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Effect of rough or origin on Brilliance

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Beith

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I''ve always been wondering if the origin of the rough or the variances of the rough will have an effect on the brilliance of the resulting cut stone. I''ve heard some dealers said a particular stone is more brilliant since it came from South Africa or ........ I have never been able to confirm or dispute that statement.

People have been paying premimum for rubies from Burma and Sapphires from Ceylon. Besides better color, they seem to exhibit more brilliance. I am wondering if the same applies to diamonds. Theoretically, can two diamonds with the same clarity, color and cut display different degrees of brilliance? Does the internal characteristics of a rough or its origin play a role on the potential quality of the final cut product?
 

Beith

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Since there is no response, I guess this must have been a dumb question and the answer must be no effect on brilliance due to rough origin.

 

dimonbob

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Some in the diamond business believe that some Russian mined diamonds are somehow more clear or crystal than diamonds from other locations. You can't use the term clarity or brilliant because that has another meaning.
Unlike Burma rubies or Columbian emeralds, Russian diamonds do not cost more because of location of the mines.
 

niceice

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On 3/19/2003 10:27:49 PM dimonbob wrote:

Some in the diamond business believe that some Russian mined diamonds are somehow more clear or crystal than diamonds from other locations.

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There really isn't an accurate way at this moment in time to determine the actual source of the diamond you are looking at... Maybe in a few years after the Kimberly Act of 2003 has had time to take an effect on the industry, but for now everything is a guess as to the actual source of the rough with exception of the distribution pipeline it came down... i.e. DTC, Russian Syndicate, etc. but the funny "realization" for us came a number of years ago when we were out to dinner with a potential supplier who claimed to sell "Russian cut diamonds"... Well after he'd slammed down more than his fair of drinks he started babbling about the import / export problems he was having moving the diamonds through Russian and that peaked our interest... Import problems? If the diamonds were "russian cut" why would he be having import problems? Well, after a few more drinks he told us that he actually cut the diamonds in Tel Aviv, Israel and then exported them to Russia where he exported them to the United States... Which provided him with the Russian export declaration that backed up his "Russian Cut" claim... We run the DTC pipes (we buy direct from DTC site holders and those who buy from them...) we can track the diamonds we purchase back to the DTC in terms of distribution but there is no way we could tell you what mine they came out of...

 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 20, 2002
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Since there is no response, I guess this must have been a dumb question and the answer must be no effect on brilliance due to rough origin.
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It's not a dumb question at all--it's that the jury is still out on this. Currently, the state of the art in geology is just not capable of telling where a diamond came from by examining it. So it's hard to even address the issue.

Diamonds form deep in the mantle (90-120 miles down), then pop up through the crust, so their geologic features don't match the area where they're mined. The majority of diamonds formed around a billion years ago, and since the crust has moved around significantly in that period, it's very hard to really sort out what effects location has on diamond properties. There is little agreement in the geologic community on these issues, so you can imagine how little understanding there is going to be at the wholesale and retail levels.
 

Hest88

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Jan 22, 2003
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On 3/19/2003 3:16:19 PM Beith wrote:

Theoretically, can two diamonds with the same clarity, color and cut display different degrees of brilliance? Does the internal characteristics of a rough or its origin play a role on the potential quality of the final cut product?
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Well, it's not a dumb question, but I was a bit stymied on how to answer it from your last paragraph. A diamond has the same chemical composition wherever it is found. With rubies, sapphires, etc., they've found better stones in those areas, so the question would be not whether or not a diamond of the exact same clarity, etc. is more brilliant, but whether or not you get a greater percentage of better clarity, etc. stones from a certain area or not. Did that make sense? And, as the guys said, the jury's still out on that.
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 31, 1999
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598
_______________________________
Some in the diamond business believe that some Russian mined diamonds are somehow more clear or crystal than diamonds from other locations.
_______________________________

I have heard several diamond dealers describe this very same thing about the Canadian produced diamonds. There certainly isn't any scientific data verifying any of this, but the eyes can be very accurate. We do know that most Canadian diamonds mined are in the upper color grades, it is rare to see a K color or lower.
 

mike04456

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Nov 20, 2002
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We do know that most Canadian diamonds mined are in the upper color grades, it is rare to see a K color or lower.
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This is probably because they are holding back the lower-color material. I have seen plenty of low-color rough from Canada, including some fancy yellows. It doesn't seem to be getting cut, however.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Law Gem you are on the money.

The primary sources of diamonds are between 500km and 150km below the earths surface. They must be transported to the surface in a snap frozen manner within hours via Volcanoes.

As the continents have drifted over the cracks in the surface that allow the volcanic activity, the same source of diamonds has supplied different continents with the same basic diamond material.
e.g. Central and West African diamonds are thought to have come from similar primary sources to those in South America.
It is likely that Indian Gloconda and Austrailan Argyle diamonds shared a primary source.
I could guess that Canadian and Russian diamonds may have a sahred source.

What changes locally is the alteration etc during transport to the earths surface.
Argyle diamonds for instance are chemically very pure, like Indian diamonds. But they have been stored in a holding bay half way up and altered in various ways.

There are no more diamonds being formed deep down.
Mt St Helens was a potential eruption of the type that could have bought diamonds to the surface.
 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 1, 2002
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570
Just a small error,
Botswana has for many years been the worlds largest producers of Gem Quality diamonds from the Orapa and Jwaneng mines

Johan
 

wanderlost

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Nov 3, 2003
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It's the caffeine, the nicotine, the milligrams of tar.
It's my habitat, it needs to be cleaned. It's my car.
It's the fast talk they use to abuse and feed my brain.
It's the cat box it needs to be changed. It's the pain
It's women. It's the fight for power. It's government.
It's the way you're giving knowledge slow with thought control and subtle hints.....
-Atmosphere

...sorry, I digress - Furthermore's comment got me going on this great song called "Scapegoat". I found the 'fast talk' & 'giving knowledge' lines interestingly relevent with respect to all the lines that DeBeers and B&M stores are constantly supplying.....
 
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