don''t make me beg!!!

[copernicus]

I have tried to learn as much as possible about my upcoming e-ring purchase. However, despite my internet knowledge I have little practcal experience in discerning well cut stones (just can''t find many at local B&Ms). I am comfortable buying a diamond unseen but would like input from people who have more "practical" experience.
These are the two round brilliant stones I am considering:

1) 1.52ct E VS2 D61%, Cr 34.3 Pav 40.8 Table 55% GIA cert
ex pol/symm, no fluoro. Light scope and BS scope look amazing. 7.45-7.48x4.56 Costs 2.5K more.

2) 1.73ct G SI1 D61.9% Cr 35.0 pav 40.7 table 55% AGS cert-triple 0. no fluoro. Firescope looks good. 7.70-7.74x4.78 Eye clean Si1

My questions are:
a) Is the size difference discernable to the average viewer?
b) I can tell the difference between E and G in the stones I have seen in person. In well cut stones is there "much" difference?
c) Both score well on the HCA. #1 scores very well on other scales provided. Do you think there would be much visual difference in the cuts--fire/brillance/scintiallation? Both vendors say they are spectacular, of course

but could there be a maximum 5-10% difference? or more?
d) Any problems getting SI1 clarity in this size? I have heard differing opinions.

Thanks for all your help...

 

[Patty]

Hi copernicus, welcome!

Has your girlfriend expressed a desire for a large diamond? Both of the ones you are considering look great. The E color and VS clarity are wonderful but I'd prefer the larger size. G is still a great color and if the vendor says it's eye clean, I'd believe him/her. Have you seen pictures of the diamonds? Can you see any inclusions in the SI stone?

To me, yes, the size difference between the two would be noticeable. I'd go with the bigger one, but that's just ME.

 

[copernicus]

Thanks for the reply Patty.
She says she like the look of a 1.5-2 ct but of course would be hapy with anything I picked out. She has small fingers (4 and 3/4) if that makes any difference.
The dealer said the second is eye clean face and pav side up. I have attached a pick that I have. The hearts and arrow symmetry isn't ans good as the first but my understanding is that does not neccesarily affect the performance.
CW

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi Copernicus!

In general, the average person cannot detect a color difference in adjacent grades,.... E/F, F/G, etc. That's comparing them side by side.

Clarity costs more than color. You've chatted with the Vendors. Did you get a good description of the type, color, and physical location of the inclusions in the SI1? AGS tends to be rather harsh in clarity grading in most cases. If the G has white type inclusions, the stone doesn't have a feather running across the plane of the facets, a huge milky cloud, or some other major problem, you shouldn't have a problem with the clarity. You might want to get magnified pics of the inclusions to be on the safe side.

To the average viewer, if both diamonds are comparably cut and the SI is eye clean,.... There will be a discernable difference in the 2 diamonds. SIZE. Physical presence. While tenths of a mm don't sound like much, .35mm will add visible size difference.

 

[derekinla]

I think if you were to hold the stones side by side, the biggest discernable visible appearance would be size. I think I would go for the 1.73 carat stone over the 1.52

 

[Patty]

Copernicus, that stone looks beautiful to me and it's enlarged several times. I'd go with the bigger one for sure!

 

[aliciamt7]

Hi! I just wanted to let you know that your stones look great and I would go for the 1.73 (the size difference is noticeable!)--I actually have a 1.52 carat SI1 stone that is completely eye clean and you would not believe how many people say what amazing clarity my stone is!! I had decided that I did not want (at least right now) anything larger than 1 1/2 carat stone because my fingers are so small too (I'm also a 4 and 3/4) but if your GF likes the look of up to 2 carats, go for the larger one! She will absolutely LOVE it!! And G is very white, so you shouldn't have any problems with color if you're choosing a white setting. Good luck!

Alicia

 

[valeria101]

I just browsed the posts... and will be back, but which stone is in the pic? If it is the SI, than that surely looks clean to me

Neither diamond is going to look tinted, all right, but I believ your saying that E and G look different side by side. As for the size difference, well, it is there, but I ma not sure it will be all that significant once the stones are not one near the other for comparison. Cut quality being equal (is it?), E-VS is a top stone, G-SI is a nice compromize and the difference in size may or may not tilt the balance depending on how focused your girl is on it. I am not sure wether the psichological step between 1.5 and 1.75 is worth many words, but if 3/4 sounds way better than 1/2, than weight makes a difference: otherwise 0.3mm is less than the tip of most pens

 

[chris-uk04]

0.21 carats bigger and a 2.5 K less for 2 color grades and a clarity grade... I'd go bigger. I think the size will be a noticiable difference but the color/clarity won't be.

While it's 0.35 mm in diameter, you also have to remember that since the diamond is round, you have to consider area which will go up expotenially. So the 1.73 which is only 3.4% bigger in diameter is really 7% bigger in area, which is what is noticiable.

 

[fire&ice]

Personally, if the SI is eye clean, I'd go with the bigger stone as well. It is nearly 1 3/4 vs 1 1/2.

IMHO, a good compromise of quality vs quanity.

 

[hoorray]

I think the larger one is probably a beautiful stone, but if you aren't sure, why don't you consider having the both shipped to an appraiser near you so that you can compare them side by side. You'll probably end up paying return shipping on the one you don't keep, and maybe some extra appraiser time, but for this size purchase, that is one way to be sure.

 

[copernicus]

Thanks for your help everyone

--I was leaning toward the larger stone also. I guess my concern boils down to when purchasing on the net you can try to cover all your bases by asking questions, crunching numbers, and getting pictures but it is no substitute for seeing it in person.

I thought since the smaller stone had great Isee2, BS scope etc..I would be more guarenteed on its performance. However the larger stone does as well on the HCA even though it is not strictly an AGA 1a cut.

Is it frowned upon to have two stones sent to an appraiser from seperate vendors? Also will the appraiser (if local) usually let you meet with them and discuss their findings with you (rather than just sending a report)? I'd like to see what they are talking about.

Finally I am looking for a platinum tapered baguette setting.
I have seen vatche, ingwer, and robbins brothers examples. The real look my GF likes in the tiffany/harry winston with the baguettes coming up toward the girdle of the center stone rather than lying flat (see picture). Is this a different setting or just depend on how high or low you set the center stone in the same seting? Anyone know who makes a good quality knockoff? The others seemed to have the baguettes lying flatter...
Thanks again everyone for all the advice!!!
CW

 

[hoorray]

I think that you should call your local appraiser (make sure he/she is truly independent and doesn't sell stones) and ask for an appointment to evaluate 2 stones. Discuss what you are trying to accomplish with them, and see if it is something they will do. (I would think that most would -- they just might charge you differently.) In many cases, the vendor will ship to an approved appraiser before you purchase it, and you can then see it with their assistance before making a final decision. I think this is the safest way to go, regardless of how many stones you look at in person. You should talk to the appraiser before hand about their services and what and how they appriach the appraisal process anyway. There seems to be fairly large variances.

I considered having a couple of stones sent when we bought my stone, and the vendors were fine with it. At least their stone would get live consideration. I would have had to pay the return shipping on the one(s) I didn't purchase. I didn't end up doing this because the timing didn't work out, but part of me still wishes I had -- even tho I love my stone -- just to help me know that we made the very best decision.

 

[fire&ice]

Most baguette side rings are lower profile. Have you seen the one in person that you posted here? My experience, if I recall correctly, was that the Verragio version was a tad higher profile. I have the Vatche version & love the lower profile.

 

[Rhino]

Hi Copernicus,




My wife would also concur with most of the ladies here as well. However I know of alot of woman (and men) who would advise the exact opposite. Your choice here is not that of the ugly vs the pretty diamond but that of one with more rarity than the other.

• Less than 1% of diamonds that come out of the earth are D or E colors.
  
• VS is more rare than SI.
  
• A true (picture perfect) Hearts & Arrows diamond vs a non.
  
• Signature LightScope results.
  
• One that scores 9.8 via Isee2.
  
• Triple VH's on the B'scope.

This is among the rarest of the rare with regards to cut and is a needle in the haystack even within H&A diamonds. The other is certainly more common as it may not even be H&A. If you are after size the choice is clear. If you are after rarity the choice is also clear. You may want to ask her what her preference would be. There are many woman who would rather have the most rare diamond her man can get in a 1.5xct than a more common 1.7xct. and be very satisfied with a 1.5xct size in the more rare stone (especially considering she's a 4.x finger size).

If I were in your shoes I'd try to get a feel for what her preference might be. Does her personality type prefer larger more common or smaller more rare?

My .02c
Rhino

 

[Daniela]

I'm going to chime in with Rhino as the voice of the minority. If given the choice, I would take the E VS all day long.

Let's face it, a carat and a half is still a big diamond! And it's true, this one is both big and rare.

 

[strmrdr]

Those diamonds are far apart in terms of quality.
If time is pressing id go for the smaller higher quality diamond.
But if time isnt an issue how about hunting down a diamond that splits the difference.

1.65 ish f-g eyeclean h&a super-ideal

for a price point between those 2.

my 2c

 

[strmrdr]

Here is an example...
gog

for pretty much same price as the 1.52 here is a 1.65 that scores 9.8 isee2 and 2vh and one almost vh on b-scope
gog

 

[researchergirl]

Hello Jeff,
I am a researcher for a tv show based out of New York City, and we are currently working on a Valentine's Day Show. We are looking for a young male who would like to propose to his girlfriend on or close to Valentine's Day. The show would follow you through the process of learning about and eventually buying the ring, and when it's all said and done you get to propose on NATIONAL TV! This opportunity will be both fun and rewarding, so if you are interested, you should contact Scott Phillips at Inside Edition, 1-800-EDITION ex. 5523. You can also email me, Brooke, at [email protected]. I hope that you are interested, so if you are please let us know. In any event, good luck with everything!
Sincerely,
Brooke

 

[Kay]

That's a tough one. If they were the same price, I would choose #1. I think 1.5 carats is plenty big, so I'd rather have the E color, true H&A, and better scores. However, given the $2.5K price difference, I would probably choose the larger one as the better value. It really depends on your budget and her preferences regarding size versus other factors.

 

[copernicus]

I knew this wasn't going to be easy.
The GF says she wants size and beauty

I think she liked closer to a 2 ct size but when she saw the price (20-30K in our B&Ms/tiffs) she said it was too big and rather would have a 1.5. A couple days later when I asked if two rings 1.5 and 2 ct were magically in front of her which would she wear--the 2ct of course!


When we were looking in a B&M, she couldn't tell the difference between an E and G but she could tell and preferred an AGS000 (not even super-ideal) from another ideal type (larger table--can't remember name). To my eye even a 1.5 and 2ct weren't terrfically different in size.

strmrdr..when you say they are far apart in terms of quality, are you referring to clarity/color or cut? this is the crux of my question...both score 1.2 on the hca ex-ex-ex-vg. the smaller has 1a (AGA) proportions but apparently the crown/pav on the larger one is a good match. can you predict which would have the better performance without seeing them?



propose on tv?.....great more stress!!!!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/15/2004 7:41:19 PM copernicus wrote:

I knew this wasn't going to be easy.
The GF says she wants size and beauty

I think she liked closer to a 2 ct size but when she saw the price ?

----------------

Then, I think the question is answered. And I have no *biased* in the decision.

 

[winyan]

I have this setting for my OMC. I'll ask my friend tomorrow where he got it.

win

 

[caratgirl]

I would go for the E VS2 and the TV spot. What a proposal to remember!

 

[strmrdr]

copernicus,

The 1.5 is a gog proven performer that will knock your socks off.
2.5k more but has better color and clarity and a ton of information.

The 1.73 while it might be as nice there isnt anyway of knowing that without the same data.
Is it even h&a or just ags0? I took it as being non-h&a from what you wrote.

But even if it is h&a id still split the difference and go with one of the gog diamonds I linked above.

 

[Hodne]

I have to second this.

 

[valeria101]

Oh well, it seems to me that the issue is more about comparing technical reports than the diamonds themselves. Not that this is not common, unfortunately. Given that if one insists on all the info that GoodOldGold provides on their diamonds, than the only solution is to buy from there: at least Isee2 results I have not seen anywhere else... Would it be worth the effort seeing these two pieces, even if not side by side? If the illusive *perfection* is not the goal here but some optimal balance of cut, color, clarity and size, no idea what could replace the fabled eye of the beholder here. Just my 0.2, of course.

 

[strmrdr]

val val val,

Would it shock you if I said that in my opinion that Rhino's rarity arguement is so full of it that it makes me gag?


Would it further shock you if I said that as I have many times that all of usual ps suspects give enough information that you can tell the diamond is a great one?

Would it further shock you if I said that if I had a diamond with a full gog workup that scored very high on his tests that I would pick it over one that may be just as good but has less info all else being equal or close?

btw according to this:

linkage

World total (rounded) 61,600,000ct of diamonds was mined in 2000
World total (rounded) 60,400,000ct of diamonds was mined in 2001

If you take his number of 1% d/e
That makes:
616,000cts in 2000
604,000cts in 2001

That is hardly what I would call rare.

an interesting tidbit from the link provided is this:
Import Sources (1997-2000): Israel, 40%; India, 21%; Belgium, 20%; and other, 19%. Diamond imports accounted
for 93% of the total value of gem imports.

 

[valeria101]

That's why I love color so much

All good and clear, aside the third statement: there should be a point where more data do not necesarily add more info. It sounds like my such point is lower than yours. I surely get the point that for any seller it is best to offer directly COMPARABLE cut quality measures to any of his competitors', for the buyer's sake. Sort of an arms race, I guess...

 

[Robyn12]

Copernicus --

Congratulations to you on finding a that terrific stone! I think your girlfriend will be thrilled with it. I was wondering if you had any luck finding something similar to that Harry Winston setting that you posted the other day. I love that particular setting as well, and would love to see anything close. Let us know what you've come up with.

Good luck to you.

Robyn