engagement diamond

[davidgelb]

Hi all,
I am new to this site, but thanks to the info I found in this site, I have not only educated myself in how to select a better diamond, but I saved myself from purchasing a diamond, which at the time looked great...it was only after I found this site did I realize that the cut of the diamond was inferior...so first, let me thank you all for all the information you have contributed!

Now, here is my question. I have been dating my girlfriend for almost 2 years. I have decided that I will propose on our 2 year anniversary, which is just a little over a month away. I made my first stop Robbins Brothers here in LA. I have to say, they are very nice and made me feel very welcome. The diamond specialist who helped me insisted on educating me on how to select a diamond (which ultimately came back to bite her, since I was able to see that the diamonds she was showing me were not good cuts!) To make a long story short, she selected 2 diamonds to show me, both of which were inferior cuts for the money they were charging. Through this site, I found Mark at engagementringsdirect.com. I found a diamond on the website that on paper, looks very inviting. After talking with him, I was told that the diamond is nice, but due to it''s EGL cert, might not be quite as nice as it was graded. SO, I thought I would post the specs of the diamond on this forum and get your 2 cents worth...

The diamond is graded as a 1.07ct round, excellent cut, VS1 E, depth 62%, table 57%, girdle M, culet: None, EX/EX, no flouresence, measured at 6.44x6.46x4. Mark said that he feels that it is more likely VS2 F, which is still nicer and less expensive than the diamond I was sold at Robbins Brothers (which was a 1.01ct round, VS2 J, depth of 66.2%!).

I would love your input as to whether this sounds like a good deal or not...please ask if you need any further information (I am still new, so not exactly sure what info you need).

Thank you in advance for any advice, help, tips, etc, you can offer me!

Sincerely,
David

 

[JulieN]

could you post the price?

 

[davidgelb]

Hi Julie,
That would be a good idea! The diamond loose is $5050. I will be mounting it in a tiffany knife edge solitaire white gold setting.

Thanks for the info!

-David

 

[JulieN]

Well, it is a VERY good price...

I can''t find a 6.45mm+ stone F VS2, GIA for under 5050 in the PS search. Honestly, I think a GIA F VS2 for 5050 is like...wholesale price.

Maybe you have crown and pavilion height?

 

[davidgelb]

Julie,
Thanks for the info! I will have crown and pavilion heights tomorrow morning (hopefully)...I will post them as soon as I get it.

Have a great night.

-David

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/28/2006 4:15:20 AM
Author: JulieN
Well, it is a VERY good price...

I can''t find a 6.45mm+ stone F VS2, GIA for under 5050 in the PS search. Honestly, I think a GIA F VS2 for 5050 is like...wholesale price.

Maybe you have crown and pavilion height?

I thought he said it was EGL... that it was listed as EGL E VS1

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to PS

Julie this is an EGL cert

We need the crown and pavillion angles in order to help you further. This diamond has a nice tight diameter measurement, the girdle could be better as it is med, the depth and table are a tad out of ideal, but it could be a very pretty diamond and the price will be lower because of the cert. You probably know that EGL diamonds can be said to be softer on their grading in some circumstances. If you have seen it and like it then an extra $100 or so would be good to have an independant appraisal done just to make sure the diamond checks out, especially if having a firewall E colour is important to you - make the sale contingent on this diamond checking out. Is this diamond an EGL USA cert? These are said to be more accurate than EGL Europe, Antwerp, Israel etc...

 

[davidgelb]

Hey Cehra,
Yes, it is EGL certified as a VS1 E, but I was told by the seller that it looks more like a GIA VS2 F.

-David

 

[JulieN]

angles would be better than heights, if possible. pictures would be good, too.

I'll be candid and say I am trying to look for something wrong with this EGL E VS1 that may be an F VS2 but is only 5050.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/28/2006 4:30:12 AM
Author: davidgelb
Hey Cehra,
Yes, it is EGL certified as a VS1 E, but I was told by the seller that it looks more like a GIA VS2 F.

-David

So the seller is saying the cert isn't accurate? Don't speculate if you want this diamond and take that as gospel, get an independant expert to look at it. Julie, it is probably the EGL cert which is making this diamond so cheap for what it is.

 

[davidgelb]

Julie,
Thank you - I will get angles tomorrow (I should be getting the cert). I will let you know as soon as I get them.

Lorelei, yes, he told me that the cert is not as accurate as it could be. I will have a 14 day inspection period during which I can return it for full refund. If the angles are close to excellent, and if the cut looks good overall and rates well with the cut advisor, then I will absolutely take it to an independant appraiser to get it inspected before I decide to keep it or not.

I am so glad I ran across this site...you are all a great help! Thank you and I will post more info tomorrow morning.

-David

 

[Lorelei]

Oops I think I inadvertently found this diamonds link!

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2389068.htm

Ok this is a virtual stone, and I just saw you were working with Mark at ERD, he is a great vendor and you can trust what he says.

 

[davidgelb]

Hi all,
OK, I got the certificate on the diamond I am considering purchasing...it is certified by EGL (I called EGL in NY and they don''t have this cert on file, so they said it is probably from EGL International).

Here are the specs:

Weight: 1.07ct
Shape: Round brilliant cut
Measurements: 6.46 x 6.44 x 4.00mm
Proportions: Excellent
Depth: 62%
Table Diameter: 57%
Crown height: 14%
Pavilion depth: 44%
Gridle thickness: Medium
Finish grade: Excellent
Clarity: VS1
Color: E
Photoluminescence: None
Comments: ideal cut H&A

Does this sound like a good buy? I am new at diamond shopping, although I have really learned a lot over the last couple weeks...I just want to make sure I am getting the best bang for my buck and have a diamond that I know my girlfriend will love!

Thanks for all the info!!

-David

 

[rogue]

The HCA score with those figures is a 3 with very goods across the board, assuming the culet is 0%. If the culet is more than 0%, the score increases. It''s not as accurate with crown and pavilion percentages rather than angles though. Maybe you can get Mark to show you an Idealscope picture?

 

[davidgelb]

For the price, does that sound like a decent buy? I just want to make sure I am getting a nice diamond for the money!

Is a 3 across the board still considered a nice diamond according to the HCA?

I think if it sounds good, I may still buy it and take it in for an apprasel here...I do have 14 days to check it out.

Thank you for any advice you have!

-David

 

[rogue]

I think it still could be very nice. Many PSers themselves like to stay below 2, and I think the general rule of thumb is to try not to exceed 2.5. But, that being said, it''s just an estimatation of potential light leakage based on average angles. You could look at it through an Idealscope to see if you actually see any light leakage. Or if you can''t get access to one, just give it a hard look in many different lightings to make sure you like the way it sparkles, it doesn''t look too dark in certain areas, etc. Sounds like it could be a great deal if it''s independently appraised as an F VS2! And if you decide to keep it, for peace of mind, and just to up the value of it, you could even send it to GIA to get a GIA cert on it.

 

[JulieN]

Does this sound like a good buy? I am new at diamond shopping, although I have really learned a lot over the last couple weeks...I just want to make sure I am getting the best bang for my buck and have a diamond that I know my girlfriend will love!

High color and clarity is not good for the buck. (Hah...I just realized that a buck is also a male...funny how we associate money and masculinity.)

And bad angles does not make for good bang.

Therefore, this stone does not have the qualities that make for good "bang for your buck."

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/28/2006 11:50:39 PM
Author: JulieN

Does this sound like a good buy? I am new at diamond shopping, although I have really learned a lot over the last couple weeks...I just want to make sure I am getting the best bang for my buck and have a diamond that I know my girlfriend will love!

High color and clarity is not good for the buck. (Hah...I just realized that a buck is also a male...funny how we associate money and masculinity.)

And bad angles does not make for good bang.

Therefore, this stone does not have the qualities that make for good ''bang for your buck.''

I agree - you can do better David, plenty of diamonds out there and ones with EGL certs are always cheaper.

 

[davidgelb]

Hi Lorelei,
I am a little confused...what do you mean by High color and clarity is not good for the buck? I thought that for this price, even if the EGL grading is a little loose, that a VS2 F for this price seems pretty good! Also, the EGL cert gives this excellent cut...while I realize that it is probably not quite that high, given the price of this diamond, isn''t it a pretty good cut, color and clarity?

If you could elaborate on your answer, I would appreciate it...not that I don''t trust your answer, I just don''t quite understand.

Thank you!

David

 

[Lorelei]

Basically David, we PSers advocate dropping the colour and clarity to get " the most bang for the buck" so you don't pay for what the eye can't see i.e. VVS or VS clarity and DEF colour etc. To get the B4B we normally say to get a G or H - even I or J depending colour and a clean SI1 or even SI2 clarity which is about as low as you can go with a great cut to get a clean and white fab diamond. So what I meant was you could drop to lower on colour and clarity but making sure you get a great cut to get bang for the buck and that the higher colours and clarities normally don't fulfil that criteria. HOWEVER....some people's idea of B4B vary, nothing wrong with higher colour and clarity if that is what you want - it is just a saying to go lower on these to get size for your money if you wish to.

Regarding this cut on this diamond.

The depth is a tad deep at 62% - but only a fraction.
The table is a tad large at 57% - but still could be fine.
The girdle is a little on the thick side at med ( slightly thin to slightly thick is preferred)
Photoluminescence - I think only EGL South Africa uses this term for fluorescence or Antwerp
Ideal Cut H&A - do we know for sure this is so?
Crown and Pav angles - I don't know what these would be in angles. Maybe Mark could run a Sarin on it for you?
Diameter measurements - these are good and nice and tightly cut.

All in all this might be a good performer, but the specs on the cut could be tighter and I have no clue with the % on the crown and pav %

So with an appraisal it might be a good colour and clarity still, but there are better cut diamonds out there. Now, not everyone wants a super luper cut, and this diamond might certainly be better than many out there. It has a better than average cut and might be lovely, but we PSers see the top of the crop on a daily basis, this one has a nice cut but could have tighter specs. So worth a look. Hope this helps explain my thinking David!

Also this page might explain a little about branded and non branded H&A cuts in case you want some further reading!
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamond-education/beware.aspx

Also this tutorial Hearts and Arrows will help too. Regarding Mark at ERD, he is a great vendor and he won't steer you wrong.