Ellen cancels Burrell after homophobic comments

[redwood66]

The fact is that the "many" Christians who oppose gay rights (per Kenny) and are apparently not capable of rational thought (per you) are in the minority among Christians -http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/... note that the study is based on 2014 data and the percentages of avowed Christians who accept homosexuality and embrace members of the LGBQT community is in all likelihood now higher than shown in the 2014 study.

I also understand your anger/frustration, at least insofar as I can as someone not directly affected by this type of discrimination. I also think though that we're dealing with sincerely held beliefs, and I'm not sure shaming or name-calling is the best approach for changing such beliefs. Dialogue, patience, education, and even just time, as people get to know more of the affected community, will help. LGBQT people's willingness to make themselves known will also help. And I hope those who are not part of a religious community will realize that many who are, are working to expand inclusion and acceptance within religious communities.

I was wondering how Ellen and Pharrel would respond to this revelation... and I think they did so with grace.

That is not what I said. I said one cannot reconcile religious tenets with rational thought. Reconcile as in to make consistent/congruous; to check against another for accuracy. Examples: virgin birth; homosexuality as sin; any miracle in the bible and known scientific principles.

Hence why it is called "Faith"

 

[OreoRosies86]

How long have you been married? Longer than the time Kenny was legally able to marry his partner?

 

[E B]

I know there's a lot to discuss here, but I'm stuck on the idea of her being "outed"- she was preaching to a congregation, no? What are the reasonable expectations of privacy when literally preaching to a crowd that (I'm assuming, I may be wrong?) is open to the public?

 

[redwood66]

I know there's a lot to discuss here, but I'm stuck on the idea of her being "outed"- she was preaching to a congregation, no? What are the reasonable expectations of privacy when literally preaching to a crowd that (I'm assuming, I may be wrong?) is open to the public?

It is a church with a reasonable expectation that this is one of the tenets it preaches. Once again, my problem is with the vitriol of the screamers, not the issue.

 

[Tekate]

Somebody recorded this woman Burrell and let it out on the net - wait !!! just like what happened to Hillary Clinton, someone broke into the DNC and released information that was personal and may have been taken out of context etc.

I don't see the two the same at all - HRC held & was running for taxpayer-held office and citizens have a right to know certain goings-on in that regard. The pastor was not, and if you want to know what goes on in church, you go.

Both had personal information/sermon/emails given to the public without their approval.. doesn't matter if they were religious or politicans, both have rights. Sometimes the ends do not justify the means.

 

[redwood66]

Somebody recorded this woman Burrell and let it out on the net - wait !!! just like what happened to Hillary Clinton, someone broke into the DNC and released information that was personal and may have been taken out of context etc.

I don't see the two the same at all - HRC held & was running for taxpayer-held office and citizens have a right to know certain goings-on in that regard. The pastor was not, and if you want to know what goes on in church, you go.

Both had personal information/sermon/emails given to the public without their approval.. doesn't matter if they were religious or politicans, both have rights. Sometimes the ends do not justify the means.

I don't know about you but I do not see religion and corruption in the same light.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Somebody recorded this woman Burrell and let it out on the net - wait !!! just like what happened to Hillary Clinton, someone broke into the DNC and released information that was personal and may have been taken out of context etc.

I don't see the two the same at all - HRC held & was running for taxpayer-held office and citizens have a right to know certain goings-on in that regard. The pastor was not, and if you want to know what goes on in church, you go.

Both had personal information/sermon/emails given to the public without their approval.. doesn't matter if they were religious or politicans, both have rights. Sometimes the ends do not justify the means.

Perhaps, but when you walk into a Christian church, it's reasonable to expect you will be 'subjected' to the teachings of that faith, which (agree or not) this pastor was.

When you look to elected officials, it's reasonable to expect they are acting in good faith to taxpayers, which HRC (or her staff) was not.

 

[telephone89]

I know there's a lot to discuss here, but I'm stuck on the idea of her being "outed"- she was preaching to a congregation, no? What are the reasonable expectations of privacy when literally preaching to a crowd that (I'm assuming, I may be wrong?) is open to the public?

This is an interesting question when looking at it in a US perspective (different from a Canadian one).

Generally you'd have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your office (desk/cabinets/etc), but even that can be negated if its company property. However once in the 'church' its technically public. Some argue that because churches are given special treatment (a1) that they deserve special treatment for privacy (a4) as well, but so far your govt hasn't agreed. There is no price of admission, there is no special checklist you have to meet to enter, there is no guest list. So that covers the 'event'. But for the 'speaker', they aren't anonymous. They are actively trying NOT to be anonymous in fact. If someone was using their image to promote something else, they'd have issues, but that relates more to the monetary gain vs the act of being filmed. If she wrote her lovely heartwarmingly hatful speech herself, posting it could be seen as copyright infringement. So overall no, it's unlikely she would have much of a reasonable expectation of privacy while doing (what boils down to) a public speech.

Anyways. I don't like the Ellen show (though I do love her) nor do I keep up with whos appearing on what shows, but she had every right not to have her. This lady can't ONLY be happy with LGTBQ when they're paying her. Greedy much?

 

[telephone89]

People want to see all religion removed from sight. The agenda driven people demand this. But their problem is that Christians make up the bulk of the electorate - hence the shaming. Too bad. Maybe in 100 years they will be the majority. Thank God I will not be here.

Wow, really? Only want to be surrounded by a christian majority? Couldn't stand the thought of living where you aren't part of the majority? That's... interesting.

The fact is that the "many" Christians who oppose gay rights (per Kenny) and are apparently not capable of rational thought (per you) are in the minority among Christians -http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/... note that the study is based on 2014 data and the percentages of avowed Christians who accept homosexuality and embrace members of the LGBQT community is in all likelihood now higher than shown in the 2014 study.

I also understand your anger/frustration, at least insofar as I can as someone not directly affected by this type of discrimination. I also think though that we're dealing with sincerely held beliefs, and I'm not sure shaming or name-calling is the best approach for changing such beliefs. Dialogue, patience, education, and even just time, as people get to know more of the affected community, will help. LGBQT people's willingness to make themselves known will also help. And I hope those who are not part of a religious community will realize that many who are, are working to expand inclusion and acceptance within religious communities.

To your first paragraph - I agree, most christians (most) are more moderate, less of the southern baptist style full on hate.
To your second paragraph - why the f*ck should I have to be nice to someone who openly hates me? Who openly says I'm going to hell? Who is openly trying to take away my rights? Who is openly NOT nice to me? I just really hate this sentiment. "Oh maybe if the slaves were nice and calmly explained their position, their slave owners would have let them go!" No thank you. I think it's great if someone WANTS to be that person, but to be expected, just because you're part of the minority is not cool. No one should shame them for wanting to distance themselves from hateful *******s.

You (collective) seem to misunderstand the concept that tolerance goes both ways. I don't have an agenda to make you go to church or stop being gay or force Ellen to have a pastor on her show. I don't give a damn about what you do with your life. But when you force your opinion on me or shame me because I do not agree with you, that is not ok.

So when someone says "hey maybe calling people fags and saying theyre going to hell isn't cool" is that forcing their opinion on you? Is saying "Whoa, did you just use the N word? That's really inappropriate" also forcing their opinion on you? Because I agree - yes it is. However I don't think its wrong to point out when someone is being a jerk.

 

[AGBF]

You (collective) seem to misunderstand the concept that tolerance goes both ways. I don't have an agenda to make you go to church or stop being gay or force Ellen to have a pastor on her show. I don't give a damn about what you do with your life. But when you force your opinion on me or shame me because I do not agree with you, that is not ok.

I understand this!!! but remember it goes back at the other side also.. when one forces an opinion, as an example, a manger scene at the local City Hall at Christmas, I don't like that, I'm a tax payer I don't want my city government advertising one religion over another, there are Hindu's in my town, muslim's, jew's and atheists. I won't let out a peep if a manger is placed at a place of worship, a K of C, a Lions Club etc.. I don't pay taxes for these organizations.

So if your opinion shames someone do you think it's not fair to retort and give another's side?

Somebody recorded this woman Burrell and let it out on the net - wait !!! just like what happened to Hillary Clinton, someone broke into the DNC and released information that was personal and may have been taken out of context etc. My point is, once it's out it's out, you cannot take it back.. for Clinton people should have been appalled that Wiki was releasing personal emails, you think this woman was in a church and she is safe from negative comments and anger by gay people and people who support gays in their quest for equal rights. She isn't because it's out, on the web, it can't come back and whoever recorded her thought she was wrong and released it to bring her down, just like Clinton was brought down. I don't know much about Burrell, maybe she is a wonderful person and made a mistake, but it's out and now her career as a professional singer may be less but she will still have her religious career and her choir etc..

I understand good people in America voted for Trump because they were afraid their religious freedoms were going to be taken away. That their bathrooms might have a transgender using it. It's all mostly based on fear.

Kate I don't care about the agenda, I care about the vitriol and intolerance with which it is delivered. The city that you speak of is not vitriolic to its citizens by having a manger. I don't really care about them having it one way or another. If it has happened for years let it be until someone in the town has a problem with it, then they can have a discussion. An outsider making a stink just because they want to make everyone succumb to their ideals is wrong.

I really feel a tug in two directions over the manger. I believe in the separation of Church and State, so I I do not think there should be a manger on public land. In fact I was angry that one of our local firehouses used to display a cross at Chritmas time and was glad when when crosses were banned from that property. Neighbors in the Italian Catholic neighborhood surrounding that firehouse responded by putting up more crosses lit for Christmas than you could shake a stick at, and that made me happy, too. In my opinion it was a celebration of what this country is supposed to be about: freedom of religion. people should not have to see displays of one religion on State land. They should be free to shout their own religious views from from their own housetops.

But the manger being removved, although I know it should be, makes me personally sad. Because I grew up in an era when Christmas pageants were put on in public schools and Christmas carols were sung there and I was not someone in a minority religion, so I did not suffer from feeling alienated by the pageants and the carols. They were wonderful to me.

But right is right and in my opinion it is enormously important to enforce the separation of Church and State. Our local Congregational Church has a beautiful live manger display that everyone in out Town can enjoy. And that is how it should be. The birth of Jesus is celebrated by Christians. They are usually very happy to share their joy at the event with anyone else who wishes to share it and will share their displays and their beautiful Christmas music free of charge.

Deb/AGBF

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I don't know what goes on in other churches, our church is never condemning of any group. In fact most of the gospel preached is just about how to get closer to God and serve him by praising him and being a good and moral person. Not all organized religion is about hate and intolerance or superiority.

A few years back I met this really cool guy at the gym, he happened to be gay but that was of little significance, he was also a hairdresser and a damn good one. Anyways, I was talking about how much my son enjoyed being around him with one of the women there I worked out with and she replied with "Oh, I would never expose my children to those people". I was so disgusted and disturbed by her comments and I honestly felt sad for Dominic. It was her loss though, he is a wonderful person AND still does great hair.

It's really an individual choice to hate other people, you can be taught but at the end of the day people need to be able to think for themselves. I can believe in God and thoroughly enjoy church and not be a hateful ignorant person.

 

[redwood66]

Hate is terrible for anyone to have in their heart. It ruins lives and relationships. My sons went to a Catholic elementary school for two years because I felt it better for them but we are not Catholic. The principal of this very small school happened to be gay and he is one of the most loving and caring people I have ever met. Everyone knew and did not care and he was hired by the Sister in charge and the Father of the church. Now this is a very small town with people from all walks of life and also very conservative red county in California. He had to leave eventually because he wanted a change and higher pay. He went into law enforcement. Everyone missed him at the school, especially the kids.

 

[azstonie]

Here's a turd for the "It's my *church*\*religion*" punchbowl: If your church does not pay taxes, then it's a public-supported institution and as such does not get to hide under 'God' to get away with hate speech, discrimination, etc.

(I firmly believe any church who pays any staff should be taxed on its income/donations. If no one gets paid and all donations go to charity, okay be tax exempt.)

You want a community where your religion determines everything and controls society, I remind you of Jonestown.

 

[redwood66]

I don't see how not condoning or agreeing with someone's lifestyle is hate. Hate is a strong accusation. Hate is the 4 people in Chicago kidnapping and torturing the mentally ill young man. Hate is Dylan Roof, Nidal Hasan, Hitler, ISIS, etc. I don't hate anyone.

Churches also provide assistance to those in need in their communities.

 

[Ella]

Everyone, I'm tired of editing out obscene language. Keep using it and you're going to get a time out. Some of those posts were deleted instead of edited.

Please be respectful and use family friendly language on this forum.

 

[redwood66]

Sorry on my part Ella.

 

[telephone89]

Here's a turd for the "It's my *church*\*religion*" punchbowl: If your church does not pay taxes, then it's a public-supported institution and as such does not get to hide under 'God' to get away with hate speech, discrimination, etc.

(I firmly believe any church who pays any staff should be taxed on its income/donations. If no one gets paid and all donations go to charity, okay be tax exempt.)

You want a community where your religion determines everything and controls society, I remind you of Jonestown.

I agree with this. Tbh I don't think churches should be able to hide from taxes, but it's so crazy to me that stuff like this happens:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/

Yes, your church needs a jet Because their current jet is too old and mechanically unsafe. Hilarious. Not taking advantage at all!

 

[Calliecake]

I just read that her radio show has also been cancelled.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I just read that her radio show has also been cancelled.

Good! You can say whatever you want, but you take the risk of getting hit in the wallet for it.

 

[missy]

Here's a turd for the "It's my *church*\*religion*" punchbowl: If your church does not pay taxes, then it's a public-supported institution and as such does not get to hide under 'God' to get away with hate speech, discrimination, etc.

(I firmly believe any church who pays any staff should be taxed on its income/donations. If no one gets paid and all donations go to charity, okay be tax exempt.)

You want a community where your religion determines everything and controls society, I remind you of Jonestown.

I agree with this. Tbh I don't think churches should be able to hide from taxes, but it's so crazy to me that stuff like this happens:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/

Yes, your church needs a jet Because their current jet is too old and mechanically unsafe. Hilarious. Not taking advantage at all!

Agreed. It is just unbelievable how "religious" institutions can get away with so much. I still have trouble understanding how the "Church of Scientology" is a tax exempt institution. Well, I guess they are really not much different than more "conventional" religions and religious institutions.

 

[missy]

I just read that her radio show has also been cancelled.

Good! You can say whatever you want, but you take the risk of getting hit in the wallet for it.

Yes good! If you preach poison you should feel the pain. But then again I am from the "religion" of an eye for an eye. I guess some things just run deep but I get a satisfaction from knowing this. You shouldn't be able to be free to hate and use hate speech IMO.

Believe what you want but don't impose that belief on others and don't think you are better for believing what you believe. Live and let live and don't try to control others actions whether it be their thoughts, their rights or their lives. Let them marry who they want, let them have babies or not, etc and don't dictate their private lives please. And don't spew hate under the guise of something else. Don't dress it up (your ugly behavior towards others) because it still is what it is yanno?



Telephone, yes to this! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Tekate]

Everyone, I'm tired of editing out obscene language. Keep using it and you're going to get a time out. Some of those posts were deleted instead of edited.

Please be respectful and use family friendly language on this forum.

I thought it was a bot! I try to use really bad words that I think are not common usage.

 

[OreoRosies86]

But the argument will ALWAYS be "Well, I don't hate anyone, I just don't agree with that gay lifestyle, don't try and force ME to agree with it!"

It does not matter if those words were spoken in or out of church. If I was a gay person and heard that, I'd think the person speaking those words had hatred for me. That's a hateful thing to do to someone.

But we live in a world where God's Not Dead runs at the local "family movie night" so what can you really expect.

 

[redwood66]

Pharrell can handle an issue without destroying someone. Wish everyone could be like that. But he loves everyone and God so he must be deluded.

http://ellentube.com/videos/0-h344ut3q/