stone?
 
wyered1|1394281719|3629931 said:
Let's hope it embarrasses a stone that is about 1/5th the value. I don't claim it is a nice stone. But if I can recoup my purchase price out of the jeweler and get a decent deal on a GIA or AGS diamond then maybe I can get away from them next time.

Can someone explain why the diamond I have reserved is subpar? The HCA tool says excellent. The GIA report says excellent. It looked excellent. The little colored magnifier I looked through looked like hearts and arrows to me, for all I know.

I just want to know what about the report in the OP has everyone turned off about this stone?
Click to expand...

You paid $6700 for your stone, I paid $4700 for this one. I'll bet my less expensive stone embarasses most any EGL stone out there. Why? Because it's an AGS graded ideal, D, VS-2.

LW-WF-colorflash.jpg

LW-ACA-DirectSun.jpg

LW-topshot-cropped.jpg


Several people above have tried to explain what's wrong with that stone, so I won't repeat them. But I'll say this, GIA's Excellent grade is too lax. It's got a range wide enough to cover stones that really don't look that good at all. AGS 0 grade is much tighter. You can buy any AGS 0 stone sight unseen, and know it's very well cut. The same CAN'T be said for GIA EX.
 
wyered1|1394252913|3629801 said:
Ok. Well let me put more detail so I can ask for your continued advice.

I bought a diamond from them in 2005 that I ended up not using. The diamond purchase price was 6700 and they are giving me that for it. After a platinum pave ring and tax my total is 11k.

I don't expect to be able to match online retailers price. As a business owner I know it Is impossible for a single brick and mortar to match Amazon or online wholesalers. But I don't know what I'll be getting online. I have no idea what it looks like. And usually when something is too good to be true, it is.

So. I put down 5k to reserve the diamond. Being that I'm getting full value for a diamond I can't get otherwise should I continue or back out. If this doesn't work I honestly think they won't be able to find something they can sell me at online price. I'm sure I can get refunded as they haven't taken my trade nor have I completed the sale.

Thanks for any advice. Who knew this was so difficult. Buying a car is easier.
Click to expand...

What I found when dealing with b&m jewelers in western PA is that unless they are one of the AGS jewelers, whatever they stock it a lesser diamond than I could get online. I have bought 2 from Good Old Gold, and have dealt with Brian Gavin to have a pawn shop stone recut. There are no real "deals" unless you can find a Pricescope individual who is selling a AGS 000 or GIA excellent diamond on LoupeTroop or via consignment with GOG, Erica of what used to be Jews by Erica Grace, Pearlman's, Leon Mege, etc.

There are subtle nuances of diamonds that vastly affect the value and price. I gave up even looking at local jewelers because they won't give me the info to make a direct apples-to-apples comp w/ the online stones.
 
wyered1|1394279824|3629916 said:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/

The only diamonds BGD has an upgrade policy for is the signature H & A ones which is important to me. I do not wish to need to pawn or sell a diamond on my own in the future when upgrading. This one is the closest I could find to meeting my needs. It is rated AGS 0 but the HCA tool says otherwise and has a score over 2. So would I be getting a better diamond for the money? It's a little bigger but I don't know if the cut is as good and it's pretty much the same price except I don't think BGD will give me 7 k in trade. Therefore I'll be bringing at least 5 or 6 thousand dollars more out of my pocket for a slightly bigger stone albeit maybe not as pretty.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...


The HCA is just a rough evaluation tool. It can't do an extensive study, and it can't see the diamond. It doesn't like that 40.8 pav angle. If you reduce it to 40.7, your scores would be 1.7, Vg, Ex, Ex, Vg. Almost all diamonds that are modern H&A will get only Vg on spread. That diamond has a steeper crown angle 35.3, which biases it toward fire, and at least a few years ago, it was discussed on here that the HCA has a bias toward shallower stones rather than deeper ones (perhaps because they face up larger?) AGS already looked at it and has "ruled" that the proportions are not detrimental and they graded it 000.

I'd be more concerned about whether it's eyeclean, and is 7.32 x 7.36 x 4.53 enough diameter (spread) for 1.5ct for me. You may have to go over or under the 1.5ct mark. 1.5ct is highly sought for anniversary upgrades. (magical numbers LOL 1, 1.5, 2ct, etc) Decide what diameter you're looking for and then rule out stones less than that. 7.5mm almost has to be closer to a 1.6ct nowadays ,the way most H&A are cut.

Don't fight with or complain to the PS volunteers who are helping. There have been too many b___andcomplain men come on here lately and gripe about how much the diamonds cost, how high the markup must be, how there are no "deals" out there, why even do I "have" to buy an engagement ring, etc. We're all sick and tired of hearing complaints and whining, btw.
 
You are way hung up on the "trade in value" of your old stone. Based on the market price of the new stone, they are giving you exactly nothing for your old one. I have already demonstrated that you should at least break even or come out ahead if you go on your own.
 
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4298300-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-SI2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4298300&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

So is this a better diamond? (Posted above) It's smaller in mm, and it's not in the range of AGS ideal as the one I'm looking at is. But that is how cheap the diamond has to be to get me out the door for 12k, more than I'm already spending.

However you've all convinced me to take a look with Brian Gavin. I'll just tell the jeweler to put it on hold for now.
 
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