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Engagement Imminent - Advice needed on Diamond please!

Jigsaw84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
7
I have the following diamond on reserve from Bluenile and wanted to check to make sure i'm not making any catastrophic errors or overpaying!

I wanted to try and get a 1ct but didn't want to skimp on quality. I've chosen something that is hearts and arrows for the light return.

Is there anything on this I should be worried about?

Thanks guys -really appreciate any advice you can give.


GIA Report here:

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355990168790&reportno=1176295024


GCAL Grading here:

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/252470018.pdf?params=Y291bnRyeT1VU0EmcHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzg4OC01NjUtNzY0MSZsaW5rPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYmx1ZW5pbGUuY29tJTJGX0xEMDYyODg0NTQmY3VycmVuY3k9VVNEJmxhYj1nY2FsJnNrdT1MRDA2Mjg4NDU0Jg%3D%3D

GIA Report below:
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements
6.33 - 6.37 x 3.83 mm
Carat Weight
0.93 carat
Color Grade
D
Clarity Grade
VVS2
Cut Grade
Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth
60.3 %
Table
57 %
Crown Angle
33.5°
Crown Height
14.0%
Pavilion Angle
40.8°
Pavilion Depth
43.0%
Star Length
50%
Lower Half
75%
Girdle
Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet
None

FINISH

Polish
Excellent
Symmetry
Excellent
FLUORESCENCE

Fluorescence
None
CLARITY CHARACTERISTICS

Clarity Characteristics
Pinpoint
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Well your defi ition of quality needs.adjustment. Can you.stop the purchase? You can do much better.
 

Jigsaw84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
7
Yes - it's reserved but not finalised so I can stop at any time.

The diamond is $9500 - I'm pretty new to this but looked at the GCAL and it appeared to be a 'good diamond' - can you explain what i've missed and what the alternatives are?

Thanks!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
First, please explain tbe reason for such high color and clarity. Is it a cultural thing?

The crown angle is too low for.a tolk style stone.

Cut is king and this one gets a B+ when your budget can easily afford an A.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
CUT:
Rhe entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. Table:53-60. Depth 59.8-62.4, Crown 34-35.5 and complimentary with the pavilion angle: 40.6-40.8 (33.5. Ok for 60/60 style stones as is 41 WITH idealscope only).
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want? Well, we have tools like the HCA to help you with that. https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca But that is not enough.
What you need after that is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. All our best vendors do though.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. With AGS0 stones you don't strictly need an idealscope image. But getting one is nice to confirm performance and that is why almost all our best vendors provide them for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is..

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198

Jigsaw84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
7
Gypsy|1452767738|3975852 said:

Thanks very much for the suggestions. What is a "tolk" style you mentioned in an earlier post?

The reason for going for D and VVS2 was to achieve the best I can get - however thre GOG diamond (1.05ct) looks amazing and is a simliar price to the diamond I was looking at but with a higher carat. I take what you mean about the D, E and F. I had a look in a store and struggled to tell them apart but my logic was 'if im going to spend this kind of money I want as much bang for buck' as possible.

I'll give GOG a ring later to see if they still have the diamond and what they can do. I can always cancel the Bluenile order - I wasn't 100% sure because I've heard good things about GOG and the quality of stone. What im trying to achieve is the best possible stone for the money that's round.
 

Jigsaw84

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
7
Gypsy|1452767738|3975852 said:

Just looking at this on my lunchbreak - HCA shows the the bluenile stone as having:

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 0.8 - Excellent
within TIC range


The GOG stone you listed as your first choice shows:
Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.8 - Excellent
within TIC range

I literally have no idea what "Spread" is that's mentioned but it's only listed as "very good" (vs Excellent for bluenile). I know you've already taken the time to run through the explanation above (and thank you massively for that!) but could you explain what (specifically) is wrong with the bluenile diamond? I've read a few times that recommendations for bluenile are few and far between because of the lack of detailed information provided by bluenile.

Does this mean it's a 'safer recommendation' to go with GOG because you can see the varoius ASET / Megascope details and make a better judgment call on quality? I feel like I'm going round in circles (getting to the position of actually reserving the bluenile diamond has taken me about a month of umming and aahing over what to choose).
 

centrifuge41

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
25
Spread isn't related to light performance. It's a measure of how many mm is the stone's diameter, vs. the carat weight. E.g. does it appear to have the face-up that is suggested by its weight? "Very Good" isn't necessarily a bad thing here. It's just something to keep in mind. In the end, you'll want to evaluate the face-up of your stone vs. others, vs performance, price, etc.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay so, round have different types of faceting. Generic modern round brilliants generally have the same facet structure but they come in two types, in terms of proportions. One is a 60/60 style stone. Which is not what the VVS stone is. And the other type is https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond

Regarding color:
You said yourself you couldn't really see the difference between a D and an F. So why pay for something you can't see? And you wear a diamond on your hand, by itself. Not next to a D. So

Regarding clarity:
A VS1 and a VVS are indistinguishable to the naked eye. So why pay for something you can't see, again?

You know what you can see? Size! So spend your money getting over that carat mark.

That GOG stone gives you that. It also gives you guaranteed and confirmed light performance with an IS and an ASET. And you are spending 10k!!! You WANT to lower your risk and raise your certainty. You are also getting really awesome upgrade policy (much better than Blue Nile).

Now regarding the HCA score. The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. So the other diamond passing the HCA just means it meets minimum requirements for FURTHER INVESTIGATION. And that is with an idealscope or an ASET. Neither of which Blue Nile provides. And both of which GOG has posted for you. If you read what I wrote you above the angles recommended at 34 for the crown on a Tolk style stone. You do not want a low crown as it will mean less fire. And you want a firey diamond.

So all of that is why I recommended the stones I did.

And then there is GOG's customer service to add to that.

So, in general that F VS1 is a total win for you. And I think you'll be very happy with it. And so will the wearer.
 
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