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Engagement Ring Diamond Priorities on a Modest Budget

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Superangel

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
7
Hi everybody,

This is my first post, so please be gentle!

I'm looking for an engagement ring diamond, but I don't have a huge budget. While I don't want to cut corners, I also don't want to be paying extra for something I won't be able to appreciate, so I really need your help!

So far I've been looking for something like the following:

  • Shape: Round Brilliant
  • Size: 0.45-0.70ct
  • Cut: Ideal
  • Color D-F
  • Clarity: VVS1-VS2
  • Budget: Ideally around US$2,000 for the diamond, but I could stretch to $2,750 for something special.

My main questions are:

  1. Are cuts like True Hearts, A Cut Above etc. worth the extra? I was just browsing WF and found this one which looks beautiful to me, but is 'only' graded as excellent. Am I right to ignore these branded cuts and just stick to ideal/excellent grades?
  2. Given that 'cut is king', and I know I won't get a huge carat for my budget, would I better trading off color or clarity in order to get a better price? So far I've been prioritizing color at the expense of a little clarity, but I don't know if this is a wise choice.

I knew nothing about diamonds until very recently, and I'm still rather confused by it all, so I'd be really grateful for any advice you could offer.

Many thanks in advance!
 
That WF stone is gorgeous! If you want a bigger stone drop to GH color.
 
Well if you have a tight budget you are on the right track to work with one of the PS vendors. If you like that stone from WF speak with one of the reps who will pull the diamond and discuss it with you.
Best of luck
 
Cut first. That's what makes a diamond sparkle. And sparkle is why you buy a diamond. If only the other three Cs mattered we would all have D IF 6 ct CZs on our finger!

Color is subjective. However you could easily go down to an I in your price range and still have a stone that looked great and faced up white.

Clarity is what you want it to be. Do you want to be able to SAY you have a high clarity diamond? Or do you want a diamond without viable inclusions when you wear it? If you want the former then go for it. If you want the latter drop down to vs2, si1. Because in a round you can go that low and still easily find eye clean diamonds.

Carat is what you can afford after you compromise on the above.

If i were you and were preparing to propose to someone who values size FIRST? Shop for ideally cut stones. But not necessarily H&A. That's not always required. Get an I and get it eye clean. As low in clarity as you are comfortable.
 
I am going to tell you that your requirements need to be adjusted.

I would look at G-H SI1 stones with ideal light return. And I'd be looking at GIA as well as AGS stones. I would not pay for an E VS1 stone. It's just not a good value for your budget.

I would buy this one: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.626-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104068959032 Gorgeous 0.626 G SI1 Signature Blue Round. Good size. Budget friendly. AGS0 light return. $1,779

Another option:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.62-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-280526 HCA 1.8 get an idealscope image. $2,140. But I would buy the BGD blue.
 
How about this 0.636 F SI1 ACA for $2467: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043074.htm?source=pricescope
It's still in your color range, guaranteed to be eye clean and within your budget.

ETA: Here's another one! 0.627 F SI1 ACA for $2372: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043078.htm?source=pricescope

And another 0.6 H VS2 ACA for $2372 also: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045721.htm?source=pricescope
 
You've got some smart options here! Good luck!
 
You set your priorities. Only you can say how much color and clarity you are comfortable with. Some people are bothered by even a little bit of tint visible only under select conditions. Some people want a flawless diamond, some people are driven crazy by any little visible speck and once they find it, they never stop staring at it.

Whiteflash draws a line for their premium diamonds. Where ever they draw the line, there's a stone just above the line and a stone just below the line. You can't tell these two stones apart without special equipment.

On the other hand, there's a stone way below the line. You can tell that one apart. Somewhere between Whiteflash's cutoff and the worst stone ever, there's your own personal tolerance.

I think the answer is that the stone you looked at will not be visibly different from the premium stones. Whether or not it bothers you that the hearts could have been a bit nicer or whatever is up to you.
 
These are my priorities, from most to least important:
cut
color
clarity

The cut, everyone can see immediately. Put a top cut next to an average one, and everyone can see the difference. When you look at the ACA or the Brian Gavin diamonds, you are assured of top cut. Brian Gavin used to be at Whiteflash and he set at least the priginal criteria for which stones make the ACA grade.

Color is going to be the next most noticeable thing. Some people are more color sensitive than others. But I think you'd be safe with even a G or H, unless you have some personal preference or cultural requirement for a colorless stone. The G color grade is what many jewelers get their wives, is what was said here on PS many years ago.

Clarity is where I personally can make huge compromises. I don't need totally eye clean from all angles and in all lights and at all angles. A discrete inclusion that hides so well that you have to look for it is fine with me. A big black blob or a spray of "peppers" is not, haha. I can go down to SI2 and I1 and not be bothered. Not all people feel that way. SI1 might be the cutoff for them.

eta: Settings: Some women want a designer setting or a platinum setting. And that setting + a decent size diamond will cost more than the budget allows. In that case, I suggest maxing the budget on just the center diamond, and setting it into something nice but mass-produced and not expensive. Then either the gal buys the designer setting herself, or you two buy it sometime down the road when the budget allows. It was unheard of at the time, but I bought the setting for my engagement ring, for the reason quoted above. I didn't mind. It worked out well, actually, because I received a nice 5.8mm round diamond for my e-ring, and then in about a year when I had studied designs and tried rings on and had thought it through, I had the setting made. Settings can always be "redeployed" for a colored gem, or sold.
 
Thank you all so much for your insights and for those who posted links too; I'm so grateful :)

Having read your thoughts and looked at the alternatives, I feel more comfortable lowering my expectations for color and clarity without worrying that I'm wasting my money. I've never spent so much on a single purchase before, so I really appreciate your guidance in helping me select something worthwhile.

Many thanks again!
 
Another interesting thing about diamond colour is that it becomes increasingly noticeable as size increases.

This means you may feel comfortable going to an I in colour...without feeling like you are compromising at all!!
I know that hearts on fire advertise their use of J colour diamonds in their preset jewellery... and that is working from their in house grading system lol.

If you can see GIA graded stones IN PERSON you will feel a lot more comfortable wrt to your colour tolerance. Also, some people suggest a halo as a means of covering the sides and reducing the 'issue' of a lower colour stone. I guess bezels could do the same. I'm not sure what you are planning on doing with a setting or setting budget, just throwing these thoughts out there for your consideration.
Of course, halos are also celebrated for their massive impact on the percieved size of your diamond as well. Solitaire settings are of course much cheaper though. Something to consider for the years ahead, perhaps. :)

Also, there is nothing to fear from SI stones. I actually have two SI2 stones that are beautifully eyeclean. (They were both selected by a merchant with many, many years experience in the game.)

Yes, you should pick carefully - or rely on the knowledge of someone with experience - but it is quite possible to find SI2 stones which are genuinely beautiful. You need not settle for a stone with a dark inclusion or a glaring mark to get to SI2, that is for sure.

But that may take a degree of searching, or a high degree of trust with your merchant, and I could see that worrying about it might take the fun out.

The biggest jump in price is from SI to VS. There sometimes can be relatively little difference between SI 1 and 2 in terms of the chart, as they are degrees of the same grade. SI2 is more likely to be across the middle of the stone. Depending on how invisible the inclusion is to unaided vision, this might not be a problem whatsoever.

Anyway hope you are enjoying this experience, and all the best with your upcoming engagement!! *so exciting* :appl:
 
Superangel|1390563719|3600134 said:
Thank you all so much for your insights and for those who posted links too; I'm so grateful :)

Having read your thoughts and looked at the alternatives, I feel more comfortable lowering my expectations for color and clarity without worrying that I'm wasting my money. I've never spent so much on a single purchase before, so I really appreciate your guidance in helping me select something worthwhile.

Many thanks again!
Click to expand...

I think you made a good choice! :bigsmile:
 
ChristineRose|1390502786|3599591 said:
I think the answer is that the stone you looked at will not be visibly different from the premium stones. Whether or not it bothers you that the hearts could have been a bit nicer or whatever is up to you.
Click to expand...

This is really good advice. Diamond people are v.v.v. finicky types and the teensiest difference is measured and then labelled.
You need beautiful, graded excellence, but you don't necessarily need the total blue-ribbon creme de la creme when a very very slight relaxation of the standards would net you a result more suitable overall.

I would definitely run the measurements through the 'HCA" (in the tools section at top right, first stop on the drop down menu).

As a lay person, I think that's a great and easy way to see whether the diamond you are looking at is a dog of an Excellent or an Excellent Excellent!! (you're looking for a score less than 2).

There is one other aspect that I would consider, although I don't know if you are able to factor this in. Would you be able to go with a merchant that offers a reasonable upgrade policy that you can work with? I feel merchants that are prepared to offer a reasonable upgrade policy are really standing behind their diamonds, so you know they are fully vetted and it kind of takes the pressure of a bit (well, it did for me lol).
 
jramy278|1390494841|3599504 said:
How about this 0.636 F SI1 ACA for $2467: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043074.htm?source=pricescope
It's still in your color range, guaranteed to be eye clean and within your budget.

ETA: Here's another one! 0.627 F SI1 ACA for $2372: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043078.htm?source=pricescope

And another 0.6 H VS2 ACA for $2372 also: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045721.htm?source=pricescope
Click to expand...

How are you finding these ones that aren't showing as available yet?
 
Gypsy|1390449874|3599217 said:
I am going to tell you that your requirements need to be adjusted.

I would look at G-H SI1 stones with ideal light return. And I'd be looking at GIA as well as AGS stones. I would not pay for an E VS1 stone. It's just not a good value for your budget.

I would buy this one: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.626-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104068959032 Gorgeous 0.626 G SI1 Signature Blue Round. Good size. Budget friendly. AGS0 light return. $1,779

Another option:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.62-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-280526 HCA 1.8 get an idealscope image. $2,140. But I would buy the BGD blue.
Click to expand...

These options suggested by Gypsy are the best value for money choices that you could make. That first BGD diamond is amazing and only $ 1,779. This allows you a bigger budget for a beautiful setting as well... ;))
 
First off, good luck in your selection!

I am no expert by any means, but I recently just finished my engagement ring purchase and did quite a bit of research over the last couple of months. I would recommend dropping to a H color, VS2 or SI1 clarity (you can find many SI1 stones that are eye clean and it will save you a lot of money). BUT, try to buy a diamond that has faint to medium fluorescence. This will drop the price of the stone, but it will make the diamond appear whiter than an H color (It would probably look like a F or G color to the naked eye). Flurorescence isn't a bad thing in a diamond, as long as it does not give a milky/oily look to it. Overall, it would save you money and you could even find a little larger stone for the same price as what you were looking for in the first place. Hope this helps!
 
Andelain|1390575504|3600205 said:
jramy278|1390494841|3599504 said:
How about this 0.636 F SI1 ACA for $2467: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043074.htm?source=pricescope
It's still in your color range, guaranteed to be eye clean and within your budget.

ETA: Here's another one! 0.627 F SI1 ACA for $2372: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3043078.htm?source=pricescope

And another 0.6 H VS2 ACA for $2372 also: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045721.htm?source=pricescope
Click to expand...

How are you finding these ones that aren't showing as available yet?
Click to expand...

Andelain, I just used the PS search engine, but changed it to show all instead of only in house. Maybe that helped?!

ETA: OP, the BGD stone that Gypsy linked is absol. the best value for money! I included the other WF ACAs to help answer some of your other questions in your original post (compromising on color/clarity etc.)
 
Here is my caution about tint in diamonds: Tint is something that you can train yourself to see. A typical colorless CZ is a D color in diamond. "I" color range is where most people can start to see tint. Back when I got engaged, I didn't even notice tints in diamonds. The e-ring I received was my first experience with diamonds. A bit later, I bought an antique Old European Cut stone that never looked anything but colorless to me, until after I found Pricescope, got really interested in diamonds, and started to study what I had. My OEC is graded I color, but it also has either medium or strong blue fluorescence. Face-up, that diamond is always white, bright white. But after I studies diamonds, I agree that its slight vanilla-white tint is apparent from the side but I just never noticed it. It's very slight, and I don't object to it.

But the J color range is where I start calling diamonds "warm." J is too tinted for many people, and although there are many people onPS who would be happy with a large J, there are many people who think a J or K is too tinted for an engagement ring. J is a wider range, and there are some Js that are close to I, some in the middle of the range, and some that are much closer to K. And grading is a bit subjective, so two graders could disagree on the borderline J/K and one might actually give it a K.

Also, what lab graded it is important. GIA is the strictest on color, AGS is a bit softer, and EGL can overinflate the color by two grades. Just be aware of that when purchasing online. This is why I like to purchase in-house diamonds from a vendor already who has them there to look at, as opposed to buy a stone that has to be called in from a cutting house or wholesaler. If the vendor has the stone there, they can tell you what they see, so far as amount of tint compared to a colorless stone.

Even though I can see tints now, lol, I am not biased against them. I am still happy with my H color and I color diamonds, and I definitely call them white. I even have a J that I wear daily, and an M, but the tint in those is readily apparent.

I don't want to retype it, but search "cheat sheet for rounds" here and you'll get a thread that gives the proportions and angles (and comments) that most PS people seem to prefer, and that produce a HCA score under 2. Those numbers originated with some of the PS vendors who used them to pick through cutter/wholesaler listings for what they might want to call in for their stores.
 
I'd say that you've already been given some great advice about where to start your search.. You can definitely find good value in WF's Expert Selection diamonds.. I just bought one for my soon to be fiance's e-ring. It missed being an ACA by a very narrow margin. Everything fell under the ACA guidelines except the star % being off by 1. They have a star % range of 48-55 and the one I bought was 56. You could put that next to an ACA stone and never be able to tell the difference, except I don't pay the premium that comes with an ACA stone.
 
Cowboys4Life|1390576353|3600215 said:
First off, good luck in your selection!

I am no expert by any means, but I recently just finished my engagement ring purchase and did quite a bit of research over the last couple of months. I would recommend dropping to a H color, VS2 or SI1 clarity (you can find many SI1 stones that are eye clean and it will save you a lot of money). BUT, try to buy a diamond that has faint to medium fluorescence. This will drop the price of the stone, but it will make the diamond appear whiter than an H color (It would probably look like a F or G color to the naked eye). Fluorescence isn't a bad thing in a diamond, as long as it does not give a milky/oily look to it. Overall, it would save you money and you could even find a little larger stone for the same price as what you were looking for in the first place. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


Just an FYI. That BGD blue line stone I linked to (great value) has strong fluorescence with no negative effects.

All Blue LIne stones by BGD have been carefully selected and pre-screened.
 
One word of caution - if you're interested in even considering one of the diamonds identified here, call the vendor and see if you can put it on hold. We've seen many cases where a diamond recommended here is coincidentally sold or put on hold by someone other than the poster - presumably PS lurkers. :wink2:
 
Gypsy|1390592296|3600461 said:
Cowboys4Life|1390576353|3600215 said:
First off, good luck in your selection!

I am no expert by any means, but I recently just finished my engagement ring purchase and did quite a bit of research over the last couple of months. I would recommend dropping to a H color, VS2 or SI1 clarity (you can find many SI1 stones that are eye clean and it will save you a lot of money). BUT, try to buy a diamond that has faint to medium fluorescence. This will drop the price of the stone, but it will make the diamond appear whiter than an H color (It would probably look like a F or G color to the naked eye). Fluorescence isn't a bad thing in a diamond, as long as it does not give a milky/oily look to it. Overall, it would save you money and you could even find a little larger stone for the same price as what you were looking for in the first place. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


Just an FYI. That BGD blue line stone I linked to (great value) has strong fluorescence with no negative effects.

All Blue LIne stones by BGD have been carefully selected and pre-screened.
Click to expand...
I don't think 'faint' fluorescence would have any effect discernible effect on the appearance of the stone when viewed in ordinary conditions.

GIA may also believe that 'faint' has no real effect on a diamond as worn, as it is possible for diamonds to fluoresce in colours other than blue, and a 'faint' grading on a certificate may not necessarily refer to blue fluor.
 
If this is improper, forgive me. As some of you may know I have two 0.60 RB diamonds that I may not keep. I would love to offer one of them to the OP for what I paid. It is a 0.60 RB GIA e/VVS2 ex everything. I paid 2400 in the setting. It has beautiful performance and has nice H&A pattern. It came from James Allen and has all the paper work. valued at around 3600. [appraisal higher]
JA would buy it back for 2300. I figured I would just hang on to it, but then I saw her post.

can I say the above here? someone said I could post it on loupetroop-something to make contact if she is interested??
 
It is a 0.60 RB GIA e/VVS2 ex everything =quote said:
Whoops! it's D/VVS2
HCA 1.0
GIA 17576488
from an estate sale.
org: 3230, setting: 460
appraisal 4900
Click to expand...
 
Hello again,

Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts; I don't think I've ever known such a kind and helpful community!?

I've spent hours today browsing diamonds online with the revised requirements suggested here. I seem to suck at finding SI1/2 diamonds, as most seem to have dark inclusions right in the center. I suppose I'm being unfair, because the actual diamond is only 5 mm or so wide, but I can't find anything as nice as those linked by Gypsy, doubledouble and jramy278.

Anyway, I now have about a dozen or so shortlisted; all ideal cut, most G-I color with VS1-2 clarity, and a couple of high and lower outliers. I've yet to study the grading reports, but I have a couple more questions before I do:

  • All my shortlisted diamonds have HCA values of 1.8 or less. Should I be paying more attention to the 'best' (some are rated 0.7-0.9), or is anything under 2 enough?
  • I found the 'cheat sheet' mentioned by TC1987, and I think all my selection conform, but is there anything else I should be looking out for when checking the grading reports? (I now know not to worry too much about fluorescence, but anything else?)

Thank you again!

P.S. Jimmianne, that sounds like a beautiful diamond! For me, I think I'll keep looking at the others first, but I'm sure some lucky person will be interested.
 
Superangel|1390654439|3600926 said:
P.S. Jimmianne, that sounds like a beautiful diamond! For me, I think I'll keep looking at the others first, but I'm sure some lucky person will be interested.
Click to expand...

Happy Searching, Superangel!
 
Hi Superangel,
Yes I know what you are saying re scary inclusion plots when looking at massively magnified photos.
I generally click away from photos that show dark inclusions, very quickly!

It can take time and persistence if you are shopping from the SI range. But the rewards can be worth it.
Crystals are not always dark. Twinning wisps are often invisible to the naked eye.
Take note of the grading inclusions, feathers can be worth avoiding in some cases.

It could be worth finding a manufacturer you know and trust and then having him select stones for you.
Good Old Gold might be a suitable choice perhaps.
I've never shopped with them (I live in Australia) but I think from memory they have a pretty good upgrade policy and great range as well. Also great service in terms of videos etc.

Just a thought.

Regarding the hca scores I can't honestly say how the flavour changes between relatively high (say 1.8 )and lower.
I would really follow the inventor's advice and consider any that fell in the correct range.

I do know that the length of the star facets on the pavilion can have an influence on the overall look of the stone.
I prefer a shorter length on these, say 75% as it gives a slightly chunkier pattern. Often for MRBs these can sit at 80%.
But that's just a personal preference and really I don't think you should take it to that level for this purchase!
I personally would focus on basics like excellent symmetry rather than tiny details for this one lol.

Actually I probably would find a merchant I could trust and go from there.
But whatever you choose, I would be very interested to hear more about your journey!

Best wishes!
 
Thank you Lara! I'll keep in mind everything you suggested.

I live outside the U.S. too, so I've contacted a jeweller I know and will see what he can offer. If that doesn't work out, I'll stick with the usual PS favorites and order online instead.

I'll post again when everything's done, but thank you all again for your help. Any other tips or guidance would always be welcome!
 
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