Donald Trump and Women (In Depth)

[AGBF]

This article from, "The New York Times" is absolutely fascinating. At first I thought it might not be anything different than another exposé about a politician's lechery (although, of course, Donald Trump was never a politician). In other words, if all this article did was to detail how Donald Trump had had extra-marital affairs and made advances (some unwelcome) to women, we might as well have written the article about President Clinton!

However, that is not all that is in the article! There is a wealth of insight into how Donald Trump treats (and views) women that goes beyond his wanting to bed them (like so many red-blooded American male Presidential wannabes and Presidents). There is insight into the game-playing in which he has engaged and the name-calling in which he has engaged. One really has to read it in order to see what interesting facets of Trump's character have been revealed. As my friend's mother once said of her husband, "he'd be a psychiatrist's delight".

Crossing the Line: How Donald Trump Behaved With Women in Private...http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

AGBF

 

[monarch64]

Vagina envy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womb_and_vagina_envy

 

[CJ2008]

I enjoyed the article.

I don't agree with those who say that the fact that he hired women to hold positions of power in his companies means he respects women...all that it means is that he took advantage of the fact that women do have a strong work ethic. He said many times how the fact that women seem to want to "prove themselves" is "wonderful." The only thing that would make me take a second look at this as anything other than doing what he knows is going to benefit him is if he paid these women either exactly the same OR BETTER than he was paying men in similar positions. And if these women were not expected to carry any slack from their male counterparts.

 

[arkieb1]

What I don't understand is lots of people keep saying they won't vote for Hillary because they can't trust her because she didn't leave Bill, because she is corrupt, because she is x or Y..... Yet they will vote for a despicable man like Donald.

 

[AGBF]

Vagina envy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womb_and_vagina_envy

I tried to comment on this earlier, Monnie, but real life kept getting in the way. I find the psychoanalytical view (Karen Horney's) interesting, but it never gained the traction that Freud's theory about penis envy did. Probably because, as the Wikipedia article stated, individual psychoanalyses were insufficient in number to prove that her theory was actually true in reality.

On the other hand, if one looks at anthropology rather than psychoanalysis, one can see a truly clear belief that at one point in time humans thought that women carried special-and immensely powerful-magic. And that this belief was universal, crossing many cultures. If one looks at the transition from hunter-gatherer societies to civilization, one sees that with settling in one place and with the raising of crops there was an attendant worship of fertility goddesses. Statuettes of pregnant women were worshipped by the people of these civilizations, like ancient Sumer. Luckily for us, many are extant today due to careful archaeolgy. We can see that men felt that women ruled the cycles of the weather and the climate, just as they had the power over giving birth while all men could excrete was feces. It is impossible to ignore the psychological power that women had at that time in early history. It is likely that it lurks somewhere in our collective unconscious.

 

[kenny]

I don't understand how, in this day and age, there could be any women who are republicans.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't understand how, in this day and age, there could be any women who are republicans.

You and me both.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't understand how, in this day and age, there could be any women who are republicans.

There are only 9 on PS. They are almost as rare as Octavias...

 

[Gypsy]

DF you could be Trump yourself. All you need is a record of businesses and bankruptcies, a bad wig, and a narcissistic personality disorder. You have all the same views and same way of expressing them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF you could be Trump yourself. All you need is a record of businesses and bankruptcies, a bad wig, and a narcissistic personality disorder. You have all the same views and same way of expressing them.

I will not be voting this Nov. unless Clinton leans more towards the middle.

 

[Gypsy]

Who knows what Hillary will do.
I agree with John Stewart about her lack of authenticity. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/12/jon-stewart-perfectly-diagnosed-the-problem-with-hillary-clintons-candidacy/

She's the Gumby. She'll do whatever it takes to get elected, I believe. I wish the 'real' Hillary, whoever that is, comes out. I doubt it though. We didn't get the real Al Gore (who might have actually won the election) until after he lost. The Democratic party leadership seems to think that plastic candidates with elastic convictions are what is going to them to the White House again. And then they are shocked when people vote for 'real' candidates like Bernie and Trump. And Trump is real. He's a real life Lex Luthor. But he's real. And that's Hillary's Achilles heel, she's not.

 

[Gypsy]

On the subject of not voting, I'll tell you what I told my nephew when the threatened the same:

I don't get this on the fence entitlement thing people have about voting. It's our duty as citizens to vote. It's our privilege. Not to vote "if this or if that." If my candidate is on the ballot or not. You vote, because people have died to secure you a place in this county, and to secure your right to vote. Duty. Look it up folks. If you don't vote you DO NOT have the right to complain! How many of you voted in the primaries? Do you know how many people would kill to have your rights and duties in this country? Just for the opportunity to vote freely. And you take it for granted, and ignore it when it suits you. Especially those of you becoming parents! This is the country your children will INHERIT. You don't get to sit at home and ignore that. You must fight for it, and shape it, and do your duty to it. Just like your parents did. And their parents did. You aren't children anymore. As for those of you who are minorities and women. It's even WORSE than the white males not voting. Do you know what generations before you had to DO to get your entitled tails the vote? As for those of you who are naturalized citizens or first generation: why do you think you came to America? What is the American dream? Democracy, even a representative democracy like ours, doesn't work right if you sit at home, bitch and moan and do not vote.


That's a cut and paste straight from what I wrote him.

 

[Dancing Fire]

As for those of you who are naturalized citizens or first generation: why do you think you came to America? What is the American dream? Democracy, even a representative democracy like ours, doesn't work right if you sit at home, bitch and moan and do not vote.

It is exactly 50 yrs since I immigrated to the U.S. back then you hardly ever hear the word "entitlement" mentioned, but nowadays the young and able wants everything for free. That is main reason why Sanders is so popular with the younger crowd. During the past 50 yrs a lot have changed in our society and it is not for the better...

 

[Gypsy]

The young want everything free?


You do too, pot. If you don't vote. And you sit and complain about politics. So I wouldn't point to the young and call that kettle black, if I were you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The young want everything free?


You do too, pot. If you don't vote. And you sit and complain about politics. So I wouldn't point to the young and call that kettle black, if I were you.

I was gonna vote for Rubio but now that he's out of the race... . Well, let just say I am undecided for now.

 

[Gypsy]

As for 1966. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_in_the_United_States

I'm sure it was much better. That's sarcasm in case it doesn't come though.

How many times did you get called some nasty name when you moved here DF? We were involved in Vietnam. I wouldn't have wanted to be Asian here at that time. Were you ever threatened just because you were from another country, the shape of your eyes, and the color of your skin?
There was no Civil Right Act for another 2 years. But at least the Voting rights act had been passed. So that's something. Of course AA were still being shot for trying to enforce that right.
Martin Luther was living in a slum and unaware he would be assassinated in two short years. Malcom X had just been assassinated.
There was no Roe v Wade so women were dying in back alleys from botched abortions.
Kenny would have been beaten to death for being gay.

You know who it was better for? Straight white men. You know what you're not? White. You know what your grandchildren won't be? White.

You know who stopped all of that and REALLY made America great? Progressives and Liberals. And still you want a more 'moderate" candidate. Right. But by all means, vote against your own interests just for the sake of less taxes. Cause that's all that matters. Money.

All of that progress we've made SINCE 1966. That's what the people who are voting for Trump are trying to undo. Make America Great Again? Make America white, Christian and bigoted again more like. Let's have women dying from abortions again. Beat people up for what bathroom they use. That's what those people are trying to bring back. Does the anti-immigrant and anti-muslim rhetoric sound familiar to you? It should its what you would have heard in good Ole 1966-- except then it was aimed at YOU. So sit on your fence and mourn Rubio. Because none of that matters right? You want your grandchildren to fight all those battles all over again? No??? Well, then I suggest you consider voting AGAINST Trump. Roe v. Wade has been crippled. The Voting Rights Act too. It is happening right NOW. Even if it means voting for a liberal Hillary. Because you DID live through that, and you should NOT want to bring it back in the world your grandchildren will inherit.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You know who it was better for? Straight white men. You know what you're not? White. You know what your grandchildren won't be? White.

You know who stopped all of that and REALLY made America great? Progressives and Liberals. And still you want a more 'moderate" candidate. Right. But by all means, vote against your own interests just for the sake of less taxes. Cause that's all that matters. Money.

All of that progress we've made SINCE 1966. That's what the people who are voting for Trump are trying to undo. Make America Great Again? Make America white, Christian and bigoted again more like. Have women dying from abortions again. Beat people up for what bathroom they use. That's what those people are trying to bring back. So sit on your fence and mourn Rubio. Because none of that matters right? You want your grandchildren to fight all those battles all over again? No??? Well, then I suggest you consider voting AGAINST Trump. Even if it means voting for a liberal Hillary. Because you DID live through that, and you should NOT want to bring it back in the world your grandchildren will inherit.

My brother said ...I have turn white. He is way more left than you...
We have our first black Prez. in history. Tell me what Obama have done in the past 7.5 yrs to help black Americans?.. More blacks are kill on the street everyday since he became Prez. More blacks are unemployed since he became Prez. Black incomes have gone down since he became Prez.

We have been fighting poverty since LBJ was Prez. Until there are more jobs created more people will go on welfare.

 

[Gypsy]

Tell me again. Who did Obama inherit the economy from, DF?

Oh wait? Wasn't it George W. Who I KNOW you voted for. Twice! Do you really think Romney would have done any better?

So blame Obama for this. All you care about is 200 bucks a month of welfare some starving family qualifies for? What about Corporate welfare? What about the that? That costs us millions. No, billions. You think the YOUNG are about entitlement because they want educations free from crippling debt? How about the entitlements corporations get? Why don't you focus on those. That's why the young are voting for Sanders. Because they are sick of corporate greed, not because they want free stuff. Trickle down economic got us here. Corporate welfare got us here. Loopholes in the law and tax code, paid for by corporate lobbyists, got us here. Not Obama. And not the young.

And AA still have it better now than 1966 which you long for so fondly. As for what Obama did for AA? He shattered a ceiling and took on the hated of the right for the color of his skin. That's what he did.

Trump has a series of corporate bankruptcies, a loophole he exploited and brags about. You really think he is what the economy needs? He is the disease not the cure.

 

[momhappy]

I don't understand how, in this day and age, there could be any women who are republicans.

Isn't it obvious, Kenny? It's because people vary - even in this day and age

 

[AGBF]

I don't understand how, in this day and age, there could be any women who are republicans.

Isn't it obvious, Kenny? It's because people vary - even in this day and age

(Some think things through and some don't.)

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Thanks Deb for such an informative and well written piece on the history of the value of women. I am not sure of this but I believe before Christianity there was a goddess who was worshipped by the name of Isis. In my mind I find it funny that a terror group has chosen this as their name. Or, maybe in the collective unconscious it has risen up again, without them,(the terrorists)
being aware of it.

Now, for Gypsy-- I think you are over estimating all sorts of bigotry toward foreigners. During the second world war Asians were treated badly, but I can't remember any bad talk. Yes, at that time people used words like Wop, Polack, Kraut, Spic, Jap, and others that don't come to mind right now. But, it was generally accepted and if your friends or enemies called you that, it didn't spark any fights--some name calling perhaps. So, I think your use of DF as an example is misplaced. The bigotry has been directed at Jews and blacks in this country.

The struggle for civil rights is on-going. But lets not confuse civil rights with demands from all segments of the population for Gov to keep providing any number of benefits to a population that keeps demanding more and more. Now, people think it is perfectly reasonable to demand benefits for an illegal population that has grown so large, Gov't is unable to deal with it. I have read where communities have to pay for their medical without reimbursement from the federal Gov't. These communities are hurting. Our middleclass is really shrinking and while some have risen upward, other have fallen to the classification of "poor". Our emphasis , IMO, ought to be on the middleclass.

My impression of problems in our society comes from unintended consequences of action by Gv't, that were for good reasons, but backfire. Gov't made it easier to get student loans, mortgages and small business loans, ect medicare, and drug insurance.. Each of these made colleges expand, up tuition, and act more like a business than an institution for learning. Gov't, not intentionally, promotes greed in suppliers of the above services. You should see how much my drugs have gone up. Shocking.

Kenny-- I have always wondered myself how a Christian could be Republican.

I truly have enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks All.

 

[AGBF]

Thanks Deb for such an informative and well written piece on the history of the value of women. I am not sure of this but I believe before Christianity there was a goddess who was worshipped by the name of Isis. In my mind I find it funny that a terror group has chosen this as their name. Or, maybe in the collective unconscious it has risen up again, without them,(the terrorists)
being aware of it.

Thank you for the compliment, Annette, but I would hardly call my posting a "piece". At first I didn't even know what you were referring to! I do know that there was an ancient Egyptian (which would have been pre-Christian) goddess called Isis. She was not part of the Muslim religion, of course, since that was not founded until after after Judaism and Christianity.

Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

Tell me again. Who did Obama inherit the economy from, DF?

Oh wait? Wasn't it George W. Who I KNOW you voted for. Twice! Do you really think Romney would have done any better?

So blame Obama for this. All you care about is 200 bucks a month of welfare some starving family qualifies for? What about Corporate welfare? What about the that? That costs us millions. No, billions. You think the YOUNG are about entitlement because they want educations free from crippling debt? How about the entitlements corporations get? Why don't you focus on those. That's why the young are voting for Sanders. Because they are sick of corporate greed, not because they want free stuff. Trickle down economic got us here. Corporate welfare got us here. Loopholes in the law and tax code, paid for by corporate lobbyists, got us here. Not Obama. And not the young.

And AA still have it better now than 1966 which you long for so fondly. As for what Obama did for AA? He shattered a ceiling and took on the hated of the right for the color of his skin. That's what he did.

Trump has a series of corporate bankruptcies, a loophole he exploited and brags about. You really think he is what the economy needs? He is the disease not the cure.

Yes, Obama inherited an horrible economy but so did Reagan, but Reagan turned our economy around by creating millions of jobs. You wanna put all the big corps out of business? so you wanna see more people unemploy?

Free education? I am for free education up to the community college level beyond that level the student should take out a loan and pay after they graduate from college.

I have been living here in the U.S. for the past 50 yrs and I have never felt discriminated b/c I am Chinese.

As for what Obama did for AA? Maybe you should remind Prez Obama and his buddy Mayor Rahm Emanuel that AA is killing AA everyday on the streets of Chicago. btw; isn't Chicago his home town? Why doesn't he try to stop the violences in his home town?..

I am not against every Dem. Prez. You won't hear me say anything negative about B. Clinton b/c our economy was thriving under his watch.

 

[Gypsy]

​

DF. All you care about is money and it is sad. The world is burning around you and you don't care because money is all that matters to you. As for Bill Clinton and his policies: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

He bares a HUGE amount of responsibility for this mess too. He undid Depression era regulations that led to the housing mortgage criss because economically he was too moderate.

That's one of primary reasons I don't like Hillary-- she's not left enough for me.

Annette, But I am not over estimating anything. My family is from Iran and we immigrated here in the 198Os there was more than name calling. There were threats even to me as a 4th grader. As for the Chinese, I've had many Asian friends and I've compared notes with them about racism they experienced. That too is more than name calling. One of my friends from highschool was the result of a racially motivated rape in 1974 in CA. Her mother was gang raped by white men and tortured for being an "oriental slut." They had done this to other women as well. Her famiily disowned her when she turned up pregnant. And she went through hell to get a job in the white world. My own mother was assulted by a cop in LA and hit repearedly at a traffic stop as I watched, an 8 year old, because she was a "terrorist." As a 12 year old I watched a salesman at Macys give my grandfather hell for his accent (which was mild and he spoke excellent english) while we tried to buy a new mattress. He was the manager of the department. After 9/11 I lied about my ethnicity to stay safe while we lived in NJ.

So please, do not try to whitewash the immigrant experience in the US. I've lived it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

​

DF. All you care about is money and it is sad. The world is burning around you and you don't care because money is all that matters to you. As for Bill Clinton and his policies: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

He bares a HUGE amount of responsibility for this mess too. He undid Depression era regulations that led to the housing mortgage criss because economically he was too moderate.

That's one of primary reasons I don't like Hillary-- she's not left enough for me.

How far left do you wanna take our country? Do you want the U.S. to become a communist country?... Even China is moving more towards capitalism thus the reason their economy have flourished in the past 25 yrs.

 

[azstonie]

​

DF. All you care about is money and it is sad. The world is burning around you and you don't care because money is all that matters to you. As for Bill Clinton and his policies: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

He bares a HUGE amount of responsibility for this mess too. He undid Depression era regulations that led to the housing mortgage criss because economically he was too moderate.

That's one of primary reasons I don't like Hillary-- she's not left enough for me.

How far left do you wanna take our country? Do you want the U.S. to become a communist country?... Even China is moving more towards capitalism thus the reason their economy have flourished in the past 25 yrs.

DF: Become a student of history---there have been several periods of income disparity identical to what the US has today. You create a large enough underclass whose only option is to be cannon fodder or organ donors, well that is when the revolution arrives. We have well enough money that every American have single payer health insurance, all children receive a good education from teachers who weren't scraped off the bottom of society's barrel, and mental health and addiction illnesses are correctly and immediately addressed, reducing violence and the wasting of lives.

Or we keep going as we have: Lousy public education, incompetent healthcare killing you with medical errors and infections, lousy jobs with no retirement or pensions, crumbling and dangerous bridges, electrical and gas blowups/blowouts, angry gun-toting young men in the first flush of schizophrenia, etc.

And you're against a safe social structure to hang on to a couple extra dollars? Good luck when the mob comes.

 

[Gypsy]

AZ stone said it better than I could.
DF, labels like "communism" or "socialism" have been abused to the point that all they do is ignore the positive contributions of those systems to an enlightened society. I don't want any "one" label. I want a blend of the positives of both capitalism and socialism, with some other theories thrown in. And yes, I do not mind paying higher taxes to achieve a society and economy that is greater than the sum of it's parts that includes taking care of the poor, making sure our children don't starve, and reforming the healthcare system so that it rewards cures and good health instead of a system that profits from keeping people sick.

Annette, as to your healthcare costs. That largely due to the fact that we were not able to implement single payer, as we could have without the interference of the right.

 

[AGBF]

As for Bill Clinton and his policies

(snip)

He bares a HUGE amount of responsibility for this mess too. He undid Depression era regulations that led to the housing mortgage criss because economically he was too moderate.

That's one of primary reasons I don't like Hillary-- she's not left enough for me.

Thank you for your wonderful postings on President Clinton's domestic policies towards the poor, Gypsy. (I noticed I typed "towards" the poor and left it; that is how I feel about them. I feel he aimed his big guns at the poor and let them take the flak while he went unscathed through the battle. Most of the voters didn't care about people on welfare, so he won over a huge number of voters who had been railing against "welfare queens" for decades. In reality little children became hungrier and more became homeless while Wall Street types got richer and richer and richer. The day he cut welfare is a day that will go down in infamy. Thank you for bringing it to the fore.

This is from, "The New York Times"

"CLINTON SIGNS BILL CUTTING WELFARE
CLINTON SIGNS BILL CUTTING WELFARE; STATES IN NEW ROLE
By FRANCIS X. CLINES
Published: August 23, 1996


WASHINGTON, Aug. 22— In a sweeping reversal of Federal policy, President Clinton today ended six decades of guaranteed help to the nation's poorest children by signing into law a vast welfare overhaul requiring the 50 states to deal more directly with the social burdens and the budget expense of poverty.

'Today we are taking a historic chance to make welfare what it was meant to be: a second chance, not a way of life,' Mr. Clinton declared in signing the measure, which will affect tens of millions of poor Americans, largely by mandating work requirements and imposing a five-year lifetime limit on welfare help to needy families.

With his signature, at a Rose Garden ceremony, the President eliminated a pillar of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal social welfare program, delighting the Republican-controlled Congress in this election year and incensing many of his fellow Democrats.

Mr. Clinton, hailing the law as 'good and solid' progress, expressed hope that the partisan edge would now be eliminated from the nation's frustrations over welfare. But moments after the signing, the Presidential campaign of Bob Dole commented, 'By selling out his own party, Bill Clinton has proven he is ideologically adrift.'

On the Democratic side, the enactment was decried as a 'moment of shame' by Marion Wright Edelman, the president of the Children's Defense Fund and a longtime friend of Hillary Rodham Clinton, who was the fund's co-chairwoman until the 1992 election. Another frequent Clinton defender, Senator Paul Simon, Democrat of Illinois, rued the President's signature by declaring, 'This isn't welfare reform, it's welfare denial.'"

 

[Gypsy]

AGBF, yeah, he has a lot to answer for Deb. He was socially left, but fiscally he was far too right. I can't I think either of his opponents in either election would have been better for us, unfortunately. So I can't totally regret voting for him. But I do think that his economic policies were terrible for us as a nation. I don't want another elastic Clinton in the White House. But I don't want Trump either.

I wish, not for the first time, we had a viable multiparty system. I think the nation would benefit greatly from more than two options in ALL elections, but primarily in the Presidential elections.

 

[azstonie]

​

DF. All you care about is money and it is sad. The world is burning around you and you don't care because money is all that matters to you. As for Bill Clinton and his policies: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

He bares a HUGE amount of responsibility for this mess too. He undid Depression era regulations that led to the housing mortgage criss because economically he was too moderate.

That's one of primary reasons I don't like Hillary-- she's not left enough for me.

How far left do you wanna take our country? Do you want the U.S. to become a communist country?... Even China is moving more towards capitalism thus the reason their economy have flourished in the past 25 yrs.

DF: My apologies.