EGL Color grading help please

[scorcher31]

I would appreciate any opinions that can be offered with regards to my situation. I''m hoping to be engaged this year and found a jeweler that is essentially a friend of a friend (not really expecting any special treatment but I figured I''d give it a shot). The jeweler had a stone from EGL-Israel that was originally 1.2 ct, ideal cut, H color, VS 2 Clarity. He gave me a price for the stone of about $5,100. He then had the stone regraded by EGL-USA and it was graded ideal cut, H color, VVS 2 Clarity (I found it odd that it actually went up 2 grades). He is not changing the price.

I know EGL has a tendency to grade loose, I looked at the stone and I was happy with the clarity (I''m familiar with microscopes and the like) and am fairly sure the stone is a VS2 min. My soon to be fiancé did like the stone, and to be honest I liked the price. (it beat looking at similar stones in big chains AGS certified for 3-4k more). Is this a fair price on a stone, even if it maybe be a color and clarity grade lower if done by GIA or AGS?

I can always check the HCA for cut and take a good look for clarity with a microscope, but is there anyway someone new to market, can assess color? Are there any index cards I can buy or any tips you can offer. I''m just partly afraid this stone is going to end up being = to a J or K AGS or GIA. Considering it will be mounted in yellow gold will a difference between H and K even be noticeable? To the jewelers credit he''s not trying to upsell me. He knows I can pay more for higher grade diamonds that he has in stock, but feel like their inclusions are in bad locations, and that the differences in color won’t be worth the price. I assume if he was honestly trying to cheat me he''d rather me buy and 9k diamond than a a 5k one as there is more room to move? Thank you so much for your help all. I really appreciate it.

 

[jlx]

you could ask the jeweler to send it to GIA. if it comes back as H - vs2, you pay for the cert. if it doesn''t come back how it should, the jeweler should pay.

i just don''t get how israel would grade it vs2, while USA would grade it vvs2.

 

[Dreamer_D]

His profit could be higher on this diamond than a more expensive stone in stock, so can''t judge his honesty based on that. Also, many bad stories on PS with "friend of friend" jewelers.

Do you have the angles from the cert? Cut quality is the most important factor to consider so it would be good to know that to help assess this stone.

That price is more in line with a 1ct J color by GIA or AGS. The trouble with EGL is you cannot really get a good sense of value on the market because it is difficult to assess "true" color, which is why I do not like EGL. But you can take it to a reputable independent appraiser near you for an assessment of color and clarity. It will help you out. Make sure the return policy is in place and allows you ample time to get the diamond checked out.

One thing to know: There are no true deals in diamonds. So at that price point I would expect that the color grade is off substantially, or it is poorly cut, or both.

 

[yssie]

It's a decent b&m price for an I/J VS2/SI1, so if it's well cut I'd certainly consider it since your fiancee liked it

The only way to know for sure how AGS/GIA would grade it is to send it to AGS or GIA.

 

[scorcher31]

Thanks for all of your help so far guys. I know not to go on the friend of a friend thing.

I don''t know enough about angles, and I''ve only seen the stone once and he sent it out to be regraded by egl-usa as he just got it in. Next time I go in I will write down the angles, depth, etc and run it through the hca calculator to look at cut though. On the egl cert all I remember was ideal cut, ex polish ex symmetry, but I will def write down the measurements and check them out before I buy.

It''s faint fluro which I''m also fine with.

I''ve always hear EGL is usually 1-2 lower on color max and usually 1 lower on clarity. Even if the stone was a VS2 J it still seems to be a good price. The cert also did say ideal cut, but I know to run the specs. How much can an EGL-USA cert really be off on color and clarity?

Is it ever possible to have an independent appraiser look at the stone in the store before I buy it? Would it be an insult to the jeweler if I had my fiancé’s great -uncle who is a retired jeweler come with us? Is there any color index cards or any tips for a novice to even attempt to assess color?

Thanks again for everything

 

[scorcher31]

Oh and is it true that while mounted in yellow gold the difference to the average person between a say a g and a J would be negligeable? I apologize for bothering you so much after just registering, but all of your help I''m getting really means a lot.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/24/2010 8:38:03 PM
Author: scorcher31

Thanks for all of your help so far guys. I know not to go on the friend of a friend thing.

I don''t know enough about angles, and I''ve only seen the stone once and he sent it out to be regraded by egl-usa as he just got it in. Next time I go in I will write down the angles, depth, etc and run it through the hca calculator to look at cut though. On the egl cert all I remember was ideal cut, ex polish ex symmetry, but I will def write down the measurements and check them out before I buy.

It''s faint fluro which I''m also fine with.

I''ve always hear EGL is usually 1-2 lower on color max and usually 1 lower on clarity. Even if the stone was a VS2 J it still seems to be a good price. The cert also did say ideal cut, but I know to run the specs. How much can an EGL-USA cert really be off on color and clarity?

1. Is it ever possible to have an independent appraiser look at the stone in the store before I buy it? 2. Would it be an insult to the jeweler if I had my fiancé’s great -uncle who is a retired jeweler come with us? 3. Is there any color index cards or any tips for a novice to even attempt to assess color?

Thanks again for everything

Of course! This is a big purchase. Think of it like having an independet mechanic give a car a once over before buying

2. Not an insult, and if the jeweler acts like it is then he is not a good jewler. 3. Nope, sorry.

EGL can be off by 2 grades, there is no way to tell with any given diamond. To be sure the price is right assume the worst and go 2 grades down in both clarity and color.

We need the crown and pavilion angles, and the table and depth percentages.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/24/2010 8:45:11 PM
Author: scorcher31
Oh and is it true that while mounted in yellow gold the difference to the average person between a say a g and a J would be negligeable? I apologize for bothering you so much after just registering, but all of your help I'm getting really means a lot.

I don't think gold color matters, other feel differentlly.

Don't apologise, this is what PS is for!

 

[scorcher31]

I''ll make sure when I go back home to the jeweler on good friday I write down the angles, depth, etc. I''ll run them by you guys as well and rebump this topic then.