"DREAM TEAM" - Q1: PRINCESS COLOR/CLARITY

[Appreciative-of-expertise]

Orig. Post: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/forming-90-day-dream-team-wanna-join.9966/ $34k budget

Q1: After doing some research, I''m leaning towards focusing on a E-F stone in a vs1-vs2 range of clarity. Recommendations from others have suggested to go no lower then F in color. Do others concur? Would I see any noticable difference in color from a "D" quality stone? Hoes does flourescense affect color and, what fl grading should i target when looking for an awesome looking stone? Lastly, am i safe in the vs1-2 range or, is there benefit to the eye in looking at the VVS range? What tools are at my disposal to assess color & clarity?
Thanks,
Frank

(Next topic post will focus on cut and dimensions)

 

[Rank Amateur]

My answers are not ISO9000 approved, but here goes.

You'd need to look real real hard to see the difference between D E F. Mounted, that easily goes down to G or H.

Those in the know say that in larger stones the color is a bit more prominent, so maybe that gets factored in as well.

To me, color is the easiest thing to have a clear cut preference on. Find a vendor who has enough stones that you can compare colors side by side.

 

[dimonbob]

Assuming you have a size in mind within your price limit, start eliminating everything with an extremely thin or thick girdles. If you want it square, take out all of those that are not square enough. Remove all under VS2. There is nothing wrong with a VS princess cut. I would only move up to the VVS range if I couldn't find what I want in the VS range. Try to find one in the Class 1A cut with an ex/ex or vg/vg symmetry/polish. You probably will not find it but sometimes we get lucky. If you can't find what you want in a Class 1A move down to Class 1B. If you find a VS with everything, you can move up in color and/or size. If you find it in VVS you might have to go down in color and/or size. Keep one thing in mind. If you find what you want, you had better jump on it or it will be on someone elses finger while you "think about it". There are not many "perfect" princess cuts around!

 

[valeria101]

Yes (to the above) if 'large' means 3ct and above. As for clarity: VS should not be visibly different from IF without some magnification and experience looing for inclusions. Hypothetically, in some rather rare (and discounted ) cases you get one dark, large inclusion right in the middle of the table and the stone is a VS2 by name, but I have only seen such a disaster in SI1. VS2 is, by definition, eye clean. This quality can be extended to SI grades, with some search left for the buyer, but since you have started with VVS in mind, I might never be able to pass the SI through

(joke here). To me, those VVS grades are theoretical pretexts to isolate IF as 'perfection' and have no visual impact. Hopefully, someone can show this to you: go to goodoldgold.com and see how small are VVS and VS iclusions on those hugely magnified images and try to extrapolate that on the actual size of the diamond. We are talking fractions of mm here! SI pictures do show off stuff, but many SI stones do not. As for color, there is a large premium for D-F but not so much visual impact. Of course, there are quite a few buyers going for perfection with a pedigree (D/IF) but this is well known by the sellers too. It is up to you to relate the grades of all kind (cut, color, clarity & COST) to the appeal of the stone. This is not a mater of taste, just of human visual capabilities.

 

[Kay]

I am not an expert, just a consumer, but here is my opinion. I agree that a VS1 or VS2 clarity grade is good enough -- only pay the premium for VVS if you find a really well cut VVS that meets all of your other criteria and you cannot find a comparable stone in VS clarity. I agree with staying in the D-F color range, possibly G (although I can tell a color difference between D & F and F & G). You will see a lot of posts from people talking about how white their H-J stones look, but they are usually talking about ideal or super-ideal round brilliants, which have more brilliance than even a well cut princess and therefore will look whiter. Body color is more readily apparent in a princess or other fancy cut than in a RB.

 

[Rhino]

I have a question for you AOE. Are you locked into a princess cut?




Rhino

 

[Mara]

Rhino's post got me thinking. Since I was surfing around his site today drooling on all the beautiful Regents and QOH's...figured I'd mention to you that there are similar shaped stones nowadays that are cut for MUCH better light return than a regular ole princess. Rhino's site has all sorts of modifed square brilliants for you to feast your eyes on..and they are much more fun than a princess. I note this because you seem to be very interested in getting the *right* thing for your girl--so you should check out all the options...you may feel as though a princess doesn't return as much light or have the symmetry you want in a great stone...so the other newer cuts may hold some interest for you.

Oops just noted you said you were going into CUT in the next post. Nevermind.

That said, why would someone tell you to not go lower than F in a princess? In my opinion, with a well cut stone you can go as low as H and still have it appear white. Yes it depends on the cut of the stone (both quality and style) but G/H are perfectly respectable grades, that is why they are called 'near colorless'. I would say if your budget allows, focus on something like E and F. But if you need to, don't be afraid to explore G or H. Go into stores and SEE stones firsthand. Compare colors, see what differences your eyes pick out. My eyes and your eyes may not see the same thing. I compared E and G round brilliants and did not see one whit of difference nor did my fiance. So we got the G!

For clarity, I think you are good with VS or SI1 esp if you are buying online. Be sure it's eye clean. I always figure..why pay for things you can't see? Like why get a VVS? Just because you can? I guess...but I wouldn't focus your search on the very high grades. A VS stone will not have any face up eye visible inclusions if it was graded correctly. Stick with VS1/2 or SI1 and you can maximize your budget and really get a great cut.

Since you mention you are saving cut for the next post I won't go into any more on that!

Lastly, fluorescence...if you are sticking in the colorless range (e.g. an E or F) then I would try to get a stone with faint or negligible fluor. Because it's really not needed. But if you are going G or H...something like a med/strong fluor may make the stone look slightly whiter though at that range who knows if its even noticeable..and if you decided to go with I or J...strong fluor would definitely help. But since you are leaning more towards colorless, I would stick with faint or neg. Something like an E color with strong fluor wouldn't be a combo I'd jump to buy.

My two cents? E/F/G color and VS/SI clarity.

Good luck!

 

[canadiangrrl]

I would stay at G or better in colour in a princess of this size and look for VS2 or even an eyeclean SI1 clarity.

Some people are definitely more sensitive to colour than others. Princess cuts will exhibit more body colour than a round.

Princess cuts aren't generally known for their outstanding light return (although there are exceptions to be found.) If you want a square shape with great light return, check out the Regent or the Queen of Hearts. Jonathan has some excellent examples at Good Old Gold.

 

[Giangi]

I'd suggest F/VS 2 AGA class 1A-B.

As others have pointed, it won't be easy, but don't give up!

Have you seen/considered the regent, the queen of hearts, the flanders' brilliant and the lucere'? They are close to a princess in shape, but have different looks with exceptional symmetry... Very pretty!