engagement ring advice

[frustrated]

I can hardly believe how much diamond wisdom is collected on this forum -- I think I''ve come to the right place.

Here''s my situation, briefly. I am determined this summer to buy an engagement ring, but after two weeks of research I am, well, really frustrated. My job leaves me almost no free time, so I feel myself drawn toward Tiffany''s where, although I''ll undoubtedly pay too much, I know I''ll get a beatiful ring and a quality diamond. I really like the half-bezel Etoile ring and of course the original Tiffany style solitaire is a classic, which also appeals to me. But I''m not sold on that idea yet, and all of the Tiffany-bashing on this forum has me at my wit''s end. The name means nothing to me, really. I just want a beautiful diamond and a well-made setting, and I may lack the courage and know-how to find those two things on the internet. Today I went to the local jeweler, but was disappointed in their selection and reluctant to "design my own ring," which, sweet as it sounds, may end in disaster. Can any of you put into a few simple steps how a guy like me can spend 5-8k and wind up with the right ring?

Thanks!

 

[verticalhorizon]

Ahhh... I love these kinds of posts. Reminds me of my stress-full days of a new e-ring shopper.

You have come to the right place.

1. Not sure if you are a man or a woman.

Plenty of women on these forums. Sometimes I think if the bride-2-be were involved in the process, technically it should make shopping easier. Not always the case.

2. Tiffany's isn't all bad.

An uneducated consumer is bad. [Almost all ] Businesses are all in it for the same reason... to make $$$. If they can buy something low and sell it high, then great. This goes for Tiffany as much as it does Zales or Kays. If you're not careful, you don't always get what you pay for. I've seen some stunners AND dogs at Tiffany.

3. Learn your FIVE C's: CASH, CUT, CARAT, CLARITY, and COLOR.

Look at your credit report, peek into your savings and determine how much you're going to spend first. Make sure that you won't go into debt over the ring. (and make sure you can still eat lunch on a regular basis.) Or if you are ok with financing it, that you go into financing with realistic expectations. READ the fine print of any in-store financing, zero interest, mumbo-jumbo. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Better yet, go to your bank and ask for a personal loan and take the vendor out of the equation.

Cut doesn't just stand for the shape, but the quality of the cut. This is where you hear people talking about crown angles, pavillion depths, yadda, yadda. They are NOT the end all and be all of shopping online and in the store, but helps you weed out clear dogs so as not to waste more time you clearly don't have.

Carat is of course your WEIGHT. Not size. Similar carat weights can have considerably different size dimensions. Don't be fooled by a great price only to find out that it appears smaller than other similar carat weights.

Clarity is your inclusions. I always feel, inclusions you can't see, unaided, from an arm length's distance aren't there. Just make sure that the inclusions don't pose a durability risk in the long run.

Color is the body color. I put color on the bottom of the list, b/c if the cut is excellent, then a lower colored diamond will appear whiter than it really is. Tricksy!

4. Go shopping w/o your checkbook.

Just as important as reading and shopping online. Go shopping in the stores. Go to mall stores, local jewelers, wherever and look and compare diamonds. And not just the diamonds you're intersted in... look at them all, compare them all so you get an idea of what they really look like.

5. Don't let someone bully you or rush you into a decision by using a smarmy 150% off 1 day only sale. Diamond prices fluctuate all the time, esp. over the 2 ct mark apparently, but it's better to bite a higher price for something you want, than to swallow an ugly diamond that you were bullied into.

6. ALWAYS buy with a 100% money back guarantee based on an ind. appraisal.

Whew... others will chime in and add... especially with useful links for you to read. Congrats and good luck. Vent if you need to!

 

[verticalhorizon]

Also... Grading Reports.

Quite simply, if you're looking for the standard Round Brilliant, Princess, etc. I like AGS first, then GIA runs a close second. You'll see some GIA reports (dossiers) don't have an inclusion plot and some do. Weird, but that's the way it is.

AGS is just better at providing more cut detail, but apparently that's all about to change soon, or at least some say.

 

[frustrated]

Thanks for the response and wealth of advice -- I am a man, buying a ring for a woman, by the by. Sorry not to have included that minor detail.

Hearts and arrows, VVS1, platinum, white gold -- my head is spinning. Is there any good reason to assume that a jeweler like Tiffany's will do a better job setting a stone than, say, whiteflash.com? Tiffany's, on their website (which is so fab, incidentally), provides a lot of scare-tactic information on the potential errors of other jewelers such as poor proportions, loose prongs, etc... worth checking out if only to evaluate its truth-value. And how safely can one buy a ring without seeing it first?

 

[verticalhorizon]

Frust,

1.) I love your name and 2.) I love that you're a man who's not afraid of using the word, "fab."

Like every complicated concept, it's best to break it down into simpler more digestible parts.

- Diamond
- Setting
- Appraisal
- Insurance
- Proposal

Then again into sub-topics

-Diamond
-- square vs. round (or other)
-- quality vs. size
-- name vs. no name

-Setting
-- White gold vs. plat
-- high mounting vs. low
-- classic vs. modern

But what really seems to be getting you is the trust factor, which is completely understandable. And I have an answer for that too! Go figure!

You're scared of buying something you'll never get to see until it's done, right?

That would scare anybody even if it were the Sharper Image tie rotater for father's day. The good news is that companies like White Flash, Nice Ice, Good Old Gold, etc. use more detail and more advanced technology and knowledge than practically anyone else you could go to in a store.

And that's where you start. Read yourself up real good. Then go into the stores. All of them. 2 a time, no reason to kill yourself. The purpose of this is to make youself comfortable with the level of service you would get in a store versus an B&C (or what others are calling a Brick and Click-those companies with stores and online storefronts).

I think in a survey somewhere, they said people wind up shopping somewhere b/c they feel confident and comfortable. Especially with a high priced item like diamonds. If you don't feel comfortable with a salesperson, how can you give them thousands of dollars.

So go ahead, go into Tiffanys, tell them your budget and your preferences and see what they have. But also ask them questions about its cut, clarity, brilliance,etc. Have they ever seem brilliance scope or lightscope results on the diamonds, do they know the exact dimensions and specs of the diamonds.

Online vendors like the ones on PS document and photograph practically everything you'll ever need to know about YOUR diamond. It'll be more info than you'll ever receive if you look at it through a 10x loupe in a store.

Pair that up with an independent appraisal like Richard Sherwood or Dave Atlass and you can be certain that the diamond is what the cert says it is.

The other reason to go into a store is so that you can conceptualize what it is that you're buying, b/c it's tough not seeing it up front. You can get an idea of how different a 1ct and a 1.5ct is in real-time.

I think you said you have about $5-8K to spend. That's a good amount. Depending on variables, that can get you a good 1ct plat ring. But there's a bunch of wiggle room depending on your and your GF's priorities.

The party line here is often:

- The less you spend on the setting, the more you can spend on the diamond
- Going down in color and clarity let's you go up in cut quality and size

Personally, I think the setting is just as important. The ring is a package deal. But that's just my opinion. I do believe that the forumula for diamond buying it true. On a budget, quality and size should be first, so be prepared to compromise (there's a word you have to get used to!).

Ex: Would you rather have a...

0.50ct D IF or a...

0.9ct G VS2 or a...

1.25ct J SI1

I included no $$ figures b/c I made these examples up just for illustration purposes, but you get the idea. If you hold them up next to each other... I mean right next to each other, you'll see a difference... BUT WHEN are you going to do that? Never.

Be realistic. Use your money wisely. Do your homework. Building your own ring won't be as much work as hammering out the metal yourself, but it will be harder than just picking one out of a case. The result, you will find, will be much more satisfying when your woman finds out how much time you spent on it.

 

[verticalhorizon]

If you narrow down your choices and post all the specs, PS folks will give you their opinions.

Of course, the last word is always yours.

 

[Nicrez]

Welcome Frustrated! (I love the name too...it's FAB!)

As VH says, it's all about homework. Actually he so elloquently put the whole process I barely have a thing to add, except that going to a site like Tiffany's they truly showcase their brand, whereas a place like this showcases the diamond industry as a whole, and not just their brand:

Good Old Gold Tutorial

Truly, I think you have a lot to read before you write any checks. I always suggest being familiar with what you are buying, esepcially when it's $5-8K!

So right here on priceScope there are some very helpful people that can guide you along your search, when you are looking for a stone. Most people drop stats of the stone, and wait for the opinions and suggestions to roll in. And they do! I thought carat was size when I found this forum...NOW I know better...

So stick around and read up on some of the vendor's websites (like NiceIce, WhiteFlash, Abazias, USACerted, etc) because from what I have seen, these vendors that align themselves with a diamond forum, are usually happy to have educated customers, and cater to them unlike any jeweler I have found...

Truly you are in the right place to find a great stone for less, and we hope you start posting some possibilities soon!

Good luck!!!

 

[verticalhorizon]

Ah... Nic made an extremely good point in like 4 sentences that I forgot in like 20.

Most mall (or 'maul') stores rely on uneducated shoppers. Their markup is anywhere from 50-200%. Tiffany is similar only is like 200% or more.

The vendors who align themselves with a forum like PS (as Nicrez said) enjoy working with educated consumers. They want to help smart people make smart choices.

Now does that sound too good to be true?... ok actually it does, but it also makes sense, I had such a great experience, you can bet I will tell everyone I can about it. Heck, I'm telling you.

And that's where those businesses make back their time and money, through referrals.

 

[bling]

haha, i love posts like this too..but only wish i could do this for a living! you have gotten some fabulous advice so far. like others have said, there is nothing wrong with tiffanys and they do sell quality rings. but, since you mentioned that you do not have to have the name brand, why not spend the extra that you would pay for a tiffany ring and get a larger stone, or a higher color or clarity? you have soo many options awaiting you here..and if you run a few searches on some of the vendors here on PS, you will find that they have excellent reputations, and are very trustworthy. GOG has an excellent tutorial where you can read almost everything youve ever wanted to know about diamonds...not to mention that they have excellent inventory as Jonathan hand selects many of his stones for beauty.
Most of the vendors here sell beautiful H&A, well cut stones..the same kind of stones you would find at tiffanys, just a little cheaper. some even have lovely replica settings of the coveted tiffany solitair, it that struck your fancy.
your next steps would be to think about whats important to you, and your lady. will she appreciate a higher color, or clarity over size? or will she like a larger diamond and be willing to go down a tad in color and clarity.
most of us PSers are cut snobs, and will never tell you to sacrifice in that area..no matter what your budget..that is afterall, what makes the diamond bling!
maybe if you can narrow your criteria down a tad, and post what you are looking for, others here will jump at the chance to give you many suggestions and help point you in the right direction.
stick around..you may like it! hehehe..

 

[WinkHPD]

You appear to be in good hand with these two bombarding you with info and they have said it well.

Look, read, ask questions of the experts and enjoy the process. Take some time to let it all sink in, then check out the stones in the pricescope database, there are some great ones available.

There are a lot of great vendors here and we all will be trying to earn your business, so you are in a GREAT position provided that you take some time to learn what you are wanting.

You will always buy better from knowledge and strength than from confusion and weakness!

Wink

 

[Lincoln]

Frustrated - according to Tiffany's website, and I quote, "A Tiffany-quality one-carat diamond engagement ring will be priced between $8,800 and $33,200". Your budget nearly hits the introductory rate, so don't set your heart on the blue box just yet. For the diamond, you will be able to get a fab stone from one of the reputable vendors on pricescope. You can nearly close your eyes and pick one. For the Etoile half bezel, I know Whiteflash carries one by LE, and Mondera (and Blue Nile) also carries a half bezel, though it's slightly different. There may be others, keep looking. But start building your ring, boy.

 

[researcher]

If you're considering the etoile (half bezel), see the start of this link:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-please-help-etoile-band.16293/

I think you could get a MUCH better deal with White Flash than at T&C, and you can work with someone wonderful like Denise who will take care of everything for you

 

[frustrated]

Yeah, I saw that. In fact, I spoke with a somewhat less-than-friendly Tiffany's rep today who told me that for the Etoile half-bezel .5 carats begin at $5k and 1 carats at $10k. I guess I was banking on the "it doesn't HAVE to be a full carat" theory. Am I wrong?

Thanks to everyone for posting! What with all the responses and internet research, my eyes are bleary...

 

[frustrated]

Thanks! That image of the half-bezel on whiteflash looks fantastic. But I just wonder if in a few years time I won't feel like a jerk for finding a ring I liked at Tiffany's and then buying a copy of it someplace else... I guess I should be thinking less about the setting and more about the diamond, eh?

 

[Lincoln]

Sounds like there may be some intrinsic value to you in the Tiffany's name. I think that's ok, as long as you understand what you're paying for. I doubt Tiffany's would sell you a less than ideal diamond.

 

[researcher]

I have a feeling you'll be feeling fantastic about your decision, and laughing at the fools who spent a ton for a brand while your girl is sporting a diamond twice the size! How can you feel like a jerk for being smart? Honestly, I don't know many girls who would trade in diamond size for a brand ring when no one will know whether it came from T&C unless they look inside the ring (and who does that?). With a budget of $5000-8000, you should be able to get a GORGEOUS 1.25-1.50 ct ideal cut round AND the setting (and possibly the matching wedding band!). What could be better?

Just remember when/if you contact Denise to ask for the Pricescope discount. Oh, and be sure to tell her "hi" for me!

Good luck!
Summer

 

[Nicrez]

Agreed with researcher. Nothing overcomes the Tiffany name like a larger stone...

My sister has a Tiffany's e-ring and wedding ring. She has a nice 1.5 carat and still wishes it were larger! Also, no one knows it's Tiffany's unless they ask specifically. No one does that. People just ask size...It seems size matters.

Me personally, i did the search in T&C to see what my stone specs would price at. I got a quote for literally 2X the price we paid for our exact stone. E, VVS1 1.73cts Lucida, versus a radiant. To be honest, a shaped stone prices less, but the prices are not always comisserate with their stone quality.

Almost all the stones I saw on display where G color or lower, and clairity at VS2 or VS1. Not impressed enough to spend twice as much, or get half as much for the same price. Put it this way, my sister envies MY ring...

So, in the end, she likes having her name brand, and it was worth it to her, but to most women, it IS about size...

with a $5-8K budget, you could have a truly beautiful stone and setting, just like Researcher said...Just a thought, but if you are reasearching diamonds, you want a better deals, yes? Tiffany's isn't usually the better deal, they are just a big deal...Wish they didn't have that mark-up though, or at least if their round stones where more ideally cut!

 

[chialea]

----------------
On 6/14/2004 10:00:22 PM frustrated wrote:

I guess I was banking on the 'it doesn't HAVE to be a full carat' theory. Am I wrong?

----------------

Nothing wrong with diamonds under a carat. It all depends on your tastes and your budget. I could afford something quite large, if I wanted, but I like the look of a .8 ct (very well-cut) diamond.

About the setting-vs-diamond debate, most of the denizens of this board are of the "diamond first and foremost, setting a distant second" opinion, but certainly not all. I chose the shape of my diamond to fit the setting I liked, and not the other way around. To me, the ring is a whole package, and how it looks is about much more than the sparkly diamond... It's all a matter of taste and lifestyle; some settings are much more practical for active people than others!