Endless Diamond

[FlyAK]

My boyfriend proposed recently with an Endless Diamond ring. I have taken it to several jewelers, but no one will resize it because the center stones do not have prongs holding them in, just the pressure from the smaller diamonds.

Does anyone know anything about this type of ring? Should I be concerned with the stones falling out and not being able to be repaired? Its only one size too big. Im thinking if I put a small band that fits in front it wont slide off my finger.

It is a very beautiful ring. He spent so much time and effort to pick it out that I would like to keep it, but Im afraid we will have trouble finding a jeweler that will work on it.

Thank you

 

[tyty333]

For now you can wear a smaller band after it to hold it on.

You might ask the other jewelers if they will do speed bumps to make it smaller. A lot of people with bigger Knuckles than fingers have to do these to
keep their rings tight but still allow them to put them on. It wont cause the stones to move (I dont blame the jewelers for not wanting to resize it).
Some are not as dramatic as this picture (more like flatter but longer speed bumps in the road).

 

[baby monster]

I would personally not wear a ring with a cluster setting like that. If one stone gets knocked out, the rest will fall like dominoes. The fact that jewelers don't want to touch it should be a red flag to you.

 

[tyty333]

Yes, please be very careful with your ring. I would take it off when you get home. If you knock it at all, check to make sure the stones
are still tight.

 

[rockysalamander]

Your best bet will be to see if someone will add sizing beads, like @tyty333 suggested. This is a more fragile setting than some. I would look at insuring the ring with a private insurance company, I use Jewelers Mutual.

 

[kenny]

I find it hard to believe they would set a diamond so it is held in place by direct contact with other diamonds, girdles touching girdles.
Wouldn't they chip each other?

Are you sure there isn't something else offering support?
Perhaps there is a groove ground into the girdles and metal supports somehow fit into the grooves.

They do this for those 'invisible set' princess cuts.
They mount 9 tiny princess diamonds side by side so it looks like one big diamond.

 

[rockysalamander]

From the maker's website, "Fantasy Diamond is the innovator of the patented diamond setting technique called Endless Diamond Touch Setting. Using individual, hand set diamonds, this technique creates a smooth, solitaire appearance that appears much larger than a single stone. Diamonds that are Touch Set fit together continuously without prongs nor grooves to create a seamless sparkle! " {emphasis added}

All the rings on their website have a surrounding bezel. Then, shared prongs hold the outer ring of diamonds. I suspect there are a series of drilled holes that are then used to make a seat with a burr (like pave). The encirling stones are at a slight outward tilt and their girdles seem to rest on top of the center stones. So, the outer stones are held with the shared prongs and the main stone is pushed down by the encircling stones. Quite a ballet of pressure.

@FlyAK - I would contact the maker at www.endlessdiamond.com to get advice on resizing. They may have you send the ring back to them for service. You could also try the place he bought the ring. The cutting of the shank to resize and soldering or welding is not a huge deal. I think the hesitation is because you need to then reshape that shank, clean and polish it. Even soldering in speed-bumps requires heat and solder (and then clean and polish).

Can you post a picture of the side and underside of your ring while not on your finger? I'm curious about the construction.

Edited to add, maybe a trade member can chime in with some thoughts on getting this resized (and if correctly described the likely construction), @Texas Leaguer @Wink @Sunstorm

 

[FlyAK]

From the maker's website, "Fantasy Diamond is the innovator of the patented diamond setting technique called Endless Diamond Touch Setting. Using individual, hand set diamonds, this technique creates a smooth, solitaire appearance that appears much larger than a single stone. Diamonds that are Touch Set fit together continuously without prongs nor grooves to create a seamless sparkle! " {emphasis added}

All the rings on their website have a surrounding bezel. Then, shared prongs hold the outer ring of diamonds. I suspect there are a series of drilled holes that are then used to make a seat with a burr (like pave). The encirling stones are at a slight outward tilt and their girdles seem to rest on top of the center stones. So, the outer stones are held with the shared prongs and the main stone is pushed down by the encircling stones. Quite a ballet of pressure.

@FlyAK - I would contact the maker at www.endlessdiamond.com to get advice on resizing. They may have you send the ring back to them for service. You could also try the place he bought the ring. The cutting of the shank to resize and soldering or welding is not a huge deal. I think the hesitation is because you need to then reshape that shank, clean and polish it. Even soldering in speed-bumps requires heat and solder (and then clean and polish).

Can you post a picture of the side and underside of your ring while not on your finger? I'm curious about the construction.

Edited to add, maybe a trade member can chime in with some thoughts on getting this resized (and if correctly described the likely construction), @Texas Leaguer @Wink @Sunstorm

Thank you all for your responses. I've thought about sizing beads, but was told it's not a good option for over 1/2 size difference. Also since it's my engagement ring, I'm going to be wearing it everyday for a long time and I would like it to be very comfortable.

I tried emailing the designer to see if they can size it a few times, but never recieved a response. After speaking with a few reputable jewelers, I'm thinking it might be better to look for something else for daily wear. I talked with my fiance, he said he purchased it at Costco and was told he could return it, so we may have to go that route. It does fit my middle finger perfectly, so I may keep it just to wear for special occasions.

Here are a few pictures of the ring i could get with my phone. @rockysalamander

 

[HappyNewLife]

Costco has such a great return policy, I'd go that route and start over with another ring that isn't as fragile. You never know if you'll need to resize your ring over the years, it would be nice to have that option. Many of us here have different engagement rings than the ones we received during the proposal!

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you all for your responses. I've thought about sizing beads, but was told it's not a good option for over 1/2 size difference. Also since it's my engagement ring, I'm going to be wearing it everyday for a long time and I would like it to be very comfortable.

I tried emailing the designer to see if they can size it a few times, but never recieved a response. After speaking with a few reputable jewelers, I'm thinking it might be better to look for something else for daily wear. I talked with my fiance, he said he purchased it at Costco and was told he could return it, so we may have to go that route. It does fit my middle finger perfectly, so I may keep it just to wear for special occasions.

Here are a few pictures of the ring i could get with my phone. @rockysalamander

Thanks for the photos. Before you decide what to do relative to return or replace, may I ask your budget? We could look for a few diamonds that maximize size in a three stone settings to give you a reference point that could help you decide in terms of the "look" you can get for a specific budget.

Maybe a setting like this? https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ment-ring-with-scroll-undergallery-item-22571 ($~1300)

 

[Sunstorm]

@rockysalamander I do not know this particular "invention" but we all know these type of settings have been around for a while, some patented, most became a big failure.

I cannot comment too much on this particular ring but I would return it and start over with something you and the other wonderful prosumers can suggest here. I am wary of this type of a setting and the prongs do not really look quality either. As to the look, that is an individual preference.

It does say a lot that other jewelers would not touch it. The shank has no pave. Normally, it would be ok to resize. I am thinking that they cannot take the liability because they are concerned that the stones will just pop out. They inspected the ring in closeup and probably found the setting of the stones not secure enough.

It also says a lot to me that the "designer" is not bothering to respond. If you are proud of your jewelry, you also take pride in giving excellent customer service and the failure to even respond to a resizing request indicates a problem to me as well.

I think OP can get the most for her money if she gets he assistance here, best diamonds, setting, etc. and more of a value.

 

[FlyAK]

Thank you all for your advice. I spoke with my fiance and we have decided to return the ring.

While I like the 3 stone settings, I think they may be out of our budget right now. I am leaning toward getting a nicer single round diamond in a cathedral setting for now, with the option of upgrading later for an anniversary. I would like to stay under $7000.

Would these diamonds be any good?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3279505

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3252977

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you all for your advice. I spoke with my fiance and we have decided to return the ring.

While I like the 3 stone settings, I think they may be out of our budget right now. I am leaning toward getting a nicer single round diamond in a cathedral setting for now, with the option of upgrading later for an anniversary. I would like to stay under $7000.

Would these diamonds be any good?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3279505

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3252977

Folks will post more later, I'm a work, but filter your search to the following. Here's how I filter for most basic round searches.

Top right, Ideal and TruHearts


Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Lab GIA AGS
Depth 60-62.3
Table 54-57.5 (58 is fine, I personally prefer under 57)

Then, exclude any that are not within these ranges.
crown angle 34-35 degrees
pavilion angle 40.6 - 41 degrees
lower crown pairs better with higher pavilion and vice versa (34 w/41 pav and 35 w/40.6 pav)

I usually avoid anything with clouds or 'additional clouds' for SI2.

What's left is what I look at (plus or minus a few variations)

 

[FlyAK]

Folks will post more later, I'm a work, but filter your search to the following. Here's how I filter for most basic round searches.

Top right, Ideal and TruHearts


Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Lab GIA AGS
Depth 60-62.3
Table 54-57.5 (58 is fine, I personally prefer under 57)

Then, exclude any that are not within these ranges.
crown angle 34-35 degrees
pavilion angle 40.6 - 41 degrees
lower crown pairs better with higher pavilion and vice versa (34 w/41 pav and 35 w/40.6 pav)

I usually avoid anything with clouds or 'additional clouds' for SI2.

What's left is what I look at (plus or minus a few variations)

Thank you! I will try those parameters.

 

[msop04]

@FlyAK, what is your budget for the total ring? Also, do you think you will upgrade in the future?

 

[msop04]

Thank you all for your advice. I spoke with my fiance and we have decided to return the ring.

While I like the 3 stone settings, I think they may be out of our budget right now. I am leaning toward getting a nicer single round diamond in a cathedral setting for now, with the option of upgrading later for an anniversary. I would like to stay under $7000.

Would these diamonds be any good?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3279505

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3252977

A big NO on both of these diamonds. I didn't even look at the cut, because, they are both IGI graded. You want to stick with GIA/AGS. Also, the clarity is an issue on both of them. The first one is questionably eye clean, but the second has horrendous inclusions that will NOT be eye clean.

 

[baby monster]

Your guy sounds like a winner for being open to a return of original ER and looking for replacement ring that's better suited for daily wear. So many women come to PS concerned about their engagement ring but also afraid to bring up the issues with their fiance. He should get brownie points for being so understanding

 

[SimoneDi]

Great decision to return and start fresh and 7k is a healthy budget! In my opinion, you can safely drop to I color as that would still be very white especially in a solitaire and will allow you to get a slightly larger diamond.

 

[tyty333]

If you are planning on upgrading you need to work with someone that has a good upgrade policy.
Whiteflash has the best policy with just pick out any stone that is more than the one you originally purchased. Not
sure how much you're looking at spending on the setting.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950131.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3646312.htm ask about eye-cleanliness

Possible settings
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7241-solitaire-engagement-ring-3991.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1416.htm not cathedral but nice
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7242-solitaire-engagement-ring-3996.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/comfort-fit-surprise-diamond-ring-183.htm not cathedral but also nice

At James Allen you have to spend twice the amount of your original stone to upgrade. They will have plenty to pick from.

Edit...BTW, I think you are making a wise decision to return. We never realize how much wear and tear our rings get.

 

[msop04]

If you are planning on upgrading you need to work with someone that has a good upgrade policy.
Whiteflash has the best policy with just pick out any stone that is more than the one you originally purchased. Not
sure how much you're looking at spending on the setting.

Possible settings
https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7241-solitaire-engagement-ring-3991.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/contemporary-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1416.htm not cathedral but nice
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7242-solitaire-engagement-ring-3996.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/comfort-fit-surprise-diamond-ring-183.htm not cathedral but also nice

Great finds by @tyty333!!

Of these, this one sooo pretty! I love the taper at the basket.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1416.htm

This one looks the same from the top, only 4 prongs, if you prefer that to 6.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm

 

[msop04]

If you are planning on upgrading you need to work with someone that has a good upgrade policy.
Whiteflash has the best policy with just pick out any stone that is more than the one you originally purchased. Notsure how much you're looking at spending on the setting.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3646312.htm

To me, this is a no-brainer. This is gorgeous, super ideal, and nice spread. It would look fab in a soli and amazing in a three stone if you decide to change the setting later on down the road.

 

[SimoneDi]

To me, this is a no-brainer. This is gorgeous, super ideal, and nice spread. It would look fab in a soli and amazing in a three stone if you decide to change the setting later on down the road.

I second your opinion! Gorgeous diamond!

 

[FlyAK]

Your guy sounds like a winner for being open to a return of original ER and looking for replacement ring that's better suited for daily wear. So many women come to PS concerned about their engagement ring but also afraid to bring up the issues with their fiance. He should get brownie points for being so understanding

He is an amazing guy! I'm so happy we are able to easily have open and honest discussions. He is a little hurt that he didn't pick out the perfect ring, but is thankful we found out now before any future issues with the ring.

To me, this is a no-brainer. This is gorgeous, super ideal, and nice spread. It would look fab in a soli and amazing in a three stone if you decide to change the setting later on down the road.

Wow, this one looks beautiful! I don't know much about picking diamonds, but it seems perfect. From what I'm reading, White flash and Brian Gavin seem to be good dealers.

I really like the option to upgrade in the future. I'm 33, and something I like now might not be suitable in 10+ years. My budget is around 7k, but can go up to 8k if needed, as we still have to leave money for the bands.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[msop04]

He is an amazing guy! I'm so happy we are able to easily have open and honest discussions. He is a little hurt that he didn't pick out the perfect ring, but is thankful we found out now before any future issues with the ring.

Wow, this one looks beautiful! I don't know much about picking diamonds, but it seems perfect. From what I'm reading, White flash and Brian Gavin seem to be good dealers.

I really like the option to upgrade in the future. I'm 33, and something I like now might not be suitable in 10+ years. My budget is around 7k, but can go up to 8k if needed, as we still have to leave money for the bands.

Thank you all for your help.

OP, I'd get this combo in a heartbeat! If I weren't "locked in" with Diamonds Direct for my upgrade(s), I'd soooo be working with WF. Your fiancé sounds like a keeper -- good guy!

ETA: I was 33 when I got married too! And trust me when I say, there will be upgrades!

 

[msop04]

Also wanted to add that with a solitaire, the choices for bands are pretty much endless.

 

[FlyAK]

I've been trying to educate myself on what to look for in buying a diamond, as this will be my first real purchase. I know cut is very important. Will the 'hearts and arrows' be visible? Or does it just indicate a superior cut with more sparkle?

 

[tyty333]

The arrows are visible from the top and the hearts are visible from the bottom however, once its set you wont be able to see the hearts.

There is a lot of info on the Whiteflash website on cut/ACA - A Cut Above/AGS000/H&A etc. Its a good place to start.
If you have any questions, you can call or chat with WF. A lot of PSers have ACAs...
https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds/

 

[KristinTech]

I would still take a bunch of pics with it as the ring he used for the proposal before you return it!

 

[FlyAK]

Thank you all for your help. I am getting ready to purchase this diamond from your recommendations, but would like to get another option, just to ease my mind. Is there anything I should be worried about or do you have a better suggestion?

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3646312.htm

 

[SimoneDi]

If you are willing to drop down to J color (which especially in a solitaire I still consider that it looks very white) then you can get a cleaner and larger stone: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947599.htm
I personally prefer the J because you will get more diamond and I don’t like crystal table inclusions, but in reality both stones will be eye-clean. It is 0.2mm larger in diameter which I think is noticeable. You can ask WF for a picture comparison. However, the best thing about WF is their generous return and upgrade policies, so don’t fear to buy, the worst thing that can happen is needing to exchange the stone.

P.S. did you successfully return the first ring?