Engagement Ring Help

[Matty23]

Hi! Thank you very much to this community for educating me on all things diamonds for the past few months. I started out by knowing absolutely nothing and feel as though I at least know a few things at this point. I am looking to buy an engagement ring in the next few weeks and am very nervous about spending a lot of money to get a dud of a ring.

When I asked my girlfriend a few months ago what her dream ring would be, I found out it would be a 2 carat round diamond. She is from NY and most of her friends and family have rings in this range so that is where it came from. Not knowing anything myself, I was initially shocked at how much this would be after thinking in my head I would be spending around $5k.

She has told me numerous times she would be happy with a ring pop if that is all I could give her but it really means a lot to me to be able to get her dream size of a ring since she will have it forever. We did go out and look at rings for fun at some retail stores but I knew that I was going to be getting one online. I just wanted to see how sensitive she was to colors and inclusions. She said she was more than fine with the 2 carat I colors with an SI1 inclusion rating after looking at them as it was hard for her to tell a difference.

She found a band that she really likes a Whiteflash so I figured I would just get the diamond there as well. Here is a link to the band.

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...tyle-bead-set-diamond-engagement-ring-872.htm

My budget including the engagement band (and the wedding band) is $19,500. Because the band set is $3,395, this leaves $16k for the diamond. I wish I could spring for the Cut Above diamonds but the price for a 2 carat is just too far out of my price range. This leaves me to look at the virtual selection. Because they do not have in-house videos and pictures, it makes me uneasy not knowing what to pick. I know that they will be able to get more pictures when they order it but I would love some help narrowing this down to two or three. I am linking the GIA cert that I found that is under 2 for the HCA tool (I know that this is just to throw the bad ones out). I just really want a diamond that will be sparkly and eye clean (I know I will have to ask them this too). But would anyone be able to tell me if this is not even worth looking at based on the information given? And maybe there would be another one worth looking at instead?

Also- I really wanted to go VS2 instead of SI1 for peace of mind.

Thank you so much!

 

[SimoneDi]

OP, why dont you consider going just under 2ct?

I am not in love with the diamond that you posted, it has a huge table and shallow crown angle.
We usually recommend sticking to the below parameters for optimal performance:
table: 53-58
depth: 60-62
crown angle: 34-35 (up to 35.5 can work with 40.6 pavilion)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41 if the crown angle is close to 34)

This stone matches your budget and it hits 8mm outer diameter. It will absolutely look like a 2ct stone:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm
Staying at just under 2ct allows you to get the 2ct look without paying the premium that comes at crossing the 2ct mark.

If your SO is looking at whiteflash, she is most likely looking at their ACAs, not virtual inventory. Additionally, WF has an extremely generous upgrade policy and you can always potentially upgrade the stone after some time. Virtual inventory stones do not have any of those benefits.

If you want to shop GIA stones, JA, BN and other sites are better places to look as they provide high definition images/videos and sometimes ASET/IS.

 

[Gussie]

Or go with a simple solitaire and put more into the stone. If you buy from virtual inventory, you do not get the benefit of the fabulous wf upgrade policy.

 

[soxfan]

What about a J color ACA? Correct me if I'm wrong, PS'ers but won't a super ideal cut in a J look better than a local jewelers I color stone?

 

[SimoneDi]

What about a J color ACA? Correct me if I'm wrong, PS'ers but won't a super ideal cut in a J look better than a local jewelers I color stone?

Agreed, I only recommended I because his SO requested that. Maybe she starts seeing color at J

OP, perhaps you can talk to your fiancé-to-be and explain that with the budget can get her a just under 2ct I/SI2 or a possible 2ct J ACA.

Or we can help you look at GIA diamonds as well.

 

[soxfan]

Agreed, I only recommended I because his SO requested that. Maybe she starts seeing color at J

OP, perhaps you can talk to your fiancé-to-be and explain that with the budget can get her a just under 2ct I/SI2 or a possible 2ct J ACA.

Or we can help you look at GIA diamonds as well.

Oh I didn't even see that your recommended an I color SimoneDi!

If it were me, I'd call IDJ and see what they can get me for my price. You could get an even bigger stone! But if she wants WF, I'd def stick with WF!

 

[Matty23]

SimoneD

OP, why dont you consider going just under 2ct?

I am not in love with the diamond that you posted, it has a huge table and shallow crown angle.
We usually recommend sticking to the below parameters for optimal performance:
table: 53-58
depth: 60-62
crown angle: 34-35 (up to 35.5 can work with 40.6 pavilion)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41 if the crown angle is close to 34)

This stone matches your budget and it hits 8mm outer diameter. It will absolutely look like a 2ct stone:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm
Staying at just under 2ct allows you to get the 2ct look without paying the premium that comes at crossing the 2ct mark.

If your SO is looking at whiteflash, she is most likely looking at their ACAs, not virtual inventory. Additionally, WF has an extremely generous upgrade policy and you can always potentially upgrade the stone after some time. Virtual inventory stones do not have any of those benefits.

If you want to shop GIA stones, JA, BN and other sites are better places to look as they provide high definition images/videos and sometimes ASET/IS.

Thank you for your reply. That diamond does look nice and I will certainly add that to the top of the list. My SO only looked to find a band that she liked and was not looking at diamonds individually. I have been the only one doing all the searching and researching other than bringing her into a store at the mall just to browse.

CEG: Thanks for your reply as well.
Although the WF upgrade policy is amazing, SO has already said she would have no interest in upgrading due to the sentimental value of the engagement ring. Although it is possible she would change her mind in the future, I do really think she would never want to. So although I want the ACA for the better cut, the upgrade policy really doesn't factor in as much for this reason.

Soxfan: Thanks for your reply.

If this is true, I guess I could look at a J as well. It was just that in the store we went to she said she could see some yellow in a J but not an I so that is what worries me.

 

[Matty23]

Agreed, I only recommended I because his SO requested that. Maybe she starts seeing color at J

OP, perhaps you can talk to your fiancé-to-be and explain that with the budget can get her a just under 2ct I/SI2 or a possible 2ct J ACA.

Or we can help you look at GIA diamonds as well.

I have kept open communication with her this whole time and she trusts me to pick whatever I want. So I guess it is really just me wanting it to be as sparkly and beautiful as possible for her! I know she would be fine if I had to go slightly smaller or with a J color. I just worry about the color because of what I just mentioned above with her noticing at the store.

 

[Matty23]

Oh I didn't even see that your recommended an I color SimoneDi!

If it were me, I'd call IDJ and see what they can get me for my price. You could get an even bigger stone! But if she wants WF, I'd def stick with WF!

The main reason I am sticking with Whiteflash is because of the band. I just thought it would be easier to get the bands and the diamond at the same place. I didn't know if it would be hard to get them separately and then put together somewhere else! I kind of hoped I could make that easier by purchasing all in one place. But if it makes more sense to just get the diamond somewhere else, I suppose I could do that.

 

[Gussie]

Here is my J ACA. I do see a tiny bit of tint from the side in certain lighting, nothing from the top. Super ideal cuts mask color better. If she was ok with an I, she may be ok with a ACA J.

 

[HappyNewLife]

that 1.923 I/SI1 would get my pick as well. Trust me, you want an upgrade policy. One day
sentimentality could go out of the window And if not, you have an amazing fireball for life. It's a win-win.

I have a 2.937ct ACA, so just under the magical 3 carat mark. It's just as big in diameter as a 3ct, but I saved a bunch of $.

Please ask WF to pull that stone, as well as some Js and put them side-by-side in photos for you.

The GIA diamond you posted above is a 60/60 diamond. WF also has an article on 60/60 diamonds. I've had two of these, and they do sparkle nice white flashes, but lack fire (the colorful ones). I now have an ACA and there's just NO comparison to a 60/60 diamond.

 

[HappyNewLife]

oh, but you have to ask about whether the 1.923 is eye-clean

 

[sledge]

Put your money in the stone, and then adjust in the setting. There are several ways to do this:

• Consider a white gold (WG) option
• Consider a more simple solitaire option (super plain is $200-300)
• Consider a pave using smaller stones
• Consider a custom designed/built setting with David Klass (DK) or similar
• Instead of a matching wedding band, consider a plain band option. Upgrade to the matching band later on the 1 year anniversary.

I don't like the 1.923ct for the fact the cert looks dirty, and the WF website says "inquire" as to rather it's eye clean or not. Below is what WF considers eye clean. The fact the site says "inquire" tells me the stone may have issues meeting this criteria. You can put on hold and decide later, but you need their gemologist to pull the stone and evaluate with human eyes on your behalf.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/

The Whiteflash baseline definition of eye-clean is:
No inclusions visible to the naked eye of a person with 20/20 vision when viewing the diamond in the face-up position at a distance of approximately 10 inches under normal overhead lighting .
Distance, lighting and human vision all influence this judgment. There is no universally agreed upon definition of eye-clean in the trade so we developed this one in order to communicate meaningfully with our customers. 10 inches is the ‘distance of most distinct vision’ as defined by the field of optometry. It is also a basis used by the AGS Laboratory in light performance grading, and so this is a logical standard and a practical baseline.
Diamonds graded by AGS and GIA with clarities of VS or above are almost always completely eye-clean by the above standard. On our website diamond detail pages Si clarity diamonds include an icon indicating when the diamond is eye-clean.
*For practical guidance see our page on diamond clarity. For more in-depth information see our page on clarity grading at the lab.

Original WF stone recommended by others:

1.923ct I SI1, 7.98 x 8.03mm, $15,727
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm


Here are some alternates:

1.890ct I SI1, 7.92 x 7.94mm, $16,248
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4008483.htm

1.826ct I VS2, 7.81 x 7.83mm, $16,002
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3925304.htm

2.108ct J VS2, 8.25 x 8.27mm, $17,006
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4013671.htm

1.957ct I VS2, 8.00 x 8.02mm, $18,103
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3653229.htm

 

[Gussie]

I would go for the 2.108 J in a simple solitaire with a dainty pave wedding band. That would be glorious!

ETA - I may be biased, lol!

 

[sledge]

I would go for the 2.108 J in a simple solitaire with a dainty pave wedding band. That would be glorious!

My thoughts too @ceg!

FYI, here are some screen shots using ACTUAL dimensions from the diamonds listed above to give you a reference point.

It takes about 0.20mm difference before most normal human eyes really starts to see a noticeable difference. And then that difference is very, very minor and would probably not be discernible unless comparing against another stone side by side.

There is so little difference that really the 1.923ct, 1.890ct & 1.957ct are really the same size as far as the human eye is concerned. So I compared the 1.923 to the 1.826 and also the 1.923 to the 2.108 as those are the biggest sizes.

 

[Matty23]

Put your money in the stone, and then adjust in the setting. There are several ways to do this:

• Consider a white gold (WG) option
• Consider a more simple solitaire option (super plain is $200-300)
• Consider a pave using smaller stones
• Consider a custom designed/built setting with David Klass (DK) or similar
• Instead of a matching wedding band, consider a plain band option. Upgrade to the matching band later on the 1 year anniversary.

I don't like the 1.923ct for the fact the cert looks dirty, and the WF website says "inquire" as to rather it's eye clean or not. Below is what WF considers eye clean. The fact the site says "inquire" tells me the stone may have issues meeting this criteria. You can put on hold and decide later, but you need their gemologist to pull the stone and evaluate with human eyes on your behalf.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/




Original WF stone recommended by others:

1.923ct I SI1, 7.98 x 8.03mm, $15,727
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm


Here are some alternates:

1.890ct I SI1, 7.92 x 7.94mm, $16,248
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4008483.htm

1.826ct I VS2, 7.81 x 7.83mm, $16,002
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3925304.htm

2.108ct J VS2, 8.25 x 8.27mm, $17,006
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4013671.htm

1.957ct I VS2, 8.00 x 8.02mm, $18,103
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3653229.htm

Thank you for this reply. The only thing is SO picked out the band and that is the one thing she was set on. If it weren't for that I would definitely go cheaper on it. For that reason, it makes the $17k and $18k just out of my price range (I'm already stretching as far as I can). I really do like that J though and wish I could get it. The other two are a little to under 2 ct for my liking.
Thank you for your concerns on the 1.923- I am going to see what they say about it being eye clean.

Edit: I spoke too soon- I see that you added to your comment and maybe the size difference really isn't anything to be worried about. I will take this into consideration as I keep weighing all the options. Thank you for this info!

 

[Matty23]

I would go for the 2.108 J in a simple solitaire with a dainty pave wedding band. That would be glorious!

ETA - I may be biased, lol!

I agree it would look great! As I just stated above... the one thing SO really wanted was the band. She had her heart set on that one after looking at all the popular sites commonly listed on here. It is the diamond part where she is pretty open to me getting whatever I decide!

 

[SimoneDi]

@sledge I am sorry but there is a difference between 1.8 and 2ct. The difference is not that visible from 1.8 to 1.9c but it is visible when you go from 1.8 to 2ct.

I think that it is important to go by what OP’s SO has indicated to be her wants. She doesn’t want a simple solitaire and she doesn’t want pave. She wants a bead set setting with Tiffany style six prong basket.

OP please do put that 1.923 on hold while you are waiting for response on eye-clean. Although my thinking is that if your SO said that she is ok with SI1, she doesn’t care much about clarity, but rather getting a large and white looking diamond.

 

[Matty23]

that 1.923 I/SI1 would get my pick as well. Trust me, you want an upgrade policy. One day
sentimentality could go out of the window And if not, you have an amazing fireball for life. It's a win-win.

I have a 2.937ct ACA, so just under the magical 3 carat mark. It's just as big in diameter as a 3ct, but I saved a bunch of $.

Please ask WF to pull that stone, as well as some Js and put them side-by-side in photos for you.

The GIA diamond you posted above is a 60/60 diamond. WF also has an article on 60/60 diamonds. I've had two of these, and they do sparkle nice white flashes, but lack fire (the colorful ones). I now have an ACA and there's just NO comparison to a 60/60 diamond.

Thank you very much for your reply. This is helpful information and is pushing me towards the smaller ACA. I will have them see if it is eye clean or not.

 

[Matty23]

@sledge I am sorry but there is a difference between 1.8 and 2ct. The difference is not that visible from 1.8 to 1.9c but it is visible when you go from 1.8 to 2ct.

I think that it is important to go by what OP’s SO has indicated to be her wants. She doesn’t want a simple solitaire and she doesn’t want pave. She wants a bead set setting with Tiffany style six prong basket.

OP please do put that 1.923 on hold while you are waiting for response on eye-clean. Although my thinking is that if your SO said that she is ok with SI1, she doesn’t care much about clarity, but rather getting a large and white looking diamond.

I am definitely checking on the eye clean for starters with the 1.923. The main thing with the clarity is just not being able to notice anything. So if it is indeed determined to be eye clean, I think it won't be an issue!

 

[SimoneDi]

I am definitely checking on the eye clean for starters with the 1.923. The main thing with the clarity is just not being able to notice anything. So if it is indeed determined to be eye clean, I think it won't be an issue!

OP, eye clean is different for everyone. Have WF give you their opinion, but maybe also show a picture to your SO. She might not care and she will be the one wearing the ring.

 

[kindred]

If your girlfriend can see color in a GIA or AGS J, I would stick with an I color. I would put a hold on that 1.923 ct. right away and ask them whether it is eye clean.

 

[msop04]

@Matty23, can you post the link to the setting and band she wants? I would be all for a J color DEPENDING on the make of the setting's basket. I had a 2.43 ct GIA J, and it looked plenty white from the top, but I believe the side view would've been too much for me if that view were easily seen. I now have a 3.33 ct I that is white as can be! I would stick with a well cut stone from the virtual inventory in an I color with the largest DIAMETER (notice I didn't say carat, because the eye cannot see the weight, only the size). That said, if you feel like you need to dip in to J color to get the size she wants, I would strongly advise you choose an in-house stone that a WF rep can vet for you as a "high" J... and some fluorescence would help with the color as well.

ETA: I'm not that color sensitive, but J is when the tint starts to become noticeable from the side to my eyes... tint is not a bad thing, she just has to be okay with it.

Oops! I just saw where you posted the link to the setting. Sorry!

 

[msop04]

@sledge I am sorry but there is a difference between 1.8 and 2ct. The difference is not that visible from 1.8 to 1.9c but it is visible when you go from 1.8 to 2ct.

I think that it is important to go by what OP’s SO has indicated to be her wants. She doesn’t want a simple solitaire and she doesn’t want pave. She wants a bead set setting with Tiffany style six prong basket.

OP please do put that 1.923 on hold while you are waiting for response on eye-clean. Although my thinking is that if your SO said that she is ok with SI1, she doesn’t care much about clarity, but rather getting a large and white looking diamond.

I agree with @SimoneDi... there will be a visual difference in the 1.8 and 2 ct. I would focus more on the face up size (diameter) and try to get into the 8.0 - 8.2 mm range.

Like @HappyNewLife mentioned... sometimes going just below the magical 2 ct mark will give you the same or even a little more diameter while saving a lot of cash!

 

[SimoneDi]

@Matty23, can you post the link to the setting and band she wants? I would be all for a J color DEPENDING on the make of the setting's basket. I had a 2.43 ct GIA J, and it looked plenty white from the top, but I believe the side view would've been too much for me if that view were easily seen. I now have a 3.33 ct I that is white as can be! I would stick with a well cut stone from the virtual inventory in an I color with the largest DIAMETER (notice I didn't say carat, because the eye cannot see the weight, only the size). That said, if you feel like you need to dip in to J color to get the size she wants, I would strongly advise you choose an in-house stone that a WF rep can vet for you as a "high" J... and some fluorescence would help with the color as well.

ETA: I'm not that color sensitive, but J is when the tint starts to become noticeable from the side to my eyes... tint is not a bad thing, she just has to be okay with it.

This is what she wants: https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...tyle-bead-set-diamond-engagement-ring-872.htm

And the matching band I am assuming..

 

[msop04]

Okay, so having looked at the style of setting she wants, I would absolutely stick with an I color. Even if you can't get an ACA, it's very possible to find a stone in virtual inventory that just missed the "ACA mark" by a bit. It will still look amazeballs!

 

[msop04]

This is what she wants: https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...tyle-bead-set-diamond-engagement-ring-872.htm

And the matching band I am assuming..

Sorry! I just noticed the link in the very first post...

 

[sledge]

Thank you for this reply. The only thing is SO picked out the band and that is the one thing she was set on. If it weren't for that I would definitely go cheaper on it. For that reason, it makes the $17k and $18k just out of my price range (I'm already stretching as far as I can). I really do like that J though and wish I could get it. The other two are a little to under 2 ct for my liking.
Thank you for your concerns on the 1.923- I am going to see what they say about it being eye clean.

Edit: I spoke too soon- I see that you added to your comment and maybe the size difference really isn't anything to be worried about. I will take this into consideration as I keep weighing all the options. Thank you for this info!

Yes, definitely LOOK AT DIMENSIONS! Carat weight is deceiving. You have to remember carat weight is derived by taking both the length (L) and width (W) measurements from the horizontal plane and multiplying them by the depth (D) in the vertical plane.

That said, some of the weight is eaten up in the vertical plane that you never see. This is why there is hardly any visual difference between stones that are SIMILAR in carat weight.

When I bought my girl's diamond, I was trying to decide between two stones and actually chose the lesser carat weight (yet it had larger L x W dimensions). Very minor differences, but nonetheless, larger even though it had less weight. That had to do with a variation on angles, table size, etc.

I agree it would look great! As I just stated above... the one thing SO really wanted was the band. She had her heart set on that one after looking at all the popular sites commonly listed on here. It is the diamond part where she is pretty open to me getting whatever I decide!

Please reach out to DK and get a quote for him to build the ring. DK's quality is superb and his pricing is very, very reasonable.

Depending on his response, it may put you in budget for the bigger J VS2!

@sledge I am sorry but there is a difference between 1.8 and 2ct. The difference is not that visible from 1.8 to 1.9c but it is visible when you go from 1.8 to 2ct.

I think that it is important to go by what OP’s SO has indicated to be her wants. She doesn’t want a simple solitaire and she doesn’t want pave. She wants a bead set setting with Tiffany style six prong basket.

OP please do put that 1.923 on hold while you are waiting for response on eye-clean. Although my thinking is that if your SO said that she is ok with SI1, she doesn’t care much about clarity, but rather getting a large and white looking diamond.

Agree about putting the 1.923 on hold. It's a good choice, assuming it's truly eye clean.

In fairness @SimoneDi, if we go by the OP's SO wants, the 1.923 isn't acceptable either as it's not > or = 2 carats.

More to the point, I never implied the 1.826ct was the same size as a 2 carat stone. I said, and stand behind, there is a very, very minor difference between the 1.826 and 1.923 stones. If the 1.923 doesn't work because of eye clean reasons, the 1.826 is still a good option that gets him CLOSE to budget and size preference and gives him VS2 clarity which he prefers. Assuming the 1.890 stone is eye clean, it is even closer to the 1.923 stone size although it drops him to SI1 clarity.

Today there is not anything closer to the 2 carat range in the OP's price range than the 2.108 J that I already posted. Dimensions on it are slightly larger than a true 2 carat, although the differences between a 2.02 ct and 2.108 carat would be minimal as well.

Either way, so that no further assumptions are made concerning size I am sharing another screen capture showing the worst case size differences of the actual dimensions of the 1.826 stone and the average dimensions of a 2 carat stone. However, to be even more transparent, here is what diamdb kicked back as the dimensions:

1.826ct = 7.81 x 7.83 x 4.84
2.000ct = 8.19 x 8.19 x 4.94

As we can all clearly see, there is a size difference. I would prefer the larger stone myself, and when compared side to side I do believe it's significant. However, if budget was killing me, I could live with a 1.826, 1.923 or 1.890 carat stone and be rather happy.

 

[Matty23]

If your girlfriend can see color in a GIA or AGS J, I would stick with an I color. I would put a hold on that 1.923 ct. right away and ask them whether it is eye clean.

Thanks for your reply. I am waiting to hear back on this now!

 

[sledge]

@Matty23, can you post the link to the setting and band she wants? I would be all for a J color DEPENDING on the make of the setting's basket. I had a 2.43 ct GIA J, and it looked plenty white from the top, but I believe the side view would've been too much for me if that view were easily seen. I now have a 3.33 ct I that is white as can be! I would stick with a well cut stone from the virtual inventory in an I color with the largest DIAMETER (notice I didn't say carat, because the eye cannot see the weight, only the size). That said, if you feel like you need to dip in to J color to get the size she wants, I would strongly advise you choose an in-house stone that a WF rep can vet for you as a "high" J... and some fluorescence would help with the color as well.

ETA: I'm not that color sensitive, but J is when the tint starts to become noticeable from the side to my eyes... tint is not a bad thing, she just has to be okay with it.

Oops! I just saw where you posted the link to the setting. Sorry!

I really think there should be a sticky or FAQ or something explaining this in detail. So many people seem to NOT understand this point about size.

Although I agree it sounds better to say 2 carat instead of 1.8xx or 1.9xx carats.