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Emerald Cut Advice - EM1, you around?

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happydreams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
321
Hi Everyone!

Just wanted to see which diamond you all thought looks better. I just followed the advice for emeralds on the "knowledge" tab above and picked 2 diamonds from bluenile. Which would you choose? I think both are OK as far as budget goes, so it''s just a matter finding the winner diamond. EM1 is usually so helpful with these emerald threads...you around?


-Happy






LD01464744


LD01005587




Price:





$9,670


$11,306




Carat Weight:





1.46


1.60




Cut:





Very Good


Very Good




Color:





G


G




Clarity:





VVS2


VS1




Polish:





Very Good


Very Good




Symmetry:





Very Good


Very Good




L/W Ratio:





1.44


1.26




Grading Report:





GIA


GIA




Depth %:





66.0


64.8




Table %:





65.0


63.0




Measurements:





7.86 x 5.44 x 3.59 mm


7.66 x 6.08 x 3.94 mm




Fluorescence:





None


None




Girdle:





Very Thick to Very Thick


Thin to Medium




Culet:





Very Small


None
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Unfortunately we need detailed pictures to be able to judge these shapes and BN don''t provide them.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Both stones have potential but BN does not provide pictures and pictures are a MUST to make the final decision. The facet pattern must be viewed and the crown height checked.
 

emeraldlover1

Ideal_Rock
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happydreams, I''m here! Congratulations on looking for an emeraldcut stone. They are so much fun. As the others mentioned, I can''t really give you any advice without seeing the stone first. Personally, I like the shape on the second one much better but that is because I perfer a shorter emerald. It all depends on what you like. The stats are good on both but I don''t think you need the vvs1 clarity. I''ll look around and see if there are any other options I can suggest for you.

Kittybean has a really nice emerald from blue nile and her fiance picked it out for her. They have quality stones but they don''t give you pictures which means if you buy from them you are taking a huge gamble that you will like the patterns.
 

emeraldlover1

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chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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EM,
Picture 2 is pretty darn magnified; my guess is that it won''t be noticeable in person. This EC has been blown up at least 50X.
Of course, it''s still a good idea to ask JA if it''s eye clean. Eye clean from 6" away or 12" away?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/3/2009 8:35:01 AM
Author: Chrono
Both stones have potential but BN does not provide pictures and pictures are a MUST to make the final decision. The facet pattern must be viewed and the crown height checked.
Then you need a Sarin for that and BN don''t use those either.
 

emeraldlover1

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/3/2009 9:04:29 AM
Author: Chrono
EM,
Picture 2 is pretty darn magnified; my guess is that it won''t be noticeable in person. This EC has been blown up at least 50X.
Of course, it''s still a good idea to ask JA if it''s eye clean. Eye clean from 6'' away or 12'' away?
I totally agree but its bothering me that it is smack dab in the middle. I guess I''d still want to know cause if it were my stone I''d probably keep looking for it since it appears to be a black carbon spot? Is that right?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/3/2009 8:57:46 AM
Author: emeraldlover1
I''m not an expert but right now I''m digging this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1185989.asp

and

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1060753.asp

If the two I think I slightly perfer the first. The inclusion in the second one is pretty noticible so you''d have to confirm with JA that it is eye clean. The patterns on the first one are nice but I''d ask for an asset and more pictures.
The first has potential, looks nice! JA don''t do ASET regrettably but they can provide Idealscope, as we know not as useful with fancy shapes but would give more info.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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42,064
Date: 2/3/2009 9:13:41 AM
Author: emeraldlover1


Date: 2/3/2009 9:04:29 AM
Author: Chrono
EM,
Picture 2 is pretty darn magnified; my guess is that it won't be noticeable in person. This EC has been blown up at least 50X.
Of course, it's still a good idea to ask JA if it's eye clean. Eye clean from 6' away or 12' away?
I totally agree but its bothering me that it is smack dab in the middle. I guess I'd still want to know cause if it were my stone I'd probably keep looking for it since it appears to be a black carbon spot? Is that right?
I would ask about that inclusion too EL, that is a sizeable diamond and it is possible it might be visible in some instances depending on various factors, so asking JA would be prudent if considering for purchase.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/3/2009 9:13:41 AM
Author: emeraldlover1

Date: 2/3/2009 9:04:29 AM
Author: Chrono
EM,
Picture 2 is pretty darn magnified; my guess is that it won''t be noticeable in person. This EC has been blown up at least 50X.
Of course, it''s still a good idea to ask JA if it''s eye clean. Eye clean from 6'' away or 12'' away?
I totally agree but its bothering me that it is smack dab in the middle. I guess I''d still want to know cause if it were my stone I''d probably keep looking for it since it appears to be a black carbon spot? Is that right?
Yup, never hurts to double check and be 100% sure.
 

happydreams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
321
Thanks for the feedback! I live in NYC so GOG might be the best to look at.
However, we have only looked for 1 day so I think I''m going to have to adjust my expectations during the search.
I told him I''d rather go down on color and clarity and go bigger on size. I''m hoping to get 1.5 carats (or 1.45 or 1.55 if you get the idea)since EC''s tend to look kind of small if they''re not a certain size. It''s a bummer that blue nile doesn''t post pictures!!

Emerald lovers - when you chose your ring, which aspects did you prioritize?
My priorities are like this:

-Cut (does cut matter for EC''s as much as it does for Rounds? I keep reading how for rounds, the cut is crucial. I''m aiming for Ideal but should I aim for Very good so I can keep my budget flexible?)
-Carat (preference mentioned above - 1.5)
-Clarity (Vs1 or Vs2)
-Color (G,H). He doesn''t want to go below G though but I''ll have to campaign hard to consider H and I.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
37,363
Because ECS are step cuts, it's even more crucial to get an ideal cut (or as close to it as possible). I believe one can get away with a VG on rounds but not ECs, otherwise, all you'll get is the glassy look.
Clarity of VS2 should be fine for most ECs.
Some are okay with an I. For that size, I recommend G and H to be safe, but it depends on your colour tolerance.

Since you live in NYC, try Mark in the diamond district. He's found many Pricescopers excellent cushions and emerald cuts. You'll need to make an appointment though. Since he's right in the DD, he has access to tons of stones and he's got an excellent eye for the best cut stones.

GOG is on Long Island. A bit further but also a very good store. It's best to give Jon a heads up so he can source several ECs for you to look at when you are ready to make the drive to their store.
 

emeraldlover1

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 2/3/2009 10:32:48 AM
Author: happydreams
Thanks for the feedback! I live in NYC so GOG might be the best to look at.
However, we have only looked for 1 day so I think I'm going to have to adjust my expectations during the search.
I told him I'd rather go down on color and clarity and go bigger on size. I'm hoping to get 1.5 carats (or 1.45 or 1.55 if you get the idea)since EC's tend to look kind of small if they're not a certain size. It's a bummer that blue nile doesn't post pictures!!

Emerald lovers - when you chose your ring, which aspects did you prioritize?
My priorities are like this:

-Cut (does cut matter for EC's as much as it does for Rounds? I keep reading how for rounds, the cut is crucial. I'm aiming for Ideal but should I aim for Very good so I can keep my budget flexible?)
-Carat (preference mentioned above - 1.5)
-Clarity (Vs1 or Vs2)
-Color (G,H). He doesn't want to go below G though but I'll have to campaign hard to consider H and I.
First off...call Mark at ERD. His prices were competitive with JA when we were looking and he's in our neigborhood, I'm in nyc too. GOG is close too but in our case my fiance delt with them and they were priced slightly higher. In the end Mark brought in a stone for us that was actually on the JA virtual inventory as well as his. It wasn't expected since we brought in a few stones but that is the one we incedentley chose.

Second this was the way I prioritized: CUT! Yes, hugely important with any diamond!! The first one from JA is EX/EX on polish and symmetry and that I really love. Next Carat....I would be lying if I said I didn't want the biggest stone our money could buy. Its just what I wanted. Then Clarity. Then Color (mine is a J) if you want, I can meet you sometime and you can see it in person since we live so close. We just have to pick a crowded place but my fiance works over in Rock center close to the DD so it would be very easy for me to meet you sometime.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/3/2009 10:32:48 AM
Author: happydreams
Thanks for the feedback! I live in NYC so GOG might be the best to look at.
However, we have only looked for 1 day so I think I'm going to have to adjust my expectations during the search.
I told him I'd rather go down on color and clarity and go bigger on size. I'm hoping to get 1.5 carats (or 1.45 or 1.55 if you get the idea)since EC's tend to look kind of small if they're not a certain size. It's a bummer that blue nile doesn't post pictures!!

Emerald lovers - when you chose your ring, which aspects did you prioritize?
My priorities are like this:

-Cut (does cut matter for EC's as much as it does for Rounds? I keep reading how for rounds, the cut is crucial. I'm aiming for Ideal but should I aim for Very good so I can keep my budget flexible?)

Be careful here as some vendors use the term Ideal Cut loosely and this is no guarantee of a well cut diamond! There isn't a ' recipe' you can follow with numbers regrettably either which will get you a well cut EC, so approach labels such as Ideal Cut, Premium Cut with extreme caution and preferably work with a vendor who has in house diamonds and can provide all the info you need such as detailed photos and ASET images to help you choose.

-Carat (preference mentioned above - 1.5)
-Clarity (Vs1 or Vs2) This sounds fine, rarely are SI clarities eyeclean in these shapes.
-Color (G,H). He doesn't want to go below G though but I'll have to campaign hard to consider H and I.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,363
EM,
I don't think one needs an EX/EX in order to get an excellently cut EC. Mine's a VG/VG and it sparkles like crazy. It also meets all the other criteria of table, depth, crown, etc and does well on the ASET and IS. I would want to open up my options as much as possible. To get a well cut EC with EX/EX will be very difficult.

HP,
Mark is at www.engagementringsdirect.com
 

happydreams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
321
Date: 2/3/2009 10:42:32 AM
Author: emeraldlover1

Date: 2/3/2009 10:32:48 AM
Author: happydreams
Thanks for the feedback! I live in NYC so GOG might be the best to look at.
However, we have only looked for 1 day so I think I''m going to have to adjust my expectations during the search.
I told him I''d rather go down on color and clarity and go bigger on size. I''m hoping to get 1.5 carats (or 1.45 or 1.55 if you get the idea)since EC''s tend to look kind of small if they''re not a certain size. It''s a bummer that blue nile doesn''t post pictures!!

Emerald lovers - when you chose your ring, which aspects did you prioritize?
My priorities are like this:

-Cut (does cut matter for EC''s as much as it does for Rounds? I keep reading how for rounds, the cut is crucial. I''m aiming for Ideal but should I aim for Very good so I can keep my budget flexible?)
-Carat (preference mentioned above - 1.5)
-Clarity (Vs1 or Vs2)
-Color (G,H). He doesn''t want to go below G though but I''ll have to campaign hard to consider H and I.
First off...call Mark at ERD. His prices were competitive with JA when we were looking and he''s in our neigborhood, I''m in nyc too. GOG is close too but in our case my fiance delt with them and they were priced slightly higher. In the end Mark brought in a stone for us that was actually on the JA virtual inventory as well as his. It wasn''t expected since we brought in a few stones but that is the one we incedentley chose.

Second this was the way I prioritized: CUT! Yes, hugely important with any diamond!! The first one from JA is EX/EX on polish and symmetry and that I really love. Next Carat....I would be lying if I said I didn''t want the biggest stone our money could buy. Its just what I wanted. Then Clarity. Then Color (mine is a J) if you want, I can meet you sometime and you can see it in person since we live so close. We just have to pick a crowded place but my fiance works over in Rock center close to the DD so it would be very easy for me to meet you sometime.
You''re too sweet, EM1. I wouldn''t ask you to meet up just yet, b/c it''s soooo early in the search, but I''ll keep the offer in mind.

Right now I''m still in the education phase.

Do you mind if I ask - what was your threshold for clarity? What was the absolute lowest clarity you would consider?
 

emeraldlover1

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
2,913
Date: 2/3/2009 10:49:10 AM
Author: happydreams

Date: 2/3/2009 10:42:32 AM
Author: emeraldlover1


Date: 2/3/2009 10:32:48 AM
Author: happydreams
Thanks for the feedback! I live in NYC so GOG might be the best to look at.
However, we have only looked for 1 day so I think I''m going to have to adjust my expectations during the search.
I told him I''d rather go down on color and clarity and go bigger on size. I''m hoping to get 1.5 carats (or 1.45 or 1.55 if you get the idea)since EC''s tend to look kind of small if they''re not a certain size. It''s a bummer that blue nile doesn''t post pictures!!

Emerald lovers - when you chose your ring, which aspects did you prioritize?
My priorities are like this:

-Cut (does cut matter for EC''s as much as it does for Rounds? I keep reading how for rounds, the cut is crucial. I''m aiming for Ideal but should I aim for Very good so I can keep my budget flexible?)
-Carat (preference mentioned above - 1.5)
-Clarity (Vs1 or Vs2)
-Color (G,H). He doesn''t want to go below G though but I''ll have to campaign hard to consider H and I.
First off...call Mark at ERD. His prices were competitive with JA when we were looking and he''s in our neigborhood, I''m in nyc too. GOG is close too but in our case my fiance delt with them and they were priced slightly higher. In the end Mark brought in a stone for us that was actually on the JA virtual inventory as well as his. It wasn''t expected since we brought in a few stones but that is the one we incedentley chose.

Second this was the way I prioritized: CUT! Yes, hugely important with any diamond!! The first one from JA is EX/EX on polish and symmetry and that I really love. Next Carat....I would be lying if I said I didn''t want the biggest stone our money could buy. Its just what I wanted. Then Clarity. Then Color (mine is a J) if you want, I can meet you sometime and you can see it in person since we live so close. We just have to pick a crowded place but my fiance works over in Rock center close to the DD so it would be very easy for me to meet you sometime.
You''re too sweet, EM1. I wouldn''t ask you to meet up just yet, b/c it''s soooo early in the search, but I''ll keep the offer in mind.

Right now I''m still in the education phase.

Do you mind if I ask - what was your threshold for clarity? What was the absolute lowest clarity you would consider?
VS2. I personally wouldn''t go below that for mind clean sake. You can probably find and eye clean SI1 but my instinct tells me that you''ll find an I VS1 or 2 before you come across a SI1 G.

Seriously, call Mark. He is so easy to work with and he gets right back to you and could proabably have stones in this week for you if you are intrested.
 

emeraldlover1

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
2,913
Date: 2/3/2009 10:47:29 AM
Author: Chrono
EM,
I don't think one needs an EX/EX in order to get an excellently cut EC. Mine's a VG/VG and it sparkles like crazy. It also meets all the other criteria of table, depth, crown, etc and does well on the ASET and IS. I would want to open up my options as much as possible. To get a well cut EC with EX/EX will be very difficult.

HP,
Mark is at www.engagementringsdirect.com
I agree it doesn't need to be EX/EX...what I said was the one above is an EX/EX and I love that. Not that it is necessary.

ETA...I simply put that because I think the first one from JA might be worth looking at. Its also in a virtual inventory so ERD might be able to bring that one in as well.
 

bgray

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
1,960
EC''s as well as all step cuts are very much eye of the beholder. my stone is good/good and is truly exceptional. there are many good/good current and vintage Harry winston and cartier rings out there. do not limit yourself to those parameters or you could overlook some great stones. step cuts are harder to polish evenly so there may be small areas that account for the good grading that have nothing to do with the overall quality of the stone. i looked and looked for stones for a long time..before i found mine and i learned a lot about the step cuts--its a bit different than with rounds
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
Excellent post Bgray!
I agree- there are many stunning stones with Good polish and symmetry.
IN terms of clarity, there''s no question some people prefer a VS or VVS stone, it''s an individual taste issue. But if you are not among those who has to have VS, and you are working with someone who can actually look at the stones- or you can see them yourself, I''d also suggest broadening the search to include both SI1 and SI2.
There are many eye clean stones in these grades.

I also agree that trying to buy such a stone blind ( with no photos) seems risky.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/3/2009 12:10:11 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Excellent post Bgray!
I agree- there are many stunning stones with Good polish and symmetry.
IN terms of clarity, there's no question some people prefer a VS or VVS stone, it's an individual taste issue. But if you are not among those who has to have VS, and you are working with someone who can actually look at the stones- or you can see them yourself, I'd also suggest broadening the search to include both SI1 and SI2.
There are many eye clean stones in these grades.

I also agree that trying to buy such a stone blind ( with no photos) seems risky.
Interesting, it seems to be rarely the case from what I have seen here that posters have found totally eyeclean SI step cuts, particularly in the larger sizes, hence the usual advice to stick to VS and above. Do you have a good percentage which are totally eyeclean David?
 

bgray

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
1,960
i have a vs2--it is 100% eyeclean and in fact i still -and neither can anyone else who has looked at it--can't believe that its not a vs1. i looked at vvs stones where i could easily see the inclusions. i think the location of the inclusions and the type of inclusions are extremely important factors. ie, are the inclusions in the perimeter? are they near the table or obscured by a facet and so on. also-is it a crystal, needle or cloud. is it black or clear. these things are often difficult to discern by viewing a cert --and where the importance of your vendor and having a trustworthy vendor who can do the checking for you, come into play. i have learned to be more flexible and open minded to color, clarity etc. i started out my diamond journey with a D vvs stone that looked like a hunk of cloudy plastic............it was so poorly cut
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
Date: 2/3/2009 12:16:31 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 2/3/2009 12:10:11 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Excellent post Bgray!
I agree- there are many stunning stones with Good polish and symmetry.
IN terms of clarity, there''s no question some people prefer a VS or VVS stone, it''s an individual taste issue. But if you are not among those who has to have VS, and you are working with someone who can actually look at the stones- or you can see them yourself, I''d also suggest broadening the search to include both SI1 and SI2.
There are many eye clean stones in these grades.

I also agree that trying to buy such a stone blind ( with no photos) seems risky.
Interesting, it seems to be rarely the case that posters have found totally eyeclean SI step cuts, particularly in the larger sizes, hence the usual advice to stick to VS and above. Do you have a good percentage which are totally eyeclean David?
Yes- but it''s important to remember that we buy the diamonds in person.

Let''s look at the logistics of how stones come to market: Cutters cut the diamonds, and need to sell their stones ASAP. The first step is seeing if there''s a dealer willing to purchase. Once a dealer purchases the diamond, the cutter is off the hook, and can go on the the next stone.
If that plan fails, the stone can end up on one of the "lists".
There are dealers who stock diamonds, and put them on lists, but more common is the BN model- where the internet seller has the list of stones, but don''t buy one till someone buys it off the site., This model means that there is a possibility that stones on lists such as BN are going to be the ones rejected by dealers.
So- if a dealer is looking at two diamonds- a VVS1 and an SI2- the SI2 might be eye clean- and half the price of the VVS- makes it a really good stone for a store, or dealer to put in stock.
Which is also a personal preference of mine.
If we have a given budget to purchase stones for our stock, I''d prefer to buy 5 eye clean SI diamonds versus 2 or 3 VVS or VS stones.

This can easily translate to the consumer who might have the choice of buying a 1.50 VS, or a 2.00 SI.

The advice frequently given here is good- because if you have to buy blind, clearly it''s safer to go VS- but I''d also say that buying blind is unwise.....
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
37,363
Even when I have shopped in person, I did not find a single eye clean SI EC. Maybe I''m too eagle eyed. What is your definition of eye clean? 12" away? For me it''s 6" away.
 
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