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Eightstar question

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
606
Hi all ,

maybe a stupid qustion but I was browsing eightstar.com ,seems the only dealer is Seng jewelers in KY ,and they are selling " Seng fiery diamonds " cut by eightstar. aren't eightstar diamonds sold anywhere else ?

Thanks in advance .
 

chicam

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
200
I hear GOG does not give pricescope discount, rather they said everyone gets the pricescope discount, therefore IMO, no one gets it. Is this true or did they just spin me?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
28,950
Eightstar and Eighternity are completely different companies and diamond cuts.

GOG does not sell Eightstar.
 

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
606
I am interested in Eightstar diamonds ,not Eighternity . are they less popular now that a lot of other branded diamonds are available ?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,399
jeweln|1311619496|2976445 said:
I am interested in Eightstar diamonds ,not Eighternity . are they less popular now that a lot of other branded diamonds are available ?
i never see 8* as more popular just more expensive than other well cut stones.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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28,950
There is nothing new here, unless Seng buying the Eightstar compay is true.

Years ago I was also curious about Eightstar becuase I wanted the best.
I temporarily bought a Whiteflash ACA and a Solasfera and carried them into an Eightstar dealer to compare the cuts.

My conclusion is the ACA and Solasfera were as beautiful and as well cut, but different in personality to the Eightstar but MUCH less expensive.

I did not buy the Eightstar, sent back the ACA for a refund within the inspection period and kept the Solasfera.
Later I also bought an ACA.

I'd love to also own an Eightstar one day but I've never been one to overspend.
IMHO, Eightstar overcharges.
 

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
606
Hi ,
the reason I am interested in an eightstar is because they have a lot of dispersion (rainbows) and have a deep look like a step cut . Do any other ideals have the same look in case the eightstar prices are too much for me ?
Thanks.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
32,399
jeweln|1311636647|2976661 said:
Hi ,
the reason I am interested in an eightstar is because they have a lot of dispersion (rainbows) and have a deep look like a step cut . Do any other ideals have the same look in case the eightstar prices are too much for me ?
Thanks.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ideal-cut-solitaires-or-should-i-say-triple-ideals.39421/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ideal-cut-solitaires-or-should-i-say-triple-ideals.39421/[/URL]
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,950
You feel Eightstar round diamonds look deep like step cuts?
I can't figure out how you can think that.
I have 5 step cuts, 4 ideal-cut rounds and have seen Eightstars live and IMHO step cuts and Eightstars (or any other super ideal round) are like night and day...but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You don't need to spend the 30 or 40% extra for the Eightstar brand...

Here's how to select a well-cut round diamond:
Get the following four numbers from the lab report and enter them into the HCA (Holloway Cut Advisor):

Depth %
Table %
Crown angle in degrees
Pavilion angle in degrees

Here's a link to the HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Reject rounds that score over 2.0.
If it scores under 2.0 the next step is to get an Idealscope image. https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Compare it to this reference chart: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

11qa.jpg
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
I'm guessing you mean that when you look into the diamond, you perceive a "depth" to the gemstone?

I think that is a hallmark of very good ideal cut hearts and arrows stones. Not modified ideal hearts and arrows cuts (rosella, eighternity, solasfera, and some other marketing names I forget, all more than 57 facets) which are 'busier' so you might perceive them as not as deep? Not sure if this is what you mean.

You can get s standard 57 facet hearts and arrows without the 8star branding but with the same perfect symmetry and style of dispersion as an 8 star. Tolkowsky, ACA, hearts on fire are all 'standard' hearts and arrows cuts I believe. You will still need to cherry pick from within these if you want really perfect perfect symmetry. I personally don't have the experience or ability to sit in a jeweller's store to pick a super ideal hearts an arrows from a 99% ideal hearts and arrows stone. Which of course means that to me, they are the same. But they are not.

So your tolerances matter.
 

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
606
kenny & tristanc thanks for your replies ,

actualy in the past I have bought GIA ex ex ex (5 stone ring) ,GIA ex ex vg (pendant ), ACA studs . but still in my heart I am not satisfied .I am looking for a cut that "sings" to me .I love dispersion over white light ,and some people said looking into an eightstar is like a deep pool of water .so I am searching about eightstars now . I dont care about exact symmetry . any advise on getting a stone with more fire (dispersion)?
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
My research when i started all this was also along those lines. Going down which was the best of the best in terms of cutters. Was trying to compare all the brands (ACA, hearts on fire, perfect rose etc) and what they promised - which was typically better optics.

I personally love the smaller busier fire that is typified by Solasfera. If I didn't deviate to FCDs, I would have purchased a Solasfera diamond for the type of fire that I love in a diamond just based off videos. You can search GoodOldGold for solasfera diamonds, and share what you think after you see the videos for solasfera vs ideal hearts and arrows gems.

And if you want to go really crazy, start trying to hunt down a vivid commercially and naturally rare coloured diamond (violet, red, blue, green, pink) with ideal cut/polish. :D

That would be a worthwhile dragon to slay. Or is it a chimera.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,822
I just asked Dana Von Sternberg, CEO of Eightstar until 2010, for an update. They sold the trademark to that store in Kentucky. Eightstar suspended operations as a separate company in September 2010 and the California cutting operation has been disbanded. He and the other members of his family who were the founders of the company have moved on to other ventures outside of the jewelry industry. Eightstar as we've known it for the last few decades is no more.

I wish all the Von Sternbergs as well as the new owners of the Eightstar brand the best of luck in their new ventures.
 

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
606
well that is a sad to hear , I mean about Eightstar diamond being no more .thanks for inquiring .
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,950
Thanks for the update Neil.

How sad the brand went under, and I wish the former owners all the best.
If you talk to them again please ask them where that large natural blue Eightstar went. :naughty:
I doubt they'll tell you but what did it sell for?

I'm disappointed when something so fine ceases to be.
Goodness knows what the new owners will do with the brand name they bought, especially since they shut down the cutting facility and let the skilled cutters go.
What good is a cart without a horse?

This reminds me of what happened in the piano industry over the last 100 years.
Several piano brand names of former high-end make have been sold off.
Today pianos are being sold with those names and they are relative junk, Chickering, Knabe, Falcone.
Even Baldwin has died a slow ugly death in the last few decades.
The original factories and workers are long gone but the legendary names live on.
Sadly, brand name recognition is all it takes to sell a piano to customers who do no research and are ignorant of quality.

I'd guess Eightstars were just too expensive in the minds of the customers.
As was my experience, you can get something also fantastic much for much much less.

I'm not saying Eightstar was not better.
I'm saying either it was not better, or if it was the customers could not understand, or were not convinced enough to justify the much higher cost. (Besides, how "better or best" is measured in diamond cut is a can of worms.)
Perhaps an experienced diamond cutter, or a GG with a microscope or a Sarin machine could recognize symmetry and craftsmanship that is closer to absolute perfection than anything else, but they are not the customers.
If you spend enough time and money it may be possible to sharpen a pencil so the tip is the diameter of one single molecule of graphite - but what's the point?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
8,822
Kenny,

I haven't a clue who the new management is and what their plans for the brand are but I think it's harsh to declare them to be a bastardization of what the brand stands for without further information. It does strike me as odd that they would dissolve the entire dealer network but surely they have something in mind other than one store in Kentucky. We'll just have to wait and see. Similarly, moving manufacturing outside of the US is, frankly, just sound business and I wouldn't hold it against them. Pretty much every cutting operation in the world has done this ahead of them and all for roughly the same reasons. I suspect that the price of California labor was directly related to the asking prices you observed and those asking prices, in turn, were part of the problems that led to the sale of the brand.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
28,950
denverappraiser|1311697590|2977087 said:
Kenny,

I haven't a clue who the new management is and what their plans for the brand are but I think it's harsh to declare them to be a bastardization of what the brand stands for without further information. It does strike me as odd that they would dissolve the entire dealer network but surely they have something in mind other than one store in Kentucky. We'll just have to wait and see. Similarly, moving manufacturing outside of the US is, frankly, just sound business and I wouldn't hold it against them. Pretty much every cutting operation in the world has done this ahead of them and all for roughly the same reasons. I suspect that the price of California labor was directly related to the asking prices you observed and those asking prices, in turn, were part of the problems that led to the sale of the brand.
I wrote, "Goodness knows what the new owners will do with the brand name they bought".
That is a far cry from me declaring them to be a "bastardization".
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
8,822
What happened with the piano makers was a bastardization and that's what I was thinking of from your post. It HAS happened to a fair number of companies in other industries so it's a valid concern. Look what happened to the grand old brands in the US watch business like Hamilton. :-o

I just want to be careful not to slam them in the forum for something they haven't done. It's their company now, and it's only fair to judge them on what THEY do with it, not what they might do or even what the Von Sternbergs did.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
28,950
Agreed, granted.
My apologies if I come across as "slamming".

TIme will tell and I wish only good things for the former and new owners, and the brand itself.

The Eightstars I saw sure were fantastic! :appl:
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
Interesting. I wasn't aware of this Neil. Thanks for filling us in.

chicam|1311605504|2976331 said:
I hear GOG does not give pricescope discount, rather they said everyone gets the pricescope discount, therefore IMO, no one gets it. Is this true or did they just spin me?
This is no spin. We have many clients from around the globe and have been a bricks and mortar store for over 30 years. I'm not going to give one group of people a better price over another. That is partiality. I look at what my competitors are doing for the $$$ and for an apples for apples comparison match the PS discount price and give that to all my clients.

Do you think it would be fair if you sent your friend to me and I charged him more money because he didn't say a particular magic word? And if I did that for PS alone, how do you know that if you didn't say another different secret word that you'd get more of a discount but I wouldn't tell it to you unless you came to me via that venue?

To me its a head game and I don't play like that. I'm a straight shooter from the word go. Like one of my favorite broadcaster's says ... Welcome to the no spin zone. The spin stops here. :sun:

Kind regards,
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
32,399
Rhino|1311788934|2978120 said:
Do you think it would be fair if you sent your friend to me and I charged him more money because he didn't say a particular magic word? And if I did that for PS alone, how do you know that if you didn't say another different secret word that you'd get more of a discount but I wouldn't tell it to you unless you came to me via that venue?

To me its a head game and I don't play like that. I'm a straight shooter from the word go. Like one of my favorite broadcaster's says ... Welcome to the no spin zone. The spin stops here. :sun:

Kind regards,
sooo,if i say "Bill O" do i get a 10% discount?.. :bigsmile:
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
21,819
denverappraiser|1311682935|2976993 said:
I just asked Dana Von Sternberg, CEO of Eightstar until 2010, for an update.
Thank you, Neil. I lost track of Eightstar years ago, but Richard von Sternberg was very passionate about his "product". I hate even to call the Eightstar , "a product" within the same sentence as Richard's name. Some of the Pricescope featured sponsors used to be Eightstar vendors eons ago when it was brand new and not many cutters were cutting ideal cut diamonds themselves! Do you know where Richard is now?

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
21,819

Jaded Gem

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
199
Hi AGBF, Richard has been doing real estate for awhile even before he sold his Eight Star brand. We e-mailed back and forth a long time ago, and I said that if I ever moved to wine country then he could be my buyer's agent as he seemed like a good guy. Here's his website: http://www.californiamoves.com/Associate/AgentProfile.aspx?AgentID=3182
I hope that answers everyone's questions. From my knowledge, he's still doing this so I would guess he is successful at it despite the tough real estate market.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Rhino|1311788934|2978120 said:
Interesting. I wasn't aware of this Neil. Thanks for filling us in.

chicam|1311605504|2976331 said:
I hear GOG does not give pricescope discount, rather they said everyone gets the pricescope discount, therefore IMO, no one gets it. Is this true or did they just spin me?
This is no spin. We have many clients from around the globe and have been a bricks and mortar store for over 30 years. I'm not going to give one group of people a better price over another. That is partiality. I look at what my competitors are doing for the $$$ and for an apples for apples comparison match the PS discount price and give that to all my clients.

Do you think it would be fair if you sent your friend to me and I charged him more money because he didn't say a particular magic word? And if I did that for PS alone, how do you know that if you didn't say another different secret word that you'd get more of a discount but I wouldn't tell it to you unless you came to me via that venue?

To me its a head game and I don't play like that. I'm a straight shooter from the word go. Like one of my favorite broadcaster's says ... Welcome to the no spin zone. The spin stops here. :sun:

Kind regards,
I applaude your openess. I find this just isn't the case in a lot of businesses and having one price structure is a big part of open business policy in somethinig so hard to place a value on such as jewelry. The diamond itself however is easier to compare, being an almost commodity.

However I bet there are SOME magic words that get diamonds out of you cheaper... "Dad, you aren't going to make me pay the same as joe public for my graduation diamond are you?" might work.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
ARRRRRGHHHH. It just dawned on me that sometime down the line I can't get Eightstar to cut my caribbean blue-green round.

Hmm, David So better be getting good reviews and sales. Let me go promote him some more on a few other threads. There lies one hope.
 
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