drop a colour and clarity to get a H & A diamond ??

[ukdiamondvirgin]

if they cost the same for example 2 carat / $20,000 would you rather have ;
a Hearts + Arrow (H & A / ACA / Brian Gavin) H SI1
or
find the best ideal cut you can allowing you to afford a G VS2

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/27/2009 2:28:31 PM
Author:ukdiamondvirgin
if they cost the same for example 2 carat / $20,000 would you rather have ;
a Hearts + Arrow (H & A / ACA / Brian Gavin) H SI1
or
find the best ideal cut you can allowing you to afford a G VS2

I would rather go for the H SI1 top cut h&a if verified eyeclean, but it is an individual choice, you might get varied answers.

 

[Dreamer_D]

H vs G is negligible to many, and as long as it is eye clean then the clarity difference is also negligible. So to me the question is "Should I get an H&A"? My answr is yes

 

[kenny]

Correct me if I'm wrong but let me rephrase your question to see if I really understand it.

Given that both diamonds were equally superior cut and from an equally superior source, and the same price, would you rather have a smaller G VS2 or a larger H SI1?

Is that the question?
(I'm getting distracted by the other info you put into your post, and not sure if you are also asking about our preferences on the source.)

If so, I'd pick the smaller one with higher color and clarity.

 

[elle_chris]

If the light performance on G, VS2 is excellent, that''s the one I''d choose. It''s one color and one clarity grade higher and that''s important to me. For you, maybe an H&A trumps color and clarity.

 

[FB.]

I''d take the ideal-cut G VS2 - as long as it was certificated to have excellent symmetry by GIA or AGS.

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

the reason I ask the question is that I could go for the following;

G VS2 2.22 CARAT
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268976.asp
excellent cut
excellent symmetry

Factor Grade Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Excellent
Scintillation - Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight - Very Good
Total Visual Performance - 1.5 - Excellent within TIC range

ASET/IS can be seen on this link
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-2-22-carat-g-vs2.130312/

OR

a 2.22 Whiteflash H SI1 eyeclean H & A / ACA direct from Brian Gavin himself.

I have no link but it is very very similar to this
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2169554.htm#

Factor Grade Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Excellent
Scintillation - Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight - Very Good
Total Visual Performance - 1.1 - Excellent within TIC range

ASET/IS can be seen on the whiteflash link

So based on those would those who would go for VS2 G still go for my VS2 G over the H SI1 H+A ????

 

[FB.]

Number 2 is a classic ideal cut, with well-balanced features. But I would make an ultra-cautious query regarding the extent/severity of the "clarity-grade-determining-clouds" - especially since some are not shown.

Number 1 is slightly off the normal path but still a good stone; the table is slightly larger, the lower halves are longer, the crown is slightly flatter, the pavilion is slightly deeper, the star facets are slightly larger.
Number 1 is slightly more geared towards being brighter than your typical ideal cut, but less fiery and less prominent contrast of the arrows (which will appear narrower).

Most people would probably choose the proportions of number 2. But my OH would prefer number 1 because it suits their taste. Note that number 1 "faces-up" slighty larger.

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

thanks FB
god this isnt easy !!

the whiteflash was actually an example. the H+A i am talking about buying is direct from Brian Gavin - this is the cert
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/1040381680011-PLDQR.PDF

would this make any difference to your decision FB ?
Also do you know any better G VS2 2.2 approx / $21000 approx doing the rounds than the one I highlighted ??

 

[FB.]

On balance, not much to choose between the two from my viewpoint, but most people would probably choose the AGS0 from Brian because it's closer to Tolkowsky's ideal cut and has the more-prestigious AGS0 H&A cut grade.

The SI1's cluster of crystals might "merge" and appear as one larger crystal to the naked eye. Many crystals will appear black from at least one viewing angle. Check that it is eye clean to your requirements of distance and time of searching.
If I know where to look, I can often see clustered VS2 black crystal inclusions as far away as 6-8" and clustered SI1 crystals at twice that distance. But SI1 is usually eye clean to casual observers, although about half are not 100% eye clean to it's owner who knows where to look or who spends many minutes analysing the stone.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

one thing for you to consider is the James Allen stone has ''Medium Blue Fluorescence'' while the BG stone is graded as ''negligible''

The JA and BG stones are about the same size - so no real visual difference in the size you see in a ring, both have inclusions plotted under the table - so in some ways it comes down several things.

1 - talk to each vendor about the stones your looking at, and see about their opinion on how eye clean they are.

2 - what is their return policy like, and are you comfortable with their terms - because of their holiday period would they amend their returns policy if the end of the period ends during the holiday season period.

3 - a couple of physical differences between the stones - that is the JA has a larger table than the BG stone, and the JA has longer lower girdle facets, making the ''arrows'' appear very thin, while the BG stone has shorter lower girdle facets, which give a thicker ''shaft'' to the arrows patter (if you haven''t asked for the images from BG then the WF stone you linked too wont be too dissimilar with it''s 77% LGF to the BG''s 76 LGF)

That said, neither of these things: the table size or LGF differences are ''bad'' but they do give the diamonds a different look. a different personality in the way they return and refract the light, you may like one look better than the other.
In a way i''d maybe suggest you had them both sent to an appraiser in the US who could video the stones side by side (like Rhino does at Good Old Gold) and you can make your decision before you go on with your purchase and import the diamond into the UK.

4 - is it worth paying $300 to get a stone, with no discernible difference in size, colour and clarity (assuming both eye clean) theres the medium blue Flour to consider, tho - its probably not an issue, with a slightly lesser cut (and it is slight)

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/27/2009 2:28:31 PM
Author: ukdiamondvirgin

if they cost the same for example 2 carat / $20,000 would you rather have ;
a Hearts + Arrow (H & A / ACA / Brian Gavin) H SI1
or
find the best ideal cut you can allowing you to afford a G VS2

When I first saw this thread I saw the question above first and I planned to answer it by saying, "Neither. I'd go smaller". Thank goodness for you Rocky Talky regulars! Kenny brilliantly rephrased the question so that it made sense in the way that I think ukdiamondvirgin originally wanted it to. Lord Summerisle gave some great additional information based on facts that you got from ukdv, and the thread really started to go places. You guys are great!

AGBF

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

Brian GAvin IS

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

BG loupe

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

BG ASET

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

versus

ASET/IS on the G VS2 can be seen on this link
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-2-22-carat-g-vs2.130312/

 

[partgypsy]

unless you have your heart sold on a hearts and arrows, wouldn''t necessarily go lower (in size, clarity, color) if you could get the same in an ideal cut.

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1246267.asp

what do you all think of this VS2 G 2.1 carat - it seems a better cut than the previous G/VS2 James Allen example I was using previously to compare to H+A ?????????????

Factor Grade Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent
within TIC range

My only concern is there some inclusions on the loupe ( if the diamond was a clock where the small hand would be at 9pm)

thanks

 

[swingirl]

An H from Brian Gavin would be my choice. His stones are amazing. Email them for the photos.

 

[ukdiamondvirgin]

yeah its also a SI1 instead of VS2 tho as well

 

[Laila619]

H Si1, no doubt. H is still very white. I don''t care about clarity personally, as long as it''s eye clean.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

UK you have so many threads over the board it is hard to help you.
It is unlikely anyone could say which is better than the other because they are all fab.
Dont try to judge inclusions from the huge images - and dont be frightened by fluoro - the polls of pro-consumers on this board indicate those in the ''know'' prefer fluoro diamonds.

stop agonizing!

 

[Karl_K]

I would get IS images for the JA diamonds before doing anything.

 

[elle_chris]

Can''t comment on the second G as there''s no idealscope or ASET.
Is this stone for you or your girlfriend? I ask because in the real world, most people don''t know (or care) about H&A''s. As long as the G is a great perfomer, and based on the idealscope image it should be, people value higher color and clarity over perfect hearts and arrows.

But if you''re really torn, is there any way you can have them both sent to an appraiser and get an unbiased opinion?