Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond information

[tuck2013]

I wanted to share this email I received from WhiteFlash after I requested pictures and Idealscopes for 3 diamonds. Others may be aware, but I found this pretty shocking. WF says they can't even send pictures unless I pay the entire price of the diamond first. I requested pictures an Idealscopes from a few other sites and all of them are getting the information for me within a couple days. If this is a Whiteflash policy, it is foolish and unprofessional. I know they won't be getting business from me.


Thank you for contacting Whiteflash for your diamond. Here are the three diamonds you asked about. I have attached copies of the GIA report.

We require full payment prior to bringing in a Virtual diamond, we will process the diamond and send you the full image package including a 40x picture, Idealscope and ASET images and our analysis of the diamond. If you decide not to purchase the diamond after our analysis, we will refund 100% of your money.
These Virtual diamonds are not part of our in-house stock so we cannot supply the pictures unless we bring in the diamond. Let me know if you want us to bring in a diamond?

Sincerely,

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

It costs them money to pull in a virtual diamond so I don't see that as unreasonable? Could you not find anything in stock?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Wf has always charged a fee for bringing in outside diamonds. The value of using wf is for their in house ACA and expert selection inventory.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

If this is a Whiteflash policy, it is foolish and unprofessional.

Maybe you have a different definition of 'professional,' but this is how virtual inventory works for any industry.

If you'd like to avoid this issue, find an in-house diamond. There are many available.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Wf has always charged a fee for bringing in outside diamonds. The value of using wf is for their in house ACA and expert selection inventory.

^^^THIS^^^^ It cost money for WF to bring in stones and to complete a thorough gemological evaluation on them.

WF responds in this thread stating their reasoning for the policy, you may find it helpful.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-had-this-experience-with-whiteflash.183806/#post-3347039#p3347039']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-had-this-experience-with-whiteflash.183806/#post-3347039#p3347039[/URL]

 

[tuck2013]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

I use WhiteFlash because they have superior stones specially cut for their inventory. Their ACA diamonds are among the best cut modern round brilliants in the world. It really does not make sense to me to use WF for virtual diamonds since they are in Houston (unless the buyer is in that area and wants to go see the stone in person). Choose a NY jeweler where they can easily pick up the stones. I never, ever even look at anything on the WF site other than their in-house stones which are superior to most stones on a virtual list.

If you found another vendor who would supply you with what you need, why did you ask WF at all? You don't need to work with multiple vendors to call in virtual stones.

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

So sorry, your loss. Their in house selection is phenomenal.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

no company really has a free, all the images you want! policy. WF's pictures are so good that other, less scrupulous companies rip off WF's images quite often.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

It appears that WF has chosen to focus on their incredible in-house selection of ACA's and Expert Selection stones. It's an enormous investment on the part of a vendor to not only have so many options available in house but to also supply the additional gemological evaluations, light performance testing and photography of each and every one. In order for them to continue to supply the same level of service for every virtual stone request is a huge expense for them, and they likely would have to pass that expense onto the consumer. You may or may not have noticed that WF has some of the best upgrade, trade in and buy back programs of any other vendor as well and in my opinion this adds additional value.

It appears that WF may not be the vendor for you and that is fine, there are many other vendors to choose from, but you will notice that they also come with limitations. JA limits IS images and gemological evaluations to three stones, BN doesn't even supply IS or ASET images and the gemological assessment for virtual stones is limited to the dealers opinion. B2C has some of the worst images I've seen of any vendor, others supply HA images and try to pass them off as idealscope images, and this doesn't even take their additional policies into consideration. These may be better options for you, but it certainly doesn't make WF any less professional, it makes them more consumer friendly.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

It's because the diamond is not in their inventory. There is a huge difference between having to call in a stone and doing an assessment vs. having the stone in their hand and providing you with detailed info. I understand your point as well but it is a cost of doing business and to keep their margins in line, they can't continually call in stones and provide info on them free of charge.

 

[darkadam]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

If you found another vendor who would supply you with what you need, why did you ask WF at all? You don't need to work with multiple vendors to call in virtual stones.

This is the exact reason they require a deposit. Those who are serious about getting their stone won't mind or will find a way to work it out with WF. This is to prevent a million non serious people from asking for scope images. As others have mentioned, it costs money to bring in virtual stones, and while they do the whole virtual inventory bit, their main focus should be on their in-house stone. Since it's a virtual inventory, the stone should be available on other sites as well. Why would you insist WF bring it in for you. There would be no difference between them and other vendors. UNLESS you accept that their photography is better, in which case this would be because Of their equipment and photographer, both me which cost money. You could go to b2c and sure they'll bring it in and take the picture, but it looks as though it was shot with a handphone camera. Good enough for some, and you get what you pay for.

 

[kenny]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

If this is a Whiteflash policy, it is foolish and unprofessional.
I know they won't be getting business from me.

It's not WF that's being foolish.
I'm sure WF is delighted they won't have to deal with you.

 

[bgray]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

you are maybe missing the point--other companies will forward pix to you from the diamond's owner and offer an assessment without seeing the stone themselves. WF doesnt do that. Superficially it may seem like a negative but most here view it as a positive.

 

[yssie]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

You don't have to buy it, literally or figuratively. The only foolish thing WF could do in this situation is not abide by their clearly stated policies.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

The OP is right, it wasn't always this way. Back in 2009, WF brought in a virtual stone for me, and I definitely did not have to pay the entire price for it before I saw images. I didn't pay a cent to see pics. Their policy back then was that I had to pay shipping to return the stone if I did not end up buying it.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Sorry, I don't buy it. Every other site is able to get pictures, but I have to pay the full price with WF before even seeing the diamond? I don't see any value to that. Why would I take a "leap of faith" with such a large purchase. I am in a good position to be able to pay the full amount if I decided to do so, but what about those that have to finance the payment? WF lost any chance of getting my business.

you are maybe missing the point--other companies will forward pix to you from the diamond's owner and offer an assessment without seeing the stone themselves. WF doesnt do that. Superficially it may seem like a negative but most here view it as a positive.

Nobody's saying it's a positive, just that it's understandable from the company's standpoint and, for many, not a huge deterrent from the consumer's standpoint.

 

[yssie]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

The OP is right, it wasn't always this way. Back in 2009, WF brought in a virtual stone for me, and I definitely did not have to pay the entire price for it before I saw images. I didn't pay a cent to see pics. Their policy back then was that I had to pay shipping to return the stone if I did not end up buying it.

I believe this was their policy in 2010 as well, when I upgraded!
But... industry standards change. Pricing policies change. I'm sure suppliers and manufacturers have changed their standards and policies since then as well. And, well, vendors are free to adjust their policies as they see fit... I don't think it's fair to hold a vendor's policies accountable to the standards of four or five years ago, any more than it's fair to expect them to accommodate the prices of four or five years ago...

 

[delight]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Nothing's wrong with what Whiteflash is doing. It's their company and they can make their own policies. That said, there's nothing wrong with what tuck2013 thinks. Some comments here seem uncalled for.

Your best bet would be to work with JamesAllen given your criteria for choosing a vendor.

 

[hawk25]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

I don't think it's reasonable to call WF's policies 'unprofessional' and 'foolish', and maybe your choice of words are causing the push-back comments. It almost sounds like you took offense by their policy. I for one have had an amazing experience with them, so I was taken aback by your strong tone. I can imagine a few business-smart reasons why WF has that policy regarding virtual stones, most of them others have already said.

They have a 100% refund policy on virtual stones, and they absorb both shipping and time/labor costs since they do imaging and a gemological review. In the thread Christina linked, a WF rep explained that it costs them $300 in shipping/handling for one virtual stone. So in a way, they are taking a leap of faith in you, they just want an assurance that you're serious about buying.

Are these policies as generous as other vendors? No. Does it make it harder for those wanting to compare 2-3 stones? Yes, but WF's business model isn't specialized in virtual stones like JA or B2C, its in their in-house stones. All in all, I think it's a reasonable policy, certainly not unprofessional.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Why don't you tell everyone exactly what you are looking for size, colour, clarity wise and your budget, the wizards on here will help you find the best possible stones most of which are probably in real inventories and then it won't be an issue.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

I use WhiteFlash because they have superior stones specially cut for their inventory. Their ACA diamonds are among the best cut modern round brilliants in the world. It really does not make sense to me to use WF for virtual diamonds since they are in Houston (unless the buyer is in that area and wants to go see the stone in person). Choose a NY jeweler where they can easily pick up the stones. I never, ever even look at anything on the WF site other than their in-house stones which are superior to most stones on a virtual list.

If you found another vendor who would supply you with what you need, why did you ask WF at all? You don't need to work with multiple vendors to call in virtual stones.

Yup!, Why go on a wild goose chase?...

 

[Smith1942]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

This is a very interesting discussion. I read the link provided above, too, where WF explains the new-this-year policy of payment upfront for diamonds that are not in stock.

I guess it does make sense, otherwise they could spend all day calling in stones for people who aren't serious about buying, and paying the $300-odd associated in costs for each stone. Of course, if a stone is chosen from the in-house inventory, then these problems don't exist!

Blue Nile has not gone down the route of providing lot of information in the form of analysis, photos, ASETs, etc - one reason why they are sometimes quite a bit cheaper than WF for an equivalent stone.

However, Blue Nile goes further. They actively discourage "comparison shopping", as they call it. This was explained to me by an SA when I was buying studs one time. If you buy two similar items - I can't remember if this applies to jewellery pieces or just diamonds, but it's happened to me - you get a phone call from them saying "Did you really mean to buy those two very similar things?" It's quite funny. Then, they try to counsel you about which is the best option for you, rather than you buying two and returning one. If you insist on buying both, I think they can't exactly stop you, but they do try to discourage such comparison shopping.

BN offers free overnight shipping on every item, no matter how small the value. (When I bought custom pieces from other PS vendors, even if the shipment was worth over 2k, it was a two-day service). Then, there are the admin costs in terms of employee time to pull both items, pay double the weight in shipping, and then process the returned item, as well as any corporate bank fees for all the money needlessly swishing back and forth between company and customer.

Basically, it's much better for BN if people get what they want with one purchase, and that's why they discourage comparison shopping. It would be interesting to know if it's still the same, but let's say you buy two diamonds of 1 carat, F, VS2, but different cut specs - table, crown, etc. - it's my understanding that you get The Call either before shipping or before payment is processed. Not really sure - it was at least three years ago that this happened to me.

So what I'm trying to say is, compared to BN's policy, it's quite lucky that other vendors allow comparison shopping at all! Theirs is a different business model, obviously, but still. We could live in a world where every vendor has that policy!

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

I never, ever even look at anything on the WF site other than their in-house stones which are superior to most stones on a virtual list.

If you found another vendor who would supply you with what you need, why did you ask WF at all? You don't need to work with multiple vendors to call in virtual stones.

+1, in a nutshell...

 

[diamondenvy1]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

I don't see anything wrong with WF's policy, in all honesty. It safeguards them from having their time frivolously wasted by noncommittal shoppers. They clearly state that if you decide not to purchase after you receive all the info you need, you get all your money back. No harm, no foul - hence you're not being roped into purchasing any stone against your will.

 

[distracts]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

The value in that is that they probably don't want to waste their time and money calling in virtual stones. It's not the focus of their business. If you want to get a stone of the virtual lists, pick a vendor whose focus is virtual stones rather than in-house branded cuts.

 

[Todd Gray]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

In the early "Wild West Days" of selling diamonds on the internet, "all of us" used to bring diamonds in for evaluation on behalf of clients without charging them for it, the premise was that it was reasonable to incur the expense, in hopes that the client would buy the diamond, and it would pencil out. The reality is that there were fewer diamond dealers online, and most of us were working from physical inventory, and would search for specific diamonds upon request.

Over the years, more and more web sites have popped up, which primarily work by republishing the MLS listing which is available to the trade by subscription, most of these companies work on very small margins, but offer literally nothing in terms of added value, such as clarity photographs, detailed proportions analysis, hands-on selection process / opinion, scope images (ASET, Ideal, H&A), video, etc., all of which takes a significant amount of time, and thus money, to produce.

Thus there is a growing gap developing between "virtual dealers" who compete on price, but who offer little, if anything in terms of details beyond the lab report; and "in-house dealers" who house physical inventory, and provide in-depth detail, which in turn, provides peace of mind... and in an effort to remain competitive with the virtual dealers, a lot of in-house dealers, have started to mirror the virtual inventory on their web sites, in an attempt to appeal to buyers who they perceive to be primarily focused on price...

And here is where the misunderstanding begins to develop... At the end of the day, all of us as consumers, want to have as much detail as possible, and get the best deal possible. So we tend to want the same level of detail that the in-house dealers provide for their in-house inventory, but at the same price that a diamond is being advertised for by a virtual dealer, who's profit structure is built upon the understanding that they will never actually touch or look at the diamond, it's going to be drop shipped to their customers by the wholesaler or cutter...

So what sometimes happens, is that a consumer will ask an in-house vendor to source a virtual diamond on their behalf, expect them to do all the work, spend all the time, and all the money, use their equipment, and their resources, to provide them with in-depth evaluation of the diamond, and then once the information is provided, they never hear from the customer again... and a few days later, the cutter or wholesaler, calls the stone back, and the perception is that the customer purchased it from a virtual vendor for a few dollars less ~ and maybe this is true, and maybe it's not, but that is the perception, and since it seems to happen a lot of the time, and the stones suddenly fall of the MLS shortly after being returned, it might be an accurate perception.

And so, the majority of in-house dealers started to expect customers to underwrite their interest in a diamond, by demonstrating that they are at least serious enough about the diamond, to invest in the cost of having the diamond shipped in for evaluation... and with all of this in mind, is that really all that much to ask?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

Excellent post, Todd Gray!

 

[kenny]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

So maybe dealers like WF should just stop 'listing' virtual stones.

 

[kenny]

Re: Email from WhiteFlash after request for diamond informat

So maybe dealers like WF should just stop 'listing' virtual stones, and stop paying to be in that MLS system.