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Dog dies on United Flight

tradergirl I can't even imagine the stories you must have in your mind and heart. The things you must have seen or heard. :blackeye:

Even rescues are not always what they present themselves to be. :blackeye: Stories of abuse and neglect. Some present one face to the public and what goes on behind the scenes is a different story.

Like WeeOui said, the stuff of nightmares.
 
CJ, I’m with you. I would have been asking the other flight attendants if it was ok to put the dog up there...and my husband would have been freaking out the whole time telling me to mind my own business and that the flight attendants must know what they are doing. We also know that a bystander effect happens when these things go down (no one knows what to do, everyone looks to everyone else to see if they are going to do something, and when no one does, people tell themselves that they must be over-reacting because no one else is getting involved, and everyone ends up feeling awful but no one steps in). And it’s easy not to get bullied when you have status and resources. But when you’re scared and don’t know what to do, it’s another thing.
 
Actually, my personal experiences are not too bad. FBRN is a very legitimate and good rescue organization. But anyone can make a mistake.
 
cmd2014 said:
CJ, I’m with you. I would have been asking the other flight attendants if it was ok to put the dog up there...and my husband would have been freaking out the whole time telling me to mind my own business and that the flight attendants must know what they are doing. We also know that a bystander effect happens when these things go down (no one knows what to do, everyone looks to everyone else to see if they are going to do something, and when no one does, people tell themselves that they must be over-reacting because no one else is getting involved, and everyone ends up feeling awful but no one steps in). And it’s easy not to get bullied when you have status and resources. But when you’re scared and don’t know what to do, it’s another thing.
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I so often fall into the "they must know what they're doing" thinking.

I totally get it and I respect psychology and behavioral science and things like that.

For me, something happens, something gets triggered when it comes to animals where something takes over and all I care about is making sure the animal is safe at the expense of how I may be coming off looking a little nuts. :/

And it's especially hard when you feel your partner is one of the people thinking you're coming off a little crazy...

But I really truly believe that had I been on that plane, I would have said something even if nobody else did.

I wish one person would have found the courage. :blackeye:
 
This tragedy reveals a very disturbing and bizarre component of human behavior and it really scares me. I don't know why someone didn't speak up. I don't know whether it's fear of authority, apathy, not caring, not wanting to get involved, or not wanting to stand out. There are numerous examples of this tendency in psychological experiments and real life. :(2 I just read where one passenger assumed since the flight attendant put the bag in the compartment that it must have been ok to do so. :cry2: This passenger tried looking up correct protocol for pets on a plane on her phone but ran out of time. She did not speak up.

I am NOT defending or making excuses for anybody. I am horrified that nobody spoke up. I am at a loss as to understanding how something like this could happen. My heart breaks for that poor puppy. I'm not going to post any more because I don't want to upset people any more than they are but I too am very distraught over this.
 
So bizarre, and scary...and sad...:blackeye:

Maybe we can all use this awareness in case we ever encounter something that makes uncomfortable and we try to quiet the voice telling us to say something...we can just take a deep breath and be willing to be the one who speaks up...even if everyone else thinks we're crazy or doesn't have our backs.
 
CJ2008 said:
So bizarre, and scary...and sad...:blackeye:

Maybe we can all use this awareness in case we ever encounter something that makes uncomfortable and we try to quiet the voice telling us to say something...we can just take a deep breath and be willing to be the one who speaks up...even if everyone else thinks we're crazy or doesn't have our backs.
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CJ I keep telling myself to stop reading and posting because I’m so heartbroken and beside myself about this but I feel I must make one last comment here. Personally I didn’t need this “learning” experience to know someone should have spoken up about this. It’s not ok. I don’t care the excuse because an animal was being tortured and murdered in front of everyone and I don’t believe no one knew what was happening. Are they all morons??? I’m sorry I’m so angry but I won’t apologize for saying they were either stupid or uncaring or both.

Too scared of “authority” aka the flight crew to speak up???? When a living being was being tortured and murdered? No no no. Not ok. And unconscionable. Yeah you and I and Junie (and everyone posting here no doubt) would have spoken up of that I have no doubt. What the heck was wrong with every single person who was aware of what was happening on that flight? I have no hope for humankind. Humans generally SUCK.
 
missy said:
CJ I keep telling myself to stop reading and posting because I’m so heartbroken and beside myself about this but I feel I must make one last comment here. Personally I didn’t need this “learning” experience to know someone should have spoken up about this. It’s not ok. I don’t care the excuse because an animal was being tortured and murdered in front of everyone and I don’t believe no one knew what was happening. Are they all morons??? I’m sorry I’m so angry but I won’t apologize for saying they were either stupid or uncaring or both.

Too scared of “authority” aka the flight crew to speak up???? When a living being was being tortured and murdered? No no no. Not ok. And unconscionable. Yeah you and I and Junie (and everyone posting here no doubt) would have spoken up of that I have no doubt. What the heck was wrong with every single person who was aware of what was happening on that flight? I have no hope for humankind. Humans generally SUCK.
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Missy I keep telling myself the same thing and find myself still posting for the very same reasons.

I agree with you in the sense that I could not have stood by knowing a dog was up there. I just couldn't.

I also agree with you that for some, it was they didn't care, for others, afraid to speak up, for others, not wanting to get involved, and countless other reasons.

For me, none of these are EXCUSES - they are potential reasons or explanations but none - NONE excuse not speaking up.
 
I read the article about it today and kept thinking WTF, I would have honestly said to the flight attendant if I can't take the puppy or my pet with me as proper luggage and put at my feet then I'm getting off the plane. That would have created a heap of drama for everyone, and perhaps the decision of the hostess could have been challenged.

I can't blame the owner or the other passengers, most people would have no clue that a dog, child or whatever should NEVER have been put up there. The staff on the plane however should know never to do that. It seems like some type of breakdown in communication that the owner didn't communicate better there was a puppy in there and understand what to do and that the hostess is claiming she didn't see the dog in there. And what normal person wouldn't have checked to see if the dog was O.K after you take off, again was the owner frightened to get out of their seat did she not understand, did she think that the hostess meant everything would be O.K? Something doesn't seem right here.

In Australia animals are only allowed to travel underneath in proper airline approved crates as checked in luggage. And planes that are allowed to carry animals have to have temperature gauges down there monitoring that the temperatures don't go above and below a certain amount.
 
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This story is so heartbreaking. What on earth would make a flight attendant think that was a good option? I can't even imagine the rational that could go into that decision. I hope that all the media attention and focus insures that this never happens again and no crew is allowed to put a dog or any other animal in an overhead bin. It seems like a heartless act.
 
I think it's the opposite, actually...most people would definitely have a clue that it's kind of weird at best top put a dog in a sealed compartment where very little air, if any, gets in...

By weird meaning that most people would question it.

And at least some percentage would have known for sure that it could not possibly been a good idea.
 
CJ2008 said:
I think it's the opposite, actually...most people would have definitely have a clue that it's kind of weird at best top put a dog in a sealed compartment where very little air, if any, gets in...

By weird meaning that most people would question it.

And at least some percentage would have known for sure that it could not possibly been a good idea.
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Yes people with brains like yours and mine that think about it would, I'm not sure about everyone else. If the woman who owned the dog didn't speak English and had rarely been on planes before, I'm not so sure if they would have a clue. Having said that if you get a new a puppy or kitten or any animal really I agree that you would check it unless for some reason you thought you could not get out of your seat....
 
Oh absolutely, arkie, maybe if she had never been on a plane before we could argue that maybe she thought there was air in there. Maybe she thought dogs sometimes go in there and it's OK.

What about everyone ELSE on the flight.

That's why I'm saying it's not a single person.

It's not even just the flight attendant. Even though she should be MOST culpable as she is the professional who is supposed to know safety and protocol. And I'd argue she should know if the bins are airtight (I think someone mentioned that) - meaning zero airflow.

It's everyone.

Poor poor puppy. My heart breaks.
 
And like you just said - who doesn't think to check on a live animal in an enclosed space. One who also was at times crying.

Incredibly sad.
 
This is so horrible and makes me so sad that no one said anything on a 4 hour flight. :angryfire: I could not have kept my mouth shut had I been sitting near these people.
 
Horrible, redwood.
 
CJ2008 said:
Oh absolutely, arkie, maybe if she had never been on a plane before we could argue that maybe she thought there was air in there. Maybe she thought dogs sometimes go in there and it's OK.

What about everyone ELSE on the flight.

That's why I'm saying it's not a single person.

It's not even just the flight attending.

It's everyone.
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If the flight attendant really didn't see the puppy as she is claiming then it's possible no one saw it. If other people saw it and didn't say anything then yes that is totally weird, I would have said WTF, and asked one of the hostesses what they were doing, but I've been on a lot of planes. Some of those little trendy looking small dog/pet carriers actually have a fold over flap or piece of fabric that covers the front and you can't see that well through the mesh. I'd like to give everyone the doubt and think no one saw it.

I've actually been sitting here wondering how no one would have heard it crying. If a puppy or dog is running out of air I'd guess it would have yapped, yelped, and made noises even over the sounds of the plane taking off, so unless the animal was drugged I can't understand why someone didn't hear it, especially the owner, who I assume was sitting underneath it.
 
My DH said people heard it crying...
 
And still...

I just go back to the owners then.

How do you not check on your live animal pet in 3 hours.

How do you not check it.

Turbulence or not.

And that's if I believe NOBODY saw it, nobody heard it, nobody saw the bag move, indicating a live animal.
 
CJ2008 said:
My DH said people heard it crying...
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If that is the case, I can't understand why a) no one said anything or b) how the flight attendant claimed to not know it was there when people could have told her about it.

Some people should never be allowed to have pets, or children either.
 
Like I said, I'm so angry I even blame the little girl, which I know is just the anger. She's a little girl who like the dog is relying on the adults to know what they're doing.
 
I don't know arkie...it's incomprehensible, if people did indeed hear it crying and / or knew it was up there.
 
CJ2008 said:
I don't know arkie...it's incomprehensible, if people did indeed hear it crying and / or knew it was up there.
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I think it's human nature for some people to be A-holes and just not want to get involved. Last year my husband stopped to help a little old lady outside some shops who had clearly fallen and split her head open. Blood everywhere, he stopped helped her, phoned an ambulance, got staff from inside the shops to help. Now on the security cameras after the event some of the shop owners rang and thanked my husband because when they went back and looked at the video footage 4 or 5 people walked passed, walked over the same little old lady lying on the ground bleeding, clearly in distress and didn't even bother to stop to ask or see if she was O.K.

So possibly it's the same with the dog. No one's responsibility people don't want to get involved. We humans can be self absorbed A-holes and there is really is no excuse for that.
 
arkieb1 said:
I think it's human nature for some people to be A-holes and just not want to get involved. Last year my husband stopped to help a little old lady outside some shops who had clearly fallen and split her head open. Blood everywhere, he stopped helped her, phoned an ambulance, got staff from inside the shops to help. Now on the security cameras after the event some of the shop owners rang and thanked my husband because when they went back and looked at the video footage 4 or 5 people walked passed, walked over the same little old lady lying in the ground bleeding and didn't even bother to stop to ask or see if she was O.K.

So possibly it's the same with the dog. No one's responsibility people don't want to get involved. We humans can be self absorbed A-holes and there is really is no excuse for that.
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This is horrifying. Thank goodness for your husband. WTF is wrong with people? I am the a-hole who can never keep my mouth shut when I see wrong doing.
 
Hi,

So heartbreakig for sure. My understanding is that the animal was in a proper carrier, but it would not fit under the seat at take-off. So, if this is a proper animal carrier, how, along with being told that there was a dog in there, could the flight attendent claim she didn't know. I don't believe her.
The little girl did ask several times if she could see the dog. She was told there was too much turbulance. As to, the passengers, I can't blame them. I would never have thought there was no air up there. I would have accepted the attendants decision, fully believing she knew what she was doing.

In this house we have have had such a horrific experience with two pets treatment. My son spent a year in court, and suffered such mental anquish over a loss that was un-necessary. He had several sympathic judges, who told him that pets are property, and actually said they wished they could help him more, but they could not. CJ, my son, who is an old man himself, almost had a breakdown over the loss of two cats. I don't want anymore pets. We still have one.

So sorry for all the pain expressed here today. Much bad on the flight attendent.

Annette






a
 
Every aspect of this story is horrible. I cannot get over the fact that no one thru a fit and stopped it from happening. I find it hard to believe that no one had the common sense to do what was right and help the poor dog. I would have asked to speak to the pilot if the flight attendant would not listen. The flight attendants should have asked the person sitting in the bulk head to change seats with this woman so the dog wouldn’t be near the aisle and have plenty of room to be comfortable. Its hard to fathom no one spoke up LOUDLY and prevented it from happening. I will never fly United again.

There are days I feel all commmon sense has gone out the window.
 
arkieb1 said:
I think it's human nature for some people to be A-holes and just not want to get involved. Last year my husband stopped to help a little old lady outside some shops who had clearly fallen and split her head open. Blood everywhere, he stopped helped her, phoned an ambulance, got staff from inside the shops to help. Now on the security cameras after the event some of the shop owners rang and thanked my husband because when they went back and looked at the video footage 4 or 5 people walked passed, walked over the same little old lady lying on the ground bleeding, clearly in distress and didn't even bother to stop to ask or see if she was O.K.

So possibly it's the same with the dog. No one's responsibility people don't want to get involved. We humans can be self absorbed A-holes and there is really is no excuse for that.
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You have a wonderful husband!!!
 
@tradergirl I want to thank you for the volunteering you've done with FBRN. They really are a wonderful rescue and they do excellent work on behalf of the Frenchies in their care. One of our two Frenchies is a rescue (FBSCR) and we are so blessed to have been approved to adopt him!

Both of our Frenchies are brindle boys, just like this poor lil pup. When I read this article, my heart broke.

I don't know what's wrong with United, but they need to get their sh!t together! We flew Delta from Baltimore to Detroit to Marquette and back all in the same day when we got our first Frenchie. The Delta staff was amazing and they couldn't have been more helpful! Our flight attendant kept checking to make sure we were OK and asking if "the baby" needed anything! LOL! It was a great experience and I'll fly Delta every chance I get from now on. I think United could seriously take some lessons from them!

And FWIW, they would've had to drag me off that plane if I'd been told to put my dog in an overhead bin. SMH. :angryfire:
 
I’ve been in aviation (cabin safety) for 20 years and as an animal lover was heartbroken by this entirely preventable death. In aviation training, we spend a lot of time discussing methods to break what is known as the error chain in a required course called Crew Resource Management. The course is aimed at threat and error management as it relates to the aircraft’s state of safety and has a heavy focus on effective communication. These communication skills are highly transferable to day-to-day “normal” flights in dealing with the travelling public. Tragically, the cabin crew member in this scenario failed on a couple levels (i.e., basic communication, regulatory interpretation) which had a fatal consequence for an innocent life. I can guarantee that many operators will be using this horrible incident to reinforce the importance of following standard operating procedures for the carriage of pets in the cabin.

Given the profound sadness shared on this thread, I want to share a story that will hopefully lift spirits a wee bit. About 10 years ago, I was operating a cross-country domestic flight as the In-charge Flight Attendant. We were on a new-to-us leased aircraft that had an entertainment system which used up some of the space under the seats (the rest of our fleet did not have this). A passenger boarded with a Jack Russell puppy in a soft side carrier. It did not fit under any of the seats. I consulted with the Captain, and after checking on how much inconvenience would be caused to the passenger to wait for the next flight, he offered to stow the carrier in the flight deck for take-off and landing. (The flight deck had a large side-facing closet - open air, with strapping - so we could easily and properly secure the carrier in that spot.) Problem solved – passenger happy, crew happy. Shortly after takeoff, I got a call from the flight deck to come up front but be careful opening the door. The had pup silently chewed his way out of his carrier and introduced himself to the pilots! HI GUYS! Since he destroyed the mesh on one side, I got his leash from his owner, and the pilots allowed him to chill out on the flight deck jumpseat while we figured out how to fix his carrier for landing. Cutest thing ever: a puppy napping at 39,000 feet in a sunbeam, just chilling with the pilots. He may have gotten a nibble or two from their crew sandwiches… We cobbled the carrier back for landing, and it held. Pretty satisfying to see the pup’s Mom’s gratitude to the pilots.
 
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