don''t know about you guys but...

[zhuzhu]

te:[/b] 3/5/2009 2:39:48 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

LOL!! i don''t understand chinese.

[/quote]

I thought you grew-up in Hong Kong?

 

[Dancing Fire]

zhu
i came to the US when i was 7 yrs old right after i finished kindergarten.

 

[packrat]

We didn''t vote for him, but we both were talking the other day that we feel bad for the guy. People act like he''s the second coming of Christ, and that''s a HUGE weight to put on someone''s shoulders. One person didn''t get the US into this mess but a lot of people seem to think one person can singlehandedly solve the problems we have now. And apparently he''s supposed to fix what took years to ruin, in just a few weeks. Our priorities are out of whack and they have been for a long time. That''s why someone who can hit a baseball really far and run in a clearly marked line makes millions of dollars a year, while the people who put their lives on the line for us every day, and the people who teach our children, and the people who treat us when we''re sick, make peanuts. The ones who own a company or are the head honchos of a company, make millions and have millions in benefits, while the people who make the company run, are given just enough to pay the bills. There''s a massive discrepancy there..I''m not saying that Joe Blow who works the drive thru at McDonalds should make 200,000 a year, but if things were done differently, it wouldn''t be a bad thing to make $30,000/year. Money used to go further years ago, and I understand there has always been greed, but from what I can tell it''s reached record highs, and it''s disgusting.

Sorry, what were we talking about?

 

[AllieGator]

Date: 3/5/2009 7:35:07 PM
Author: packrat
We didn't vote for him, but we both were talking the other day that we feel bad for the guy. People act like he's the second coming of Christ, and that's a HUGE weight to put on someone's shoulders. One person didn't get the US into this mess but a lot of people seem to think one person can singlehandedly solve the problems we have now. And apparently he's supposed to fix what took years to ruin, in just a few weeks. Our priorities are out of whack and they have been for a long time. That's why someone who can hit a baseball really far and run in a clearly marked line makes millions of dollars a year, while the people who put their lives on the line for us every day, and the people who teach our children, and the people who treat us when we're sick, make peanuts. The ones who own a company or are the head honchos of a company, make millions and have millions in benefits, while the people who make the company run, are given just enough to pay the bills. There's a massive discrepancy there..I'm not saying that Joe Blow who works the drive thru at McDonalds should make 200,000 a year, but if things were done differently, it wouldn't be a bad thing to make $30,000/year. Money used to go further years ago, and I understand there has always been greed, but from what I can tell it's reached record highs, and it's disgusting.


Sorry, what were we talking about?

This is a great post...everything you said makes alot of sense!

I've often thought that the consumer mentality of Americans is part of what got us into this mess--as Americans, we have A LOT of things we don't need.

My parent are both very well educated, but since they are teachers they don't make a lot of money. But, as they've told me, this depression hasn't affected them that much. My parents have a pretty simple life--they drive used cars, they have one computer, one tv, etc etc. BUT they own their house, don't have any debt, and have/are managing to put three kids through college, with relatively few student loans--all on two teachers salaries.

The only pain my parents have really felt is that they lost some of their retirement savings, but they still have enough. I have to think that my parents' being responsible for their money and their possessions, although they are not excessive, has helped them through this.

I know that some people in the current situation got screwed over, but I think that if more people were responsible like my parents are, then this mess might be a little better. If Americans (And I'm guilty of this sometimes--so I'm including myself) stopped feeling like we need the new phone/the new tv/the new car every time something new comes out, we might not be in as deep doodoo as we are right now.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 3/5/2009 10:52:50 AM
Author: tlh

Welfare, food stamps, bailouts. These policies are only good when they act to get people on their feet. When I hear comments about I cannot work because I''ll lose my benefits... that is a load of molarky. This helping hand up, now has become an expected, counted on - hand out.

I read this a couple weeks ago and I must say, I''m concerned.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5733499.ece

RONALD REAGAN started it, Bill Clinton finished it and last week Barack Obama was accused of engineering its destruction. One of the few undisputed triumphs of American government of the past 20 years – the sweeping welfare reform programme that sent millions of dole claimants back to work – has been plunged into jeopardy by billions of dollars in state handouts included in the president’s controversial economic stimulus package.

........

Robert Rector, a prominent welfare researcher who was one of the architects of Clinton''s 1996 reform bill, warned last week that Obama’s stimulus plan was a “welfare spendathon” that would amount to the largest one-year increase in government handouts in American history.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 3/5/2009 9:53:01 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 3/5/2009 10:52:50 AM
Author: tlh

Welfare, food stamps, bailouts. These policies are only good when they act to get people on their feet. When I hear comments about I cannot work because I''ll lose my benefits... that is a load of molarky. This helping hand up, now has become an expected, counted on - hand out.

I read this a couple weeks ago and I must say, I''m concerned.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5733499.ece

RONALD REAGAN started it, Bill Clinton finished it and last week Barack Obama was accused of engineering its destruction. One of the few undisputed triumphs of American government of the past 20 years – the sweeping welfare reform programme that sent millions of dole claimants back to work – has been plunged into jeopardy by billions of dollars in state handouts included in the president’s controversial economic stimulus package.

........

Robert Rector, a prominent welfare researcher who was one of the architects of Clinton''s 1996 reform bill, warned last week that Obama’s stimulus plan was a “welfare spendathon” that would amount to the largest one-year increase in government handouts in American history.

Good article. Real worries.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 3/5/2009 8:32:25 PM
Author: AllieGator

Date: 3/5/2009 7:35:07 PM

Author: packrat

We didn't vote for him, but we both were talking the other day that we feel bad for the guy. People act like he's the second coming of Christ, and that's a HUGE weight to put on someone's shoulders. One person didn't get the US into this mess but a lot of people seem to think one person can singlehandedly solve the problems we have now. And apparently he's supposed to fix what took years to ruin, in just a few weeks. Our priorities are out of whack and they have been for a long time. That's why someone who can hit a baseball really far and run in a clearly marked line makes millions of dollars a year, while the people who put their lives on the line for us every day, and the people who teach our children, and the people who treat us when we're sick, make peanuts. The ones who own a company or are the head honchos of a company, make millions and have millions in benefits, while the people who make the company run, are given just enough to pay the bills. There's a massive discrepancy there..I'm not saying that Joe Blow who works the drive thru at McDonalds should make 200,000 a year, but if things were done differently, it wouldn't be a bad thing to make $30,000/year. Money used to go further years ago, and I understand there has always been greed, but from what I can tell it's reached record highs, and it's disgusting.



Sorry, what were we talking about?

This is a great post...everything you said makes alot of sense!


I've often thought that the consumer mentality of Americans is part of what got us into this mess--as Americans, we have A LOT of things we don't need.


My parent are both very well educated, but since they are teachers they don't make a lot of money. But, as they've told me, this depression hasn't affected them that much. My parents have a pretty simple life--they drive used cars, they have one computer, one tv, etc etc. BUT they own their house, don't have any debt, and have/are managing to put three kids through college, with relatively few student loans--all on two teachers salaries.


The only pain my parents have really felt is that they lost some of their retirement savings, but they still have enough. I have to think that my parents' being responsible for their money and their possessions, although they are not excessive, has helped them through this.


I know that some people in the current situation got screwed over, but I think that if more people were responsible like my parents are, then this mess might be a little better. If Americans (And I'm guilty of this sometimes--so I'm including myself) stopped feeling like we need the new phone/the new tv/the new car every time something new comes out, we might not be in as deep doodoo as we are right now.

Big huge ditto!! That's pretty much how we live too.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 3/5/2009 1:45:14 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 3/5/2009 1:33:33 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 3/5/2009 1:04:00 PM

Author: Dancing Fire



i don''t disagree with helping these companies out just one time but they are asking for billions every month. what good would it do by giving a drug addict more drugs

let some of these banks die,let the auto Co''s go into BK.

I agree there should potentially be a cap on bail outs...in some instances thing can get out of control quickly, there is no denying that. But, have you asked yourself why, up until this point, banks have never been in this position before? And if it were simply a matter of over spending why is it not exclusively one bank in trouble, but rather all of them and all at once?


It''s because people are in trouble...people aren''t paying their bills and the truth is, many of those bills are bank related--mortage, car, credit card. The solution to that is getting a job, a steady paycheck, something solid to depend on and the ability to make ends meet. But you can only get a job, if there is one to be had...close all these businesses and there won''t be jobs, there will be staggering unemployment rates and conditions will be worse than today by a mile.


I applaud banks for cutting the fat. For example, my husband works for BoA and last year he was in the 1% performance bracket which is a huge accomplishment and honor. BoA sent us, along with others, to South Beach for a week to celebrate all expenses paid...we stayed at Loews, golfed, snorkled, sailed, toured the Everglades, dined on amazing food, and we were showered with gifts. But this year, that program doesn''t exsist. It was luxury spending. My husband did get a bonus, but FYI it was cut by over 60% from last year in terms of percentage. Raise? Who knows.


Just because we aren''t always made aware of the significant budget cuts, doesn''t mean they don''t happen. But everyday that someone defaults on a loan, is another tick towards further Govnerment dependancy and need. When Family X''s primary earner loses his/her job and they can''t pay their $3,000 a month mortgage they once could...then what? Just because Family X can''t pay that money doesn''t mean it isn''t owed. It came from somewhere, it belongs to someone...and the bank is left holding the note. But banks are at the point where they cannot afford it either, because just like Family X; A B C D...all did the same thing.


We''re in a whirlpool right now, we''ve sunk pretty low...we need to rebuild at whatever cost.

This is part of the problem though. It''s great that your husband did so well, but sending employees and their families on expensive trips for doing their job is unnecessary. Of course I believe for pay for performance, but the extras have got to stop. Raises and bonuses, though nice to get, are not a given in any job. In principle, your reward for a job well done should be your agreed upon salary paid on time and the promise of continued employment.

Why should they stop? The guy did a great job, probably made some serious $$ for BofA. I don''t think it is unnecessary at all.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 3/5/2009 2:06:44 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 3/5/2009 1:45:14 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk



This is part of the problem though. It''s great that your husband did so well, but sending employees and their families on expensive trips for doing their job is unnecessary. Of course I believe for pay for performance, but the extras have got to stop. Raises and bonuses, though nice to get, are not a given in any job. In principle, your reward for a job well done should be your agreed upon salary paid on time and the promise of continued employment.

Like I said...that was last year (200 but was for the calander year of 2007. This year that award isn''t given, and there isn''t any lavish vacations. When we were gifted this trip, we were not in a recession/depression. So, in regards to your comment...it has stopped in light of the current economic conditions. But I hope someday it does come back, because it was a wonderful thing for my husband...and everyone else who won.

But, I disagree with not rewarding employees for a job well done. I think people should be acknowledged when they''ve gone above and beyond or exceeded their job title and expectations. In today''s world that not as common as you''d think, most people just enough to get by. So if someone is motivated or will be motivated by recognition, then thats something that should be seen as positive. We''re a culture that gives trophies, and awards when someone does well. We watch sports to see who will win, and we dedicate entire nights to movies that blow us away, we support our kids little league dreams and proudly display their medals when they finish a season. People rarely feel ''perfectly'' compensated for their jobs...so if giving a bonus or a raise helps them feel appreciated, whats the problem? The cost of living in general goes up every year...if we all just made what we did when we started working, we''d all be in a sad sad state. Every year people need to make more just to maintain their lifestyle.

I agree with you 100%. Some people just resent successful people and are jealous that they get the nice rewards. I can see people being upset that any tax dollars went to pay for this stuff but I think when things are going well, it is perfectly fine.

 

[partgypsy]

I echo what someone else said, this took years to get to this point, it is ludicrous that people think that it should take weeks to turn around. After that I am not sure what is the ideal strategy.

I always thought that our government should be run more fiscally conservative, it cannot be all things to all people, we should not start wars, build up big missle programs, run up bigger and bigger deficits. If we make a promise for social security, to keep that money separately and not raid it for other projects. I have deep disagreements with the way fiscally the national government has been run, because to tell you the truth it puts us, our country in a vulnerable position.

The ironic thing is that if we had deficit levels similar to the Clinton years when this happened this would be alot smoother ride. There would be international trust that even if the US went a little in the red we would recover. Not only are we in a recession, it''s like we''ve already spent the money we could use to stimulate the economy. We didn''t save for a rainy day, so I don''t see things going very smoothly.
I don''t want to see people starving, but I don''t care if some banks or business go bankrupt. You can''t save everything, and it irritates me that some of these banks are getting money and then sitting on it to save their own asses but not doing anything to help the situation.

There were some people at the very top who made off very well when the economy was inflated. Those people will not be too affected by the recession because they have their golden parachutes. It''s the little guy who profited the least when things were going well who will be affected the most, and I don''t see that changing.

 

[AllieGator]

Date: 3/6/2009 8:01:06 AM
Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 3/5/2009 2:06:44 PM

Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 3/5/2009 1:45:14 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk





This is part of the problem though. It''s great that your husband did so well, but sending employees and their families on expensive trips for doing their job is unnecessary. Of course I believe for pay for performance, but the extras have got to stop. Raises and bonuses, though nice to get, are not a given in any job. In principle, your reward for a job well done should be your agreed upon salary paid on time and the promise of continued employment.

Like I said...that was last year (200 but was for the calander year of 2007. This year that award isn''t given, and there isn''t any lavish vacations. When we were gifted this trip, we were not in a recession/depression. So, in regards to your comment...it has stopped in light of the current economic conditions. But I hope someday it does come back, because it was a wonderful thing for my husband...and everyone else who won.


But, I disagree with not rewarding employees for a job well done. I think people should be acknowledged when they''ve gone above and beyond or exceeded their job title and expectations. In today''s world that not as common as you''d think, most people just enough to get by. So if someone is motivated or will be motivated by recognition, then thats something that should be seen as positive. We''re a culture that gives trophies, and awards when someone does well. We watch sports to see who will win, and we dedicate entire nights to movies that blow us away, we support our kids little league dreams and proudly display their medals when they finish a season. People rarely feel ''perfectly'' compensated for their jobs...so if giving a bonus or a raise helps them feel appreciated, whats the problem? The cost of living in general goes up every year...if we all just made what we did when we started working, we''d all be in a sad sad state. Every year people need to make more just to maintain their lifestyle.

I agree with you 100%. Some people just resent successful people and are jealous that they get the nice rewards. I can see people being upset that any tax dollars went to pay for this stuff but I think when things are going well, it is perfectly fine.

I agree with you that people should be rewarded, but I think some of the resentment comes from people in essential jobs without high pay.

There are certain jobs with low incomes, compared to the education required. Some that come to mind are teachers, nurses, and social workers. The country would probably come to a stop without them, but they don''t make very much money.

For instance, my brother''s fiancee teaches in an inner-city school in NYC. She has to ride the train an hour and half everyday each way, because she can''t afford to live in Manhattan, and the neighborhood her school is in is quite dangerous for a young, single female (especially one like her, who is 5''1'''' and weighs 110 lbs.).

I think it irks people in those positions, because they have a hard time making ends meet in an essential job, and then they see people who already have six figure salaries getting bonuses larger than their annual salaries.

I know no one MADE them be teachers, but if all the teachers in the US had "worked harder" and gotten higher paying jobs, our education system would be in a crisis.

I think that''s where the resentment comes from, but I don''t know everything. I have no problem with bonuses during good economic times, but I will admit I was perturbed when people''s bonuses were paid out of the bailout money.

 

[packrat]

I don''t think a bonus for a job well done is a bad thing per se. I wonder what happened to the days when people did a good job at their job, for the sole satisfaction of doing something well. I wonder what happened to the days of a boss coming by to say "Hey, you did awesome today, we really appreciate how hard you worked to land that client". What happened to a pat on the back being enough? A bonus for going above and beyond, yes, but thousands and thousands of dollars? As I mentioned before, our priorities are skewed. Our idea of a valuable skillset is cockeyed. Most people in un-rewarded jobs aren''t there for the crappy paycheck and non existent bonuses. Most people do it for the reward of the job itself.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 3/6/2009 10:33:14 AM
Author: AllieGator

Date: 3/6/2009 8:01:06 AM

Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 3/5/2009 2:06:44 PM


Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 3/5/2009 1:45:14 PM


Author: Hudson_Hawk







This is part of the problem though. It''s great that your husband did so well, but sending employees and their families on expensive trips for doing their job is unnecessary. Of course I believe for pay for performance, but the extras have got to stop. Raises and bonuses, though nice to get, are not a given in any job. In principle, your reward for a job well done should be your agreed upon salary paid on time and the promise of continued employment.

Like I said...that was last year (200 but was for the calander year of 2007. This year that award isn''t given, and there isn''t any lavish vacations. When we were gifted this trip, we were not in a recession/depression. So, in regards to your comment...it has stopped in light of the current economic conditions. But I hope someday it does come back, because it was a wonderful thing for my husband...and everyone else who won.



But, I disagree with not rewarding employees for a job well done. I think people should be acknowledged when they''ve gone above and beyond or exceeded their job title and expectations. In today''s world that not as common as you''d think, most people just enough to get by. So if someone is motivated or will be motivated by recognition, then thats something that should be seen as positive. We''re a culture that gives trophies, and awards when someone does well. We watch sports to see who will win, and we dedicate entire nights to movies that blow us away, we support our kids little league dreams and proudly display their medals when they finish a season. People rarely feel ''perfectly'' compensated for their jobs...so if giving a bonus or a raise helps them feel appreciated, whats the problem? The cost of living in general goes up every year...if we all just made what we did when we started working, we''d all be in a sad sad state. Every year people need to make more just to maintain their lifestyle.

I agree with you 100%. Some people just resent successful people and are jealous that they get the nice rewards. I can see people being upset that any tax dollars went to pay for this stuff but I think when things are going well, it is perfectly fine.

I agree with you that people should be rewarded, but I think some of the resentment comes from people in essential jobs without high pay.


There are certain jobs with low incomes, compared to the education required. Some that come to mind are teachers, nurses, and social workers. The country would probably come to a stop without them, but they don''t make very much money.


For instance, my brother''s fiancee teaches in an inner-city school in NYC. She has to ride the train an hour and half everyday each way, because she can''t afford to live in Manhattan, and the neighborhood her school is in is quite dangerous for a young, single female (especially one like her, who is 5''1'''' and weighs 110 lbs.).


I think it irks people in those positions, because they have a hard time making ends meet in an essential job, and then they see people who already have six figure salaries getting bonuses larger than their annual salaries.


I know no one MADE them be teachers, but if all the teachers in the US had ''worked harder'' and gotten higher paying jobs, our education system would be in a crisis.


I think that''s where the resentment comes from, but I don''t know everything. I have no problem with bonuses during good economic times, but I will admit I was perturbed when people''s bonuses were paid out of the bailout money.

Thanks Allie! My bonus has always been paid in hugs, which are priceless, but don''t pay the mortgage.

 

[AllieGator]

Date: 3/7/2009 7:32:13 AM
Author: swimmer

Date: 3/6/2009 10:33:14 AM

Author: AllieGator

Date: 3/6/2009 8:01:06 AM


Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 3/5/2009 2:06:44 PM



Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 3/5/2009 1:45:14 PM



Author: Hudson_Hawk









This is part of the problem though. It''s great that your husband did so well, but sending employees and their families on expensive trips for doing their job is unnecessary. Of course I believe for pay for performance, but the extras have got to stop. Raises and bonuses, though nice to get, are not a given in any job. In principle, your reward for a job well done should be your agreed upon salary paid on time and the promise of continued employment.

Like I said...that was last year (200 but was for the calander year of 2007. This year that award isn''t given, and there isn''t any lavish vacations. When we were gifted this trip, we were not in a recession/depression. So, in regards to your comment...it has stopped in light of the current economic conditions. But I hope someday it does come back, because it was a wonderful thing for my husband...and everyone else who won.




But, I disagree with not rewarding employees for a job well done. I think people should be acknowledged when they''ve gone above and beyond or exceeded their job title and expectations. In today''s world that not as common as you''d think, most people just enough to get by. So if someone is motivated or will be motivated by recognition, then thats something that should be seen as positive. We''re a culture that gives trophies, and awards when someone does well. We watch sports to see who will win, and we dedicate entire nights to movies that blow us away, we support our kids little league dreams and proudly display their medals when they finish a season. People rarely feel ''perfectly'' compensated for their jobs...so if giving a bonus or a raise helps them feel appreciated, whats the problem? The cost of living in general goes up every year...if we all just made what we did when we started working, we''d all be in a sad sad state. Every year people need to make more just to maintain their lifestyle.

I agree with you 100%. Some people just resent successful people and are jealous that they get the nice rewards. I can see people being upset that any tax dollars went to pay for this stuff but I think when things are going well, it is perfectly fine.

I agree with you that people should be rewarded, but I think some of the resentment comes from people in essential jobs without high pay.



There are certain jobs with low incomes, compared to the education required. Some that come to mind are teachers, nurses, and social workers. The country would probably come to a stop without them, but they don''t make very much money.



For instance, my brother''s fiancee teaches in an inner-city school in NYC. She has to ride the train an hour and half everyday each way, because she can''t afford to live in Manhattan, and the neighborhood her school is in is quite dangerous for a young, single female (especially one like her, who is 5''1'''' and weighs 110 lbs.).



I think it irks people in those positions, because they have a hard time making ends meet in an essential job, and then they see people who already have six figure salaries getting bonuses larger than their annual salaries.



I know no one MADE them be teachers, but if all the teachers in the US had ''worked harder'' and gotten higher paying jobs, our education system would be in a crisis.



I think that''s where the resentment comes from, but I don''t know everything. I have no problem with bonuses during good economic times, but I will admit I was perturbed when people''s bonuses were paid out of the bailout money.

Thanks Allie! My bonus has always been paid in hugs, which are priceless, but don''t pay the mortgage.

No problem, swimmer! As the daughter of two teachers who wouldn''t trade their jobs for anything, I know how it works! I''m probably going into teaching myself, and I personally don''t care how low the salary is...because I''d be doing something worthwhile.