Hi Alexis, that really just plain SUX. I think it is at least time to post their details here - and I am Not saying that to be sensational, but as I mentioned earlier this site gets alot of traffic. There are tons of mbrs and thousands of "lurkers" at any one time.
This, to me, is the true sticky point in this whole mess. Their statements about the "GIA" certificate are ,as Neil pointed out, ambiguous and may indeed accurately reflect their interpretation of the situation: they had a graduate GIA gemologist do the color rating etc. prior to putting the stone on sale originally. Since you never asked them to show you the TRU GIA grade report, they were never actually caught in this lie, and so there is no real way to prove it was indeed a lie. Then, they provided and EGL cert that you deemed acceptable. Where this is sticky is that EGL indeed confirms the grading to reflect what you bought (or at least close enough for your liking). The fact that the real GIA diagrees with this grading is probably moot from a legal standpoint, and perhaps even from a better business standpoint. Many jewelers sell diamonds with grading reports from labs NOT GIA or AGS... and those reports are "known" around these parts to be softer in color grading and often in clarity grading too. But the jeweler can say, "We think EGL is accurate! It is not our fault that GIA said differently. EGL graded it as we represented it!" And to be totally honest, they are correct in this assertion.Date: 10/27/2008 9:16:31 AM
Author: denverappraiser
The other explanation is that you agreed to accept the grading opinions of EGL-International as an acceptable substitute for GIA in order to do your deal more quickly and, based on this agreement, that’s what they delivered. Frankly, it's a pretty good argument. I would hold in check the fingerpointing and threats of lawsuits and public embarrassment and appeal to their sense of good customer relations. You're unhappy, you've got a good reason to be unhappy, and it would sure be nice of them to fix it. Please.
You can always raise the volume later if that doesn't work.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Date: 10/31/2008 9:34:32 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Date: 10/27/2008 9:16:31 AM
Author: denverappraiser
The other explanation is that you agreed to accept the grading opinions of EGL-International as an acceptable substitute for GIA in order to do your deal more quickly and, based on this agreement, that’s what they delivered. Frankly, it''s a pretty good argument. I would hold in check the fingerpointing and threats of lawsuits and public embarrassment and appeal to their sense of good customer relations. You''re unhappy, you''ve got a good reason to be unhappy, and it would sure be nice of them to fix it. Please.
You can always raise the volume later if that doesn''t work.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
This, to me, is the true sticky point in this whole mess. Their statements about the ''GIA'' certificate are ,as Neil pointed out, ambiguous and may indeed accurately reflect their interpretation of the situation: they had a graduate GIA gemologist do the color rating etc. prior to putting the stone on sale originally. Since you never asked them to show you the TRU GIA grade report, they were never actually caught in this lie, and so there is no real way to prove it was indeed a lie. Then, they provided and EGL cert that you deemed acceptable. Where this is sticky is that EGL indeed confirms the grading to reflect what you bought (or at least close enough for your liking). The fact that the real GIA diagrees with this grading is probably moot from a legal standpoint, and perhaps even from a better business standpoint. Many jewelers sell diamonds with grading reports from labs NOT GIA or AGS... and those reports are ''known'' around these parts to be softer in color grading and often in clarity grading too. But the jeweler can say, ''We think EGL is accurate! It is not our fault that GIA said differently. EGL graded it as we represented it!'' And to be totally honest, they are correct in this assertion.
It stinks to find out later you ''overpaid'' for an item, and it stinks to find out that GIA is tougher in their grading than EGL. It also stinks to find out that jewelers refer to ''GIA certificates'' and actually may mean that a graduate GIA gemologist in-house graded it. It also stinks to look back and think, ''Man I should have waited to see the real, reputed GIA report!'' Certiainly there was some poor busines practice here and that should be pointed out the consumers. But as to whether or not you have a legal leg to stand on re: pursuing a refund... that is another issue and I suspect that you may not have enough evidence of true fraud to pursue anything.
I''m so sorry that this has coloured your perception of your e-ring! I too have spent more money that I should on goods that, had I sent them to GIA, would most definitely not match the cert I was given be a smaller grading lab... but the problem is that when I bought it, I accepted the cert as proof of my purchase. Siggghhhh live and learn, I am sure that, like my diamonds, yours is beautiful and you may just need to accept it for what it is... over time the sting will dissipate.
ETA I am not a lawyer, this is just how I persoanlly would interpret the situation
It may be worth pursuing if you can get all your documentation in order. My worry is about documenting their statements about the GIA grading report, and whether they can be held accountable for your interpretation of those statements (i.e., is is crystal clear in the written records that they were saying there is a GIA lab report etc and not just saying something less concrete about a GIA certificate). I also worry about how long this will take to resolve and the stress and aggravation and cost of lawyer fees (if that applies)! I geuss you have to weigh everything before going ahead, but it sounds promising! Good luck!
Date: 10/31/2008 10:38:40 AM
Author: swissdiamond
Hi Alexis, I am sorry that something as beautiful as an engagement ring now holds such negative feelings for you due to your interactions with the particular vendor.
I am more of a lurker than a contributor to this website...but I had to post. As my screenname implies, I am in Switzerland, in Geneva. I love diamonds, I love looking at and of course buying them!Having gone through the engagement process two years ago, I get many people (colleagues, friends, friend''s of friends) asking me questions on diamonds and where to shop.
I would be very interested to know which jeweller this is, not for sensationalism or curiosity but because what I have read in this post so far is appalling, their customer service disgusting...I feel that I would not like to do business with people who treat customers this way....and of course now have some doubts on some purchases I have made from a certain store in Geneva...
It seems that there is some issue on GIA certificate or ''certified'' (which I am not an expert on) that may let them off the hook on some legal technicality but I feel that they were dishonest and misrepresented the diamond to you guys. Their reaction to your situation speaks volumes of the kind of company they are. If you don''t feel comfortable divulging the name, could you give a hint of where and the first letter of the shop??
I wish you the best. I don''t know much of the legal system so cannot be of help but wanted to offer my encouragement and internet support. I hope it gets sorted quickly. Having lived now in Geneva for over 10 years, I can tell you that even in the most upscale shops, customer service is weak compared to what we are used to in the US, UK...
(Arrêt du Tribunal fédéral du 25 août 1999, 4C.236/1999)
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