Duped!

[Manks]

Hi All,

My name is Manks and I hail from Nottingham UK.

I have recently become engaged to my girlfriend and part of that process was buying her a diamond engagement ring.

I took the precaution of buying it from a diamond dealer, who only sells certificated stones.

The stone I bought was a 1.11 E-Si Brilliant. At the time of purchase, I knew so little that I bought on price, size and "sparkle".

My girlfriend was DELIGHTED with the ring (I had the stone set in a "Tiffany" solitaire setting) and the stone certainly does sparkle. The process of purchasing the ring, and seeing a quality diamond daily, has really got me fascinated by diamonds. I am hooked.

I am unsure whether its the excitement of dicovering something new, or an illness, or a fascination that will remain with me forever, but I have recently found myself transfixed by diamonds and can spend ages staring at them! I have also started doing a lot of research.

I started this thread with the title "duped". Why? Not because I feel I was ripped off with the stone I bought. I was very lucky, the stone is quite good I think:

1.11cwt E-Si Brilliant
6.65 - 6.79 - 3.99
Proportions - Very Good
Girdle - medium 3.5% faceted
Culet - pointed
Table width - 63%
cr height - 13%
pav depth - 43%
finish grade good.

Knowing what I now know, I might have tried to find a stone with a smaller table. This stone is quite brilliant, but fire is average and scintillation appears greater from the facets of the crown than the table. The occasional stone I have seen since has had scintillation that appears to eminate from deep in the stone (forgive me if I am getting my terminology mixed up here - I am new to this!). All of that said, the stone is still GLORIOUS and better than 99% of stones I have seen before or since. It was also fairly priced at £4750 (about $8k?) I believe.

Back to "duped" though - 99% of the population buy the 99% of so-so stones - and pay a lot for them.

A chat with an average jeweller will throw up the most appalling array of inaccuracies, stories and down right lies. All inaccuracies are of course tailored to making their own stock seem better. The thing is, I know that the MAJORITY of jewellery buyers will get suckered. They just don''t have the time, budget or inclination to research and buy quality stones.

In summary, unless I am very much mistaken, I bought a pretty good stone by choosing a reputable dealer and trusting him. Now that I have done a level of research that most people would not bother with, I understand enough about diamonds that I could probably pick out a reasonable one on my own. Most people do not do much research and spend a lot of money on something about which they know nothing and I have met many jewellers who will quite happily charge them far too much for very poor stones.

Manks

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Hi Manks,

You have become an educated consumer due to websites such as Pricescope! I think this is terrific. Yes, the more educated consumer will be buying better stones and the ones that don't bother will be paying far too much for their acquisitions.

Now that you have done a little research, the table could have been smaller if you had been aware, and the price seems a tad high too. But, you have made the presentation and she is tickled I am sure. Which documentation do you have?

This fascination with diamonds can be catchy! Cindy

 

[Manks]

Its an HRD certificate.

Re price - If that price seems high, I suspect that you can buy stones a little cheaper in the US, in as much that rings equivalent to the one I bought (BTW that price included a platinum solitaire setting) retail at between £5-6k ($8-10k?) over here.

You are right, in hindsight I would have looked out for the table size. However of the stones available to me at the time, I would probably still make the same decision now. Interestingly, after reducing the options, I made a choice between the 1.11 stone that I bought and a 1.2cwt E-VS1. The larger stone "sparkled" less and was £2k more, so I chose the smaller stone. That certainly had a smaller table, but maybe what I was seeing was brilliance, which would be enhanced by the larger table of the smaller stone (is that right?)

The effect that the stone has is high all-round "sparkliness" but much of the sparkling eminates from the crown facets, rather than the table. Am I making any sense?

Manks

 

[strmrdr]

Maybe im not seeing it but you say you were duped then you say you weren’t then you say you were then you say you went then you say you got a good deal and liked the looks of it.
So im a little confused.
Also I believe there is a 15% vat if you bring one in from the US so that has to be taken into account.
There are always better stones out there and maybe better deals you could have done a six month search then bought the absolute best diamond for your budget and the next day a slightly better diamond might appear someplace for the same price.
Availability and pricing of diamonds has a way of doing that.
So I guess what im saying is that it sounds like you are having a little buyer’s remorse that is very common.
Take your gal out to dinner and watch her enjoy the ring you picked out for her and relax
:}

 

[Manks]

No, no, maybe I didn't make myself clear. What I was saying was that I did OK, but I was lucky because I knew nothing.

Now I know more, I realise what I should have been looking for. As luck would have it, I got a pretty good stone. A great number of people will not be so lucky because there are a lot of jewellers out there selling overpriced but average stones - and most buyers wouldn't know the difference.

Its human nature to ask "could I have bought better", but even now I know more about diamonds, I am still quite happy with my purchase.

Cheers!

 

[Manks]

By the way strmdr, your point about VAT is a good one - though importing, one could claim back and US sales tax. I'd guess that diamonds might be cheaper in the US due to the sheer number of stones and market forces. However importing them is probably uneconomic.

Also my £/$ translation was for guidance only, the stone may have cost less in $ than I stated, depending upon the prevailing exchange rate, i.e the strength of the dollar against the £.

Best

Manks

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Live mid-market rates as of 2003.12.01 11:18:21 GMT.

5,000.00 GBP=8,623.60 USD

1 GBP = 1.72472 USD 1 USD = 0.579804 GBP

You gave a range of what you paid in GBP so I used the low side. Cindy

 

[Manks]

Cindy

So for comparison, how much would that stone, plus mount, with that grading etc etc cost in your part of the world?

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Hi Manks,

I just ran a search from the Pricescope homepage and found approximately 80+ stones with AGS or GIA 'pedigree'. Lots of info there. Try it and see what comes up. Too much info to cut and paste properly. Cindy

 

[Manks]

Cindy

I have had a little play around with the search engine, and it comes up that a similar stone in a ring comes out at just under £6k, at 0% tax.

I cannot remember how your sales tax system works, but I'd guess that even with tax you'd still be paying less.
Take a look here for an IDEA of what we'd pay here, but even these prices are lower than highstreet prices:

http://www.cooldiamonds.com/cd_firstpage/cd_800new/cd_800new.html?cd0_NE

 

[knowverylittle]

UK VAT is 17.5%. In an US internet sale, the sales tax can be avoided.

The dollar is VERY weak today. One British Pound is 'normally' worth 1.4->1.5 USD. I transferred money over last March (to buy a house) at 1.6 and thought it would not have gone any higher. Waiting would have bought several big diamonds - ooops, one cannot win them all!

So paying GBP 4750 is more like USD 5800, not the $8K quoted. Not so bad a deal.

Importing to the UK from the US and not paying tax is highly illegal. Customs and Excise are not to be messed with. A few pairs of Levis is one thing, but remember Posh and Becks engagement ring a few years back - big trouble.

 

[Manks]

Out of interest AM, what sales tax would you have to pay on a jewellery item purchased Stateside

 

[knowverylittle]

Depends on the State and County. 5-7% are normal in my experience.

If you have it shipped from one state to another then you pay no sales tax

In some States you are required to declare such items on your tax return and pay the local sales tax. From what I hear no one bothers to do this.

If you wanted to save money you could have the diamond shipped to a friend in the USA. Then visit them on a Holiday and have your fiancé/wife wear it on the way back. Then you would avoid the tax altogether. Illegal but they will never know - unless you are famous like Posh and Becks and the ring gets in the Newspapers! Order via FedEx and Customs will know what is in the box and whack you for 17.5% before releasing the item.


The UK is great place but taxes in the US are much lower. Income tax here is tiny too! Don't get me started on the price of petrol or houses. You can now see how they afford expensive rings! The flip-side? Get ill here without medical insurance or lose your job and it is game over, no one will help you. It is a real 'us and them' society.

 

[Manks]

Hmmm, and you have better weather too... Think I could sneak in?

 

[knowverylittle]

LOL! There are about six trillion illegals here already so one more would not hurt!

The grass is often greener. I have lived in the South on and off since '95. Most of my English co-workers returned to Europe, very few stayed to have kids here.

Nottingham is cool city, wish I were back in London sometimes. Ahh.. nostaliga