Doing some research about lab-grown diamonds

[iraweissman]

Have any of you purchased a lab grown diamond in the last few years? If so, would you be willing to answer a few questions? I'm compiling some research for an article on the subject, and I'm looking to get some data points from people. I'd like to know the following about your purchase:
Date
Price (before taxes)
Color
Clarity
Certification
Cut grade if round
Shape
Store purchased from

I'm eternally grateful to anyone willing to answer! If you don't want to publicly share what you paid, please feel free to contact me privately.

 

[ChristineRose]

iraweissman,

Very few regulars on PS have purchased lab diamonds. In fact very few people generally have purchased them, at least compared to the number that purchase mined stones.

Most people purchase them because they object to certain aspects of the diamond industry, not because they think that they are better in some way.

 

[iraweissman]

I'm not looking for hundreds of responses. I'll be very grateful for whatever responses I can get!

 

[SimoneDi]

If it helps, I'm not fond of them either and I believe my research will prove a very big point against them.

Cool.. again not to offend anyone's tastes, but the majority of PS folks are not after lab made diamonds. I know that there are a few regulars on the lab made forum, so I hope that they can chime in!

I am familiar with your website and I am aware that you possess much knowledge when it comes to diamonds, so no need for a prosumer to educate you here but obviously one of the biggest issues with lab made is that their resale value is virtually nonexistent with some exceptions. The secondary market has proven difficult to establish. There is a larger secondary market for diamond substitutes. If you browse through loupetroop and diamondbistro and see what is being sold there, that can give you a good idea of what people of buying in relation to diamonds, lab-made and synthetics.

A PS member is currently trying to sell her lab-made 3+ct diamond in pre-loved: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...al-j-vs2-brilliant-earth.234995/#post-4237054

You can see that her asking price is pretty competitive, the diamond appears pretty, yet interest in her item is lacking.

Again, I hope that you find the info you are looking for here, but the population of lab-created diamond lovers is smaller on PS. Another forum, which we are not allowed to mention, may be more beneficial to you. I will call it "WB" for reference purposes.

Lastly, as a natural diamond lover, I will say that if I am ever to buy a lab-made diamond is will be a blue diamond from D.NEA as I can never afford a natural one in my preferred size

 

[rockysalamander]

You may want to post a similar request on the WeddingBee - Rings forum. There seems to be a good number who elected for lab-created for mostly ethical reasons and some for cost reasons.

Edited to add. I concur with the challenge being the secondary market and the name "lab created". I think this has been abused by those selling fancy CZs (I'm looking at you Diamond Nexus) and others. So, people are often unclear if they are buying a CZ or diamond. Moissanite has been marked as a simulant and just called moissanite. So, I think consumer confidence is also lacking given the abuse of the word.

 

[SimoneDi]

You may want to post a similar request on the WeddingBee - Rings forum. There seems to be a good number who elected for lab-created for mostly ethical reasons and some for cost reasons.

That's the forum we are supposed to be hush-hush about

But yes +1 on that suggestion from me.

 

[rockysalamander]

Oops.

 

[ChristineRose]

You may want to post a similar request on the WeddingBee - Rings forum. There seems to be a good number who elected for lab-created for mostly ethical reasons and some for cost reasons.

Edited to add. I concur with the challenge being the secondary market and the name "lab created". I think this has been abused by those selling fancy CZs (I'm looking at you Diamond Nexus) and others. So, people are often unclear if they are buying a CZ or diamond. Moissanite has been marked as a simulant and just called moissanite. So, I think consumer confidence is also lacking given the abuse of the word.

Moissanite is also a trade name as well as a patented product, and not only do people sell counterfeit Moissanite they also sell other forms of silicon carbide as Moissanite, including the rather stupid "black Moissanite," aka polishing tools.

FWIW, the vast majority of lab diamonds on e-bay are sims.

 

[rockysalamander]

Moissanite is also a trade name as well as a patented product, and not only do people sell counterfeit Moissanite they also sell other forms of silicon carbide as Moissanite, including the rather stupid "black Moissanite," aka polishing tools.

FWIW, the vast majority of lab diamonds on e-bay are sims.

Agreed. I think the simulant/alternative market had undermined confidence in the what they are seeing. You can look up "Russian diamond" and unless you read carefully, you don't know it is a CZ. Diamond Nexus and others hide everything about what they are selling and many a person has bought them at very high price only to find out later they are CZ. Lab diamond, lab created, man-made, simulant, etc. have all gotten confused. With moissanite, I agree that fakes are now emerging (and some real ones are just plain ugly), now that the rough is readily available or at least the chemical formula to grow that rough. I think moissanite will have a similar problem as more and more companies enter the market. I see this on other boards. But, for lab-created diamonds, it's the wild west. When I am asked, I suggest folks stick with one of four sellers that I know to be legit (not that they may not be 100 more). The nice thing of legit lab-grown diamonds is that selecting them is just like a natural diamond using the same knowledge and tools. If I'm being honest, most of those that you can peruse online, have rather steep-deep cuts in the rounds. I have not spent much time looking at other shapes.

But, that was not your question OP. Sorry for the side-shoot.

 

[KKJohnson]

You may want to post a similar request on the WeddingBee - Rings forum. There seems to be a good number who elected for lab-created for mostly ethical reasons and some for cost reasons.

Edited to add. I concur with the challenge being the secondary market and the name "lab created". I think this has been abused by those selling fancy CZs (I'm looking at you Diamond Nexus) and others. So, people are often unclear if they are buying a CZ or diamond. Moissanite has been marked as a simulant and just called moissanite. So, I think consumer confidence is also lacking given the abuse of the word.

My poor DH fell victim to Diamond Nexus with the belief he was buying a lab diamond...it took me two years of telling him no! It is not a diamond at all. He is a penny pincher and went for the best deal possible. Still kinda peeved since he says I okayed a lab diamond, I still don’t think he understands the difference.

 

[iraweissman]

Thank you all for the great ideas so far!

 

[OoohShiny]

Just to quote a post you made in the thread you started in Rockytalk with the same title...

If it helps, I'm not fond of them either and I believe my research will prove a very big point against them.

May I ask what point you are trying to prove against them?

I can't immediately see any negative points against them that relate to the diamond itself (putting to one side any concerns with the 4 Cs, given they also relate to mined stones), only in the perception of said diamonds in the eyes of the buying public.

 

[ChristineRose]

My poor DH fell victim to Diamond Nexus with the belief he was buying a lab diamond...it took me two years of telling him no! It is not a diamond at all. He is a penny pincher and went for the best deal possible. Still kinda peeved since he says I okayed a lab diamond, I still don’t think he understands the difference.

I'm so sorry. Diamond Nexus' CZ aren't even good CZ. They are the kind you buy at Target for $5.00. DN are such scum.

 

[iraweissman]

Just to quote a post you made in the thread you started in Rockytalk with the same title...



May I ask what point you are trying to prove against them?

I can't immediately see any negative points against them that relate to the diamond itself (putting to one side any concerns with the 4 Cs, given they also relate to mined stones), only in the perception of said diamonds in the eyes of the buying public.

I don't want to give away my research. I'll just say it relates to falling prices.

 

[denverappraiser]

How did this get into a discussion of secondary markets?

The question on the table, which is interesting enough on its own, looks to be who has bought what, from whom, and when. I’m suspecting even that will be a little difficult because there are so many complications in terms of mountings, value-added services like setting or shipping and coupons that make it more difficult than you would expect to separate what the stone actually cost. One of the nice things about synthetics is that asking prices are relatively easy to get, far more so than mined stones, but CHANGES in asking prices over time are a bear. There is no database to query. Actual sales data is difficult to get short of a court order but anecdotal data, which is what this is about, is acceptable for most cases.

Ira, I too am curious where you're going with this. Changes over time? Differences between reported transaction prices and observable asking prices? Trends in what's selling well? Brand premiums? Cut premiums (or lack thereof)? Something else entirely?

 

[ChristineRose]

There's been this myth out there for decades that lab diamonds are going to become as cheap as dirt and will somehow change the world. Lab diamonds are not cheap as dirt, unless the dirt is made of kimberlite. Even if the rocks get cheaper to make it's not clear how that will effect the diamond market. People who talk about diamond prices mention things like whether we can convince the Chinese that they all need a diamond engagement ring, that small diamonds are fashionable again, that marquises used to be hot and now they're not, that Ben Affleck gave JLo a pink honker and now everyone thinks they should get one. The trade presents synthetics as fake, and who am I to tell them they're wrong? Diamonds are like Tiffany rings. The knock-off may be identical, but that doesn't mean it's not fake.

My research suggests that by and large diamonds resell for about 10% to 70% of their original retail, depending on how desirable/rare the stone is, both when it was bought and when it was sold, and what sort of markup the vendor charged. This holds for lab stones equally as well as mined. WE BUY GOLD doesn't buy synthetics, but then they pay 10% of retail.

 

[ChristineRose]

If I'm being honest, most of those that you can peruse online, have rather steep-deep cuts in the rounds. I have not spent much time looking at other shapes.

This is unfortunately true. Keep in mind that most diamonds are poorly cut (well, by PS standards) and that the real good ones are like 2% and lab stones are like .5% of all stones sold. Also neither GIA nor AGS will grade them, so that's another barrier.

Good Old Gold has some "estimated cut grade AGS 000" stones though. Like, three of them.

 

[rockysalamander]

This is unfortunately true. Keep in mind that most diamonds are poorly cut (well, by PS standards) and that the real good ones are like 2% and lab stones are like .5% of all stones sold. Also neither GIA nor AGS will grade them, so that's another barrier.

Good Old Gold has some "estimated cut grade AGS 000" stones though. Like, three of them.

That's more than I saw in a sellers online database!

 

[rockysalamander]

I did not personally purchase a lab diamond, but I helped a friend do so. So, here are the answers on the stone I assisted with and helped select.

Date: 8-2017
Price (before taxes): $8910
Color: G, 1.65
Clarity: VS2
Certification: IGI
Cut grade if round: Ideal (using reference to AGS standards)
Shape: Round
Store purchased from: D. NEA online

Note: Buyers specifically did not want a earth mined diamond for ethical reasons (former Peace Corps volunteers) either recently mined or antique. They were also looking at some Canadian options, but that also felt there were unacceptable social costs.

 

[lambskin]

There was a one page article on lab grown diamonds in this weekend's Financial Times newspaper. (British paper)

 

[OoohShiny]

There was a one page article on lab grown diamonds in this weekend's Financial Times newspaper. (British paper)

Looks like this was it (in Podcast format):
https://www.ft.com/content/ded80984-98f6-41ac-b2f9-8c3b34c072f8

And it looks like there was a predictably 'anti' response in a letter, from "Jean-Marc Lieberherr, Chief Executive, Diamond Producers Association, Antwerp, Belgium", basically asserting that:

- natural and manufactured diamonds are 'far from the same thing'
- manufactured diamonds have 'no lasting value' because they are an 'industrial product' that can be churned out en masse
- mined diamonds are natural, finite, 3bn years old, and are therefore 'inherently valuable'
- the two variants 'therefore cater to very different markets and occasions'.

I'm not sure if everyone can read it without a subscription:
ft.com/content/9b0bb07a-be6d-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

Last time I checked, granite used for a kitchen worksurface was natural, finite and something like 3bn years old, but I don't see anyone paying $5k/carat for it. Likewise, plenty of other stones are billions of years old, but they are often much cheaper, even when rarer than diamonds IIRC.

Looks like someone feels threatened, IMHO...

 

[OoohShiny]

Sir,
I would like to offer a different perspective on Henry Sanderson’s Big Read article “Spot the difference” (November 1).

Diamonds and their synthesised counterparts are far from being the same thing. A diamond is a 3bn-year-old natural product, finite and inherently valuable. A synthetic version is an industrial product created in a factory in a matter of weeks with no limit to production and, consequently, no lasting value. Diamonds and synthetics therefore cater to very different markets and occasions.

The key point is that consumers have to be able to make an informed choice. When doing so, it’s important they know that conflict diamonds as depicted in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie are a thing from the past, that diamond mining companies operate under an unprecedented level of environmental scrutiny, and that responsibly sourced diamonds provide livelihood, health and education to about 10m people, mostly in some of the most disadvantaged regions of the world.

 

[ChristineRose]

Yeah, they've been saying this for ages. Physics and chemistry trump everything here. They are the same thing. Plus lab diamonds are the rarities. "No limits to production" except for the lack of factories producing them. If everyone decided to get engaged without a diamond, the value would be anything but lasting.

And conflict diamonds are very much still a thing.

 

[hennielovesdiamonds]

Hi, I wanna know if these lab-grown diamonds are being sold according to carat like the earth diamonds? If so, how much is the price per carat? is it much cheaper or much expensive than moissanite?. Thanks

 

[rockhoundofficiando]

Hi, I wanna know if these lab-grown diamonds are being sold according to carat like the earth diamonds? If so, how much is the price per carat? is it much cheaper or much expensive than moissanite?. Thanks

Yes, lab made/synthetic diamonds are sold by carat weight and specifications just like mined diamonds. Roughly they appear to be about 10% less than their mined counterpart.
As far as comparison to moissanite, that would be comparing apples and oranges. Natural moissanite is a trace, green mineral. It does not exist in nature as a large, clear, sparkly stone. Additives, and processing during manufacturing make moissanite usable as a diamond simulant. (Cz is another man created diamond simulant.) Lab made/synthetic diamonds on the other hand, are exact replicas of mined,(naturally ocurring) diamonds. Thus they are viewed as actual diamonds, and their high price reflects that view.

 

[denverappraiser]

In most sizes and with most stores, synthetic diamonds are quite a bit more expensive than moissanite.