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Emeralds... Oh emeralds... *sigh*

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
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650
Can someone tell me if they can now make synthetic emeralds with surface reaching inclusions please? Thanks!

I should add: Do they often do this? Are such stones normally thrown out? Or are they passed off as natural?
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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They do make synthetic emeralds with inclusions, so I would imagine that yes, they could be surface reaching. I don't see why they wouldn't.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
With unset emeralds it's pretty easy to spot the synthetics and simulants.

With set stones it can be a nightmare as there are some really good simulants.

Things to look for - can you see what looks like 'heat haze' or 'chevron' pattern within the stone? Spiky inclusions that look like nails? Wispy clouds that look like cigarette smoke? Crazed sufrace? Fractures within the stone that look dark green?

What other inclusions can you see? You only need a x10 loupe for this btw.
 

Richard M.

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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1,104
soberguy|1307760741|2943053 said:
Can someone tell me if they can now make synthetic emeralds with surface reaching inclusions please? Thanks!
I should add: Do they often do this? Are such stones normally thrown out? Or are they passed off as natural?

Let me reply with a story. Some years back when quantities of hydrothermal lab-grown emerald came onto the wholesale market, I thought it might be worth supplying in cut form to people wishing a relatively inexpensive alternative to mined stones. I found a supplier who offered 3 grades of rough. The 1st and most expensive was almost free of inclusions. The 2nd grade was about 80% inclusion-free. Both of those were nearly always available.

The 3rd grade had fine color along with numerous surface-reaching fractures similar to most mined stones. In fact a fairly large percentage of the lab-grown stones fall into that category. The supplier told me he could never guarantee availability of that grade because nearly all of it went immediately to overseas cutting factories as quickly as it was produced. You can draw your own conclusions. I decided to avoid a product with that much potential for fraud.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)
 

ooo~Shiney!

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
1,501
Richard M.|1307812545|2943335 said:
soberguy|1307760741|2943053 said:
Can someone tell me if they can now make synthetic emeralds with surface reaching inclusions please? Thanks!
I should add: Do they often do this? Are such stones normally thrown out? Or are they passed off as natural?

Let me reply with a story. Some years back when quantities of hydrothermal lab-grown emerald came onto the wholesale market, I thought it might be worth supplying in cut form to people wishing a relatively inexpensive alternative to mined stones. I found a supplier who offered 3 grades of rough. The 1st and most expensive was almost free of inclusions. The 2nd grade was about 80% inclusion-free. Both of those were nearly always available.

The 3rd grade had fine color along with numerous surface-reaching fractures similar to most mined stones. In fact a fairly large percentage of the lab-grown stones fall into that category. The supplier told me he could never guarantee availability of that grade because nearly all of it went immediately to overseas cutting factories as quickly as it was produced. You can draw your own conclusions. I decided to avoid a product with that much potential for fraud.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

Wow, How crazy is that ?!?!?!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 22, 2004
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38,364
Definitely! :blackeye:
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
I wish I had the money to send this for testing, but I really just don't have it right now... I am seeing rod shapes, and what I think are "three phase inclusions". And some small black somethings. No chevrons, not sure what the others are that you mentioned. Seeing fingerprint looking stuff. There seems to be more, but it's hard to see with this yucky microscope.
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
soberguy|1308097207|2946083 said:
I wish I had the money to send this for testing, but I really just don't have it right now... I am seeing rod shapes, and what I think are "three phase inclusions". And some small black somethings. No chevrons, not sure what the others are that you mentioned. Seeing fingerprint looking stuff. There seems to be more, but it's hard to see with this yucky microscope.

That is sounding promising - most of what I listed are indicative of hydrothermal or flux melt synthetics. 3-phase would indicate natural and Colombian origin - cavity with crystal and bubble (the bubble often moves which is cool). Are the rod shapes parallel to each other? If so they could well be monophase hollow or liquid-filled tubes and again indicative of natural emerald.
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
Here are some pictures of what I'm seeing. Will try to get better ones tonight :???: .

011 (400x300).jpg

004 (400x300) (2).jpg

007 (400x300).jpg
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
If you can get better ones...

Oh, do the black inclusions look anything like mica flakes? Any slight metallic-like lustre if you move it about?
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
I just can't get any to come out... Trying, but out of 50 pictures, those were the best lol! I'm using my camera against the lens of the microscope.
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
Easily the most difficult time I have had getting a picture lol! I need a new microscope! Anyway... Here are three more.

096 (400x300).jpg

097 (400x300).jpg

111 (400x300).jpg
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
I'm afraid you will need to send that one off. If I had it in my hand I could do it but not from photos.

I'll rule out hydrothermal emerald as it doesn't have any of the characteristics, but it could be flux-melt which often shows inclusions that look like twisting whispy smoke and black platy inclusions which are platinum crystals from the crucible they cook in. I'm not seeing anything that looks like a 3-phase in the photos. Parallel lines could be monophase but I'd want a closer look.

So, sorry I'm not that much help!

Any idea what happens under a chelsea colour filter?
 

Pandora II

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
9,613
Can you describe them in words?

I have some very nice stones from the guy that owns that site. He has some of the best I know of in London - his retail site is called TopGem, but that one is great for info and inclusion pics.
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
The are all slightly tilted from the top of the stone to the bottom. Some reach the surface, and there is an indentation when they do... a "crack" for lack of a better term. They seem to be made up of various very small shapes, and each component shape shines when the light hits it... One has a rod running perpendicular to it, and I'm not sure it has anything to do with it at all... Some are straight, and a couple are somewhat L shaped. This is actually a hard thing to describe...

Also was able to take a picture of these... No clue what they are :???:

002 (400x300).jpg
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
650
Well I managed to get a couple of pictures... they are NOT very good, but I think they give the general idea...

003 (400x300).jpg

004 (400x300) (2).jpg
 
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