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EGL USA vs. GIA vs. AGS

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by diamonds101, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. diamonds101
    Rough_Rock

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    by diamonds101 » Dec 14, 2010
    I have done searches on this site and others and found older posts that say GIA is the only way to go and not to trust EGL USA or other EGL graders. Is this true anymore or has EGL USA improved?

    I have been quoted, by a jeweler I know, ~$20,500 for a round 2.18 G VS2, excellent cut with hearts and arrows, no fluorescence, excellent symmetry, excellent polish, but certified by EGL USA. Is this too good to be true? I know the jeweler well so I am not expecting to be screwed, but from what i have found on this site and others is that EGL USA is softer than GIA and to expect 1 grade lower in each category if the stone were to be graded by GIA? Admittedly, the jeweler said it is prob a H/G color and EGL USA went with G, while GIA would have probably gone with H to be on the stricter side. I have seen the stone and it is very clean, so the VS2 might be legit...any thougths?

    Thanks

    Quick Reply
     
  2. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Dec 14, 2010
    if you have seen the stone and you like it, the paper it comes with doesn't matter - you are buying the rock, not the lab report.

    that said - GIA & AGS graded G VS2s of the same size are selling for over 7k+ more, so you can be safely assured that there is something fishy - the market naturally prices goods pretty fairly. If you know that you are getting what GIA would grade as say H SI (where this stone seems to be priced), and you are okay with that knowledge and happy with that pricepoint and you like the stone in question, then you have little to lose - you can always send the stone to AGS after purchase if you want that information.

    just be sure to buy with a good return policy (in writing).
     
  3. Rockdiamond
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Rockdiamond » Dec 14, 2010
    yssie raised some great points.
    What bothers me is the lack of good info in many cases where diamonds are offered with EGL reports.

    Anyone in the diamond business knows that GIA or AGSL is the only reliable grade.
    If EGL USA is one grade off in a specific case, that does not suggest they are all of a sudden going to change an established pattern.
    Although EGL USA is the best of the EGL's in my experience, I'd still suggest looking at only GIA graded stones in this price range for a two carat.
    If you ever want to sell the diamond, the lack of GIA or AGSL report is a big detriment.
    Besides the color and clairty, in a round diamond the cut grade also has a bearing on value- agaon, yhou need to have a GIA or AGSL report to have the cut grade.
     
  4. Stone-cold11
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Stone-cold11 » Dec 14, 2010
    RD,

    EGL USA does have cut grade.

    http://www.eglusa.com/diamondfullpage.html#a

    Just not sure what the different grades and their respective criteria are.
     
  5. Rockdiamond
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Rockdiamond » Dec 14, 2010
    Good point SC- however EGL cut grade is in the same irrelevant category as the color and clarity.
    I'm sure no "cut maven" on PS will accept the EGL cut grade
     
  6. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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  7. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Dec 14, 2010
    YUP you get what you pay for most of the time when it comes to the bottom part of the distribution of diamond prices in a given spec category. Search for good *value* not the lowest price.

    The top cut of the distribution of course can be scewed to screw consumers sometimes ;) But the bottom slice of the pie is not there to do us any favours either.
     
  8. anitabee
    Shiny_Rock

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    by anitabee » Dec 15, 2010
    also be sure to click on "knowledge" at the top of this site, then "grading lab survey" where you'll find some more insight.

    there seems to be a reasonable chance that the clarity grading is legit. i own an egl usa si1 and have had it looked at by many jewellers who assume it's a vs-something. i can barely see any inclusions at even a 40x magnification. no joke.

    from what i've gleaned, egl usa may be softer on color but NOT on clarity.
     
  9. Envyme
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Envyme » Dec 15, 2010
    I just brought this up in the other thread about "seeing inclusions in a VS2" topic. Yep, I personally think EGL is a bit softer and really expect to see 1 - 2 grades lower in clairty & color compared to a GIA graded stone. I agree with the other member who said that you might as well go with the GIA. I think it is all around worth it. I have seen great EGL USA stones BUT I will have to pay more to have the VS1 grade which = VS2 or SI1 to GIA. I found I am getting a lot more for my money shopping on WF or other comparable sites here then going to the down town jewelery mart. I really like #1 being images sites like WF provide & #2 being CS/RTN policy. All in all it makes me feel better going that way. That said, I haven't decided which route I'll go because I have seen some very nice EGL USA stones but they need to be a VS1 for my preference. At the same time, if you love the stone and you don't plan to re-sell it...then go with what you love not what paper says!
     
  10. ac75
    Rough_Rock

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    by ac75 » Dec 15, 2010
    I've researched this quite a bit and I've also understood that EGL is pretty close on clarity to GIA, but definitely looser on color. So you may really have an H, but probably is a VS2. If you and your jeweler can inspect it, you have nothing to lose really.

    I think there is a better chance of getting a better deal/value w/an EGL stone. I also agree if you ever sell it, it will be easier to sell a GIA, and get more of your money back. 'Course you are also spending more for it, so it evens out. As long as you don't ever have to sell it, you will probably get a better value w/the EGL. *IMO*
     
  11. Anon-E-Mouse
    Rough_Rock
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    by Anon-E-Mouse » Dec 15, 2010
    In my recent furious searching I've found this to be very true. You can chase numbers all you like but it's all about the rock -- they're all individuals.

    IMO, the various EGL labs are all over the place. I saw a so-called G VS1 graded by EGL-Israel that had a black spot in the crown I could see the moment the sales guy put it in the tray. Elsewhere I saw an I SI1 from EGL-USA that was eye-clean, bright and magnificent. One of the more uppity shops in my area will not carry any EGL stones except those from EGL-Europe and specifically avoids EGL-USA.
     
  12. diamonds101
    Rough_Rock

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    by diamonds101 » Dec 17, 2010
    Is EGL USA or International known to be off on fluorescence, cut, polish, etc. or is it more just color and clarity? The depth is 62 and table is 57, excellent cut with H&A, excellent polish and no fluorescence.

    I posted a few pictures below. The one on the left is the EGL and on the right is a GIA H VS2 in the first picture. What do you think?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. diamonds101
    Rough_Rock

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    by diamonds101 » Dec 17, 2010
    Anyone? Are those pictures helpful or not?

    Thanks!
     
  14. Anon-E-Mouse
    Rough_Rock
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  15. ac75
    Rough_Rock

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    by ac75 » Dec 17, 2010
    Excellent article. The more I've learned about diamonds the more that is how I feel. Although there is no better option than seeing them yourself.
     
  16. Anon-E-Mouse
    Rough_Rock
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    by Anon-E-Mouse » Dec 17, 2010
    Bingo. Or using a professional vendor that you trust.
     
  17. diamonds101
    Rough_Rock

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    by diamonds101 » Dec 17, 2010
    Is EGL normally off on cut, polish and fluorescence or is that hard to mess up?

    Thanks
     
  18. Anon-E-Mouse
    Rough_Rock
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    by Anon-E-Mouse » Dec 17, 2010
    I thought you read the article I showed you. All labs have their own standard. If you're following your own standard, how can you be "off"?

    Your question is better framed thus: "Whose standard is better"?

    And I bet you'll get all kinds of responses. :)
     
  19. Elle10
    Rough_Rock

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    by Elle10 » Dec 20, 2010
    I definitely think it's a good thing that you know and trust your jeweler. Since it seems like you have a good relationship with them, why not just ask for an additional diamond grading report from GIA? Might seem silly since you already have one, but they are the most respected in the industry, the most reliable, and the most impartial. Hope this helps!
     
  20. tweep0
    Rough_Rock

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    by tweep0 » Dec 20, 2010
    I bought an EGL USA diamond... had it independently appraised at one color and clarity grade lower. It was expected because the vendor told me exactly that if GIA were to grade the stone.

    So i would expect the stone to be off by one clarity and color grade. Ask the vendor how he/she thinks GIA/AGS would grade the diamond. Also make sure you get it independently appraised before buying or after if you have a return policy.
     

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