Dog Experts Neutering Question

[Mayk]

We have a new chocolate lab puppy. The breeder had us agree not to neuter until he 18 months to allow for full bone development. Sharing a study in labs this was found to reduce hip dysplasia and knee and elbow issues. We are also sending tHE puppy to a obedience school at 16 weeks and the trainer we are using also echoed it as a good choice. Where we board the cat and now we will also board the dog the owner raises and shows Afghans, she also said good choice.

We made our first trip to the vet and she basically told me the dog was going to have a lot of testosterone habits if I waited past six months marking my house, humping eveything and being very aggressive (he's a lab not a pit). She did everything but tell me I'm an idiot and then really frowned on me sending him away to obedience school. I did this with my last lab. Best money I've ever spent. She was a great dog. So I'm already sold on the training.

I know we have a few expert I'd love to hear your thoughts on neutering.

 

[sonnyjane]

We made our first trip to the vet and she basically told me the dog was going to have a lot of testosterone habits if I waited past six months marking my house, humping eveything and being very aggressive (he's a lab not a pit).

For what it's worth, that pit bull comment is rather offensive to people that own loving, well-behaved pits. Any dog can be good. Any dog can be bad.

 

[kenny]

Isn't 'dog training' as much about training the humans in the dog's pack?

 

[Bonfire]

Congratulations on your new fur baby. He's beautiful!
I agree with the Vet on one thing. We have a male Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. He peed on EVERYTHING in the house. Drapes, bed skirts, furniture, you name it. Once we got him neutered (around 7 or 8 mos) it stopped.
I have a friend who has always had Labs. Each one has been sent away to a special trainer. Well worth it. Very obedient dogs. I don't understand your vet's issue with that. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[azstonie]

Okay. My avatar, Finn, was not neutered until 5 years old---when we got Maggie, my female Westie. He never once peed or marked in the house and that is not hyperbole. We neutered him because of Maggie and also to head off urinary tract cancers/issues.

So the marking issue may be specific to individual dogs or breeds?

Your sweet boy is gorgeous. Do him a solid and buy Dr. Pitcairn's book/s on how to best care/feed your sweetie. You might consider not vaccinating the garbanzos out of him---cancers first problem and allergies right up there too, which your breed is susceptible to (none of the vets where I take Finn vaccinate their own dogs for rabies [the most damaging vaccine] and for parvo and distemper on as-needed badus).

So I digressed, correct re hips and too-early neuter. Congratulations on your lovely, lovelyboy!!

 

[azstonie]

Highly recommend the following materials. I have an internist vet for the Westies, an allergist/dermatologist, and an ortho. I still need these.

 

[azstonie]

More.

 

[azstonie]

I know, I know. But its amazing.

 

[azstonie]

Last one I promise. This book, the vet is fantastic. You may not decide to go holistic BUT he tells you how to be certain of correct diagnosis and treatment, no matter what kind of treatment you may opt for.

 

[AGBF]

Your baby is beautiful. When did he come home?

Deb

 

[azstonie]

Maggie has had both hips replaced; she had severe hip dysplasia at 11 months old. Her vet told us to euthanize her, that hip replacement was not being done for smaller dogs. I refused. I did research. I found Dr. William Liska (who used to be at Gulf Coast Veterinary Clinic in Houston, which he owned, but he sold the practice and is now available for hips and I believe elbows in his own private practice) in Houston, Texas, who is the preeminent ortho surgeon in the US and Europe. He invented the hip prostheses and surgical techniques for hip replacement in small dogs and cats. He is also the premiere hip surgeon for hunting dogs/large dogs. He replaced one hip on Maggie when she was 12 months old and we had the remaining hip done when she was 5 years old.

Point being, MayK, that if your sweet boy ever needs hip replacement, the very best (Dr Liska) costs no more than the merely acceptable

 

[Farleysmom]

We have a 4 year old golden retriever who is still intact. The breeder advised us not to neuter (if that was our choice) until he was two to ensure proper bone development. Neutering too young can negatively affect the dogs natural growth. We have never had a problem with aggression or "marking territory". He is a very calm and well behaved boy.

Before you take any action, please do some reading. There is a lot of great information out there. Neutering too early can affect the hormones in the dog.

Your new puppy and gorgeous. What a sweet face. I just want to give him hugs and kisses.

 

[rainwood]

Your little chunk of chocolate is such a cutie!!

I am not an expert, but I have a female yellow Lab and our friends have a male yellow Lab who is a year older. The breeder required that the male not be neutered until age 2 and their Lab kept trying to mount our spayed female until he was about 13, and physically couldn't do it anymore. And when I say "kept" I mean he wouldn't stop trying unless they were physically separated by distance and people. It could go on for as long as they were around each other and was truly annoying as we kept having to get between them because their dog was relentless and my dog didn't want anything to do with it. We eventually stopped letting them be near each other ever. Another friend had a different large breed and they didn't neuter him until later, and he has a habit of air humping if he gets more than the slightest bit of attention (like if you scratch behind his ears for too long)! So there is that potential downside. I can't speak to the marking of territory or other things, but the humping is a definite possibility.

We went to a puppy class for our Lab (one night every week for 6 weeks), and that was all we needed to have a very well-behaved and sweet puppy and dog. One thing the trainer at the class said was that training was as much to train the owners as the dogs (maybe more so) and you wouldn't get that if the dog went off to training school without you. That might be why the vet was down on it. Labs are very easy to train because they are so food-oriented. They'll do anything for a treat!

 

[Mayk]

We made our first trip to the vet and she basically told me the dog was going to have a lot of testosterone habits if I waited past six months marking my house, humping eveything and being very aggressive (he's a lab not a pit).

For what it's worth, that pit bull comment is rather offensive to people that own loving, well-behaved pits. Any dog can be good. Any dog can be bad.

My sincere apologies... You are correct. My bad.

I have been reading up a storm but I remembered someone has an in tact Newfie who had Challenges and I remember her getting a lot of feed back. I'm always interested in what you all have to say.

Kenny you will be happy to know they train us too.

The puppy is 9 weeks old. He's been here about five days and potty training is running us ragged. We are getting up at night to take him out and praise pees and poos. This too shall pass. This is my second choc lab, my first was a girl and we got her at 18 months. This is my first experience with a very young puppy and a male.

Asztoine thank you! You're awesome. I appreciate all the great reference stuff.

 

[Puppmom]

Not an expert by any means but we waited until 2 to get our Rhodesian ridgeback neutered at our breeders request. Our vet was supportive of the choice for the reasons you mentioned. We had absolutely no issues resulting from it. He was housebroken in a few weeks and he tried humping other dogs at the dog park a few times but they would pretty clearly let him know it wasn't cool. And we would correct it immediately as well. It never became a problem. And he has never been aggressive.

 

[mjr1]

I have had many dogs over the years-and all have gone to obedience school with me (because I couldn't afford the boarding option). I think a well trained dog is worth every penny you spend!!!! That being said, all of my pure bred dogs have come with limited registrations with the stipulation that they must be spayed before 8 months. I agree with everyone who has mentioned the negative behaviors that become a huge problem with late neutering. I also totally understand the theory behind delayed neutering. If it were me, I would neuter before a year trying to get maximum bone and muscle development but limit negative behaviors (marking etc). If the dog showed a strong tendency toward such behaviors I would neuter as early as 7 months. It really is a personal preference. There is data to support both options and I think it just comes down to each dogs personality. Good luck with the handsome lab! My lab (who was spayed at 6 months) passed away last year at 15 years, 3 months. She had a long, healthy, amazing life. I still miss her. She was one of a kind.......

 

[sonnyjane]

As a former animal trainer, I will say that behaviors can be modified whereas serious medical conditions sometimes can't be. If the physical benefits are supported by enough evidence to make it worth the wait, you can cross the behavior bridge if and when you get there.

 

[AGBF]

I have been reading up a storm but I remembered someone has an in tact Newfie who had Challenges and I remember her getting a lot of feed back.

That would be me. The "challenges" were unrelated to later neutering, which is a necessity if you neuter a Giant breed. My last dog was a purebred and AKC registered Lab (although yellow in color) who had been neutered young-before I got him. So I have experienced both intact and neutered males. My intact male is far gentler and easier to manage than my neutered one was! It's just a matter of the breed. A Newf is very docile; that's why the breeder recommended against neutering in our situation where the dog was not going to be able to impregnate any other dog.

I am a huge fan of later neutering now that I have learned something about it. It allows maximum growth, and allows the male dog to grow up knowing he is male, and there is no reason not to wait. A puppy is going to be a puppy with puppy characteristics whether or not he is neutered. If you don't want a puppy, don't get one. Get a dog who has already been housebroken and is no longer eating the furniture. There are beautiful specimens of every breed out there who have gone through the most difficult phases of puppyhood!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

By the way, my intact male has never marked anything in my house. He was not housebroken when we got him from the breeder at 16 months of age. He was housebroken within one day. (Remember: he was not a young puppy.) He absolutely adores going on slow, long walks outside in which he is allowed to stop and pee on every single blade of grass and bush and tree, however!

Some of my best friend's dogs who have visited have peed everywhere in my house. I now know which ones of hers-though I love them all-are not welcome to visit!!! Some of her females mark as well as the males. My females never did that!

Deb

 

[Mayk]

Deb I thought that was you.... I also wondered about the breed too. Newfies really are gentle giants.

We were so fortunate with our first choco. The breeder intended to breed her but decided not too due to some detail she was not happy with in her coat. She had raised the two girls (Thelma & Louise) as pets and they were also crate trained. I actually shopped for an older dog this time too but I popped up on the wait list with a breeder I had heard about and interviewed with. We were not actually on the list for this litter but she had a cancellation. I also very much wanted an English Lab and this breeding the sire and dam were beautiful. He will be a big boy very blocky head and big chest about 85-90 lbs.

Puppy training is hard work as I climb back into bed from the 2:00 potty trip and visit PS.

Sonnyjane thank you...

 

[AGBF]

We have a 4 year old golden retriever who is still intact.

Are you on The Golden Retriever Forum?

 

[Farleysmom]

We have a 4 year old golden retriever who is still intact.

Are you on The Golden Retriever Forum?

Actually, no I'm not but I'll definitely need to look up the site. Thank you.

 

[AGBF]

We have a 4 year old golden retriever who is still intact.

Are you on The Golden Retriever Forum?

Actually, no I'm not but I'll definitely need to look up the site. Thank you.

Its is a lovely, welcoming place. People with other breeds of dogs are welcome there, too...http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/
This is "The Other Pets" area. You can talk about your Newfie, your pet goat (or your shrimp) here...http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/other-pets/

 

[jazzoboe]

I have two golden retrievers, 5 and 3 years old. They are father and son, actually. Both are still intact, and we have never had behavioral issues with either of them. They don't have an aggressive bone in their bodies, they very rarely hump and are easily deterred if they do. The only time one of them has peed in the house in the last 2 years was because he had a UTI. In fact, they barely lift their legs to see outside--most of the time they both squat like girls.

So I'd suggest sticking with the advice you got to wait until the dog is older. If you have a lot of behavior issues, it might be time to look at your options, but I wouldn't consider neutering as the first or only option.

 

[Rockinruby]

Some vets tend to think there may be accidental breedings so they will give you the marking/humping/aggression info to encourage you to go ahead and fix your dog. In many cases they have good cause to give people that info.

However, you have a well bred dog who has been socialized so far plus he will have consistent training. Also, he will need to stay intact if the breeder may want to breed him at some point.

I've become a fan of late neutering for health reasons. I have an intact male and he doesn't hike in our home. He is super sweet with other dogs and volunteers with kids too. I think consistent training makes a big difference. I keep him out in various training classes year round. It's a fun bonding time for us too!

Congratulations on your puppy! He's is truly a gorgeous boy! I think you are going to have a lot of wonderful times with him!

 

[Mayk]

Some vets tend to think there may be accidental breedings so they will give you the marking/humping/aggression info to encourage you to go ahead and fix your dog. In many cases they have good cause to give people that info.

However, you have a well bred dog who has been socialized so far plus he will have consistent training. Also, he will need to stay intact if the breeder may want to breed him at some point.

I've become a fan of late neutering for health reasons. I have an intact male and he doesn't hike in our home. He is super sweet with other dogs and volunteers with kids too. I think consistent training makes a big difference. I keep him out in various training classes year round. It's a fun bonding time for us too!

Congratulations on your puppy! He's is truly a gorgeous boy! I think you are going to have a lot of wonderful times with him!

Thank you! This makes total sense. A friend mentioned the vet could be involved with the humane society which is all about fixing. I'm glad to see people with pets agree it's good to wait. And pet owners who are living with their intact males. I don't intend to breed but did tell the breeder if she wanted one sample before he was fixed I was ok with that. He's an "in line" breeding. For the breeder it was the dream match but she had kept two from her previous litter and couldn't keep anymore. She has 7 labs.

A picture below of him and his favorite toy. Picks one up on every walk and brings it home.

 

[House Cat]

My 10 pound female chihuahua mix was fixed at a very young age and she humps my 50 pound female border collie mix all of the time!!


Edit: Mayk, your puppy is too adorable!!

 

[Mayk]

My 10 pound female chihuahua mix was fixed at a very young age and she humps my 50 pound female border collie mix all of the time!!

Oh my!

 

[missy]

Ooh what a sweet baby!!!!
Congratulations on your adorable new family member MayK. He is beautiful!!!

 

[AGBF]

My 10 pound female chihuahua mix was fixed at a very young age and she humps my 50 pound female border collie mix all of the time!!

My female Golden was also a humper. She and my neutered yellow Lab. My intact Newfie never humped any dog, the air, any object, or anyone's leg in his entire life. My vet said that he would now be unable to mate naturally and we could only do artificial insemination if we ever wanted to breed him (which, of course, we do not) because he is too old to learn how to do it! My poor baby! He gets erections. (Sorry if this is too much doggy information.) He just gets them when he is petted and cuddled. He doesn't ever try to take it to another stage!My Golden humped the white fluffy bathrobe we put in the kitchen with her when she was a tiny puppy. We thought she would miss her mother less if she has something warm and soft with which to sleep. Instead she humped it!!! And that was the story of her life. And, yes, she was spayed (although not when she was six weeks old)!

AGBF