Does this stone have a large window?

[lucyc]

Agreed, while you can find crystal clear rubies, a touch of silk is considered ideal. Meanwhile, spinel is ideal when crystal clear (and more often crystal clear than ruby).

OP did look at some spinels before, I even linked a potential candidate, so perhaps she made up her mind on ruby.

With a 30k budget, if I had the time I would probably take a trip to Bangkok and see rubies and spinels for myself. But I live closer to Bangkok than OP might.

I did consider a spinel - I would definitely save a lot of money, but it’s a ruby I really want. I’m based in the UK so Bangkok is a bit far but I do think it makes sense to go see them in person. So far I haven’t seen anything that is bright red that holds its colour well in low lighting. Are the colour of Burma rubies that much better than Mozambique rubies?

 

[lucyc]

Agreed, while you can find crystal clear rubies, a touch of silk is considered ideal. Meanwhile, spinel is ideal when crystal clear (and more often crystal clear than ruby).

OP did consider some spinels before and I think I linked a potential candidate, so perhaps she made up her mind on ruby. It is more well known, more prestigious, etc. Personal preference and all that.

With a 30k budget, if I had the time I would probably take a trip to Bangkok and see rubies and spinels for myself. But I live closer to Bangkok than OP might.

edit-Can't help myself - spinel eye candy from a recent auction and a 30ct cushion cut from Yavorskyy's IG

Those earrings are stunning!

 

[toomuchB]

I did consider a spinel - I would definitely save a lot of money, but it’s a ruby I really want. I’m based in the UK so Bangkok is a bit far but I do think it makes sense to go see them in person. So far I haven’t seen anything that is bright red that holds its colour well in low lighting.

It is understandable that rubies have a unique allure to you.

I am not knowledgeable enough to answer all your questions accurately so hopefully others chime in, like @VividRed

What that said, my understanding, which may not be completely accurate:
Burma is the historical and more prestigious origin and therefore has more demand and they cost more, particularly for red untreated examples. Another factor is that Burmese rubies have lower iron content generally, and exhibit fluorescence. This makes them pop when UV is present (e.g. from the sun).
However, some Mozambique stones or other origins (Tanzania I believe) can have strong fluorescence as well.
If you want to check out high end rubies and maybe some spinels in person in the UK, Berganza has some amazing stock - check their site. Mostly Burmese rubies it seems, and not budget friendly. But its less of a schlep than going to Bangkok if your primary goal is to assess with your own eyes. Maybe others can suggest more UK stores.

 

[Avondale]

Are the colour of Burma rubies that much better than Mozambique rubies?

It's the fluorescence. The stronger the fluorescence, the more likely it is the stone will retain colour in lower light. Now, keep in mind most corundum is moody and fickle, and will change with the light, but rubies in particular strongly agree with indoor warm light.

Burmese rubies are in general more likely to have higher chromium, lower iron content, which allows the fluorescence to shine through. With rubies from Africa that's more rare, but definitely not impossible or unheard of.

 

[lucyc]

It's the fluorescence. The stronger the fluorescence, the more likely it is the stone will retain colour in lower light. Now, keep in mind most corundum is moody and fickle, and will change with the light, but rubies in particular strongly agree with indoor warm light.

Burmese rubies are in general more likely to have higher chromium, lower iron content, which allows the fluorescence to shine through. With rubies from Africa that's more rare, but definitely not impossible or unheard of.

I need to ask for stones with fluorescence then, most of what I have been shown doesn’t have fluorescence. This is a 2.2 carat that I saw in person, it had an asking price of 35k USD. When there is light I see bright flashes of red, but when it’s not in direct light it looks brown. Is this how a ruby is supposed to perform or am I looking at bad stones?

https://imgur.com/a/zPmDV47

 

[Avondale]

I don't think you're looking at bad stones. It's just that the stones you've been seeing aren't quite what you're looking for. And what you're looking for falls in the "exceptional" category where you could spend years looking and still not find it.

Now, I only have one ruby, but managed to amass 5 sapphires in search of my holy grail. Not one of these stones holds its colour consistently through all different lights. The most you can hope for is for the stone to have attractive colours in these different lights, but you cannot expect the colour to remain the same.

If you deprive a ruby of light, it will get darker. It's the natural order of things. What you have to ask is whether the darker colour is attractive to your eyes. Most often, depending on the undertone, it will veer either towards purple or brown. The question is, just how much purple or brown will be there, compared to the dark (at this point) red. If you don't like how it looks, just move on, it's not the stone for you.

This is where fluorescence comes in. It helps negate this darkening towards brown or purple, because the material is better able to utilise the full spectrum of light that's coming its way. I have a favourite example of fluorescence captured on video. In all honestly, it's something that needs to be seen, fluorescence can't be understood or appreciated just through verbal descriptions.

/PS keeps breaking my link, so you'll have to copy-paste it/
https://imgur.com/a/1-2-ruby-sUBQyDs

Another thing that helps a stone maintain good colour in low light is silk. This video is from Inken, and again a wonderful visual example:

The third thing that can help a ruby's light performance is cutting. The right, well executed cut can help immensely with light return. Here's a great example from a fellow PSer:

Post in thread 'Burmese ruby opinions'

Dec 13, 2024

Maninge Nice rubies tend to be the ones that more closely resemble Burmese... you can find medium tone, vivid saturation, and stronger fluorescence. The cool thing is they also tend to be a truer red than Burmese (which can veer pink). Muglotto tend to look more like Thai rubies... darker tone caused by a higher iron content, which in turn quenches the fluorescence.

I absolutely love my (Heated) Mugloto ruby because it is so clean, crisp, brilliant and the color is such a pure, intense red. The rough from Mugloto tends to be deeper and blockier, so it allows for much more...

• Dr_Diesel

• 
• 

 

[lucyc]

I don't think you're looking at bad stones. It's just that the stones you've been seeing aren't quite what you're looking for. And what you're looking for falls in the "exceptional" category where you could spend years looking and still not find it.

Now, I only have one ruby, but managed to amass 5 sapphires in search of my holy grail. Not one of these stones holds its colour consistently through all different lights. The most you can hope for is for the stone to have attractive colours in these different lights, but you cannot expect the colour to remain the same.

If you deprive a ruby of light, it will get darker. It's the natural order of things. What you have to ask is whether the darker colour is attractive to your eyes. Most often, depending on the undertone, it will veer either towards purple or brown. The question is, just how much purple or brown will be there, compared to the dark (at this point) red. If you don't like how it looks, just move on, it's not the stone for you.

This is where fluorescence comes in. It helps negate this darkening towards brown or purple, because the material is better able to utilise the full spectrum of light that's coming its way. I have a favourite example of fluorescence captured on video. In all honestly, it's something that needs to be seen, fluorescence can't be understood or appreciated just through verbal descriptions.

/PS keeps breaking my link, so you'll have to copy-paste it/
https://imgur.com/a/1-2-ruby-sUBQyDs

Another thing that helps a stone maintain good colour in low light is silk. This video is from Inken, and again a wonderful visual example:

The third thing that can help a ruby's light performance is cutting. The right, well executed cut can help immensely with light return. Here's a great example from a fellow PSer:

Post in thread 'Burmese ruby opinions'

Dec 13, 2024

Maninge Nice rubies tend to be the ones that more closely resemble Burmese... you can find medium tone, vivid saturation, and stronger fluorescence. The cool thing is they also tend to be a truer red than Burmese (which can veer pink). Muglotto tend to look more like Thai rubies... darker tone caused by a higher iron content, which in turn quenches the fluorescence.

I absolutely love my (Heated) Mugloto ruby because it is so clean, crisp, brilliant and the color is such a pure, intense red. The rough from Mugloto tends to be deeper and blockier, so it allows for much more...

• Dr_Diesel

• 
• 

Wow, I love how that ruby in the ring looks - even in low lighting it’s so red!

 

[lucyc]

Wow, I love how that ruby in the ring looks - even in low lighting it’s so red!

Sorry for all the questions - but does silk help to disguise windows? I saw a ruby with a really nice colour awhile ago, it didn’t look particularly silky to the naked eye but when they sent over the tweezer video I could see it wasn’t crystalline. The ruby was really flat - depth of 54%, but I didn’t notice any dullness in the centre. I disregarded it as it as it was so flat and not completely crystal but the colour was definitely nicer than most of the other ones I’ve seen and it had fluorescence.

 

[VividRed]

I don't think you're looking at bad stones. It's just that the stones you've been seeing aren't quite what you're looking for. And what you're looking for falls in the "exceptional" category where you could spend years looking and still not find it.

Now, I only have one ruby, but managed to amass 5 sapphires in search of my holy grail. Not one of these stones holds its colour consistently through all different lights. The most you can hope for is for the stone to have attractive colours in these different lights, but you cannot expect the colour to remain the same.

If you deprive a ruby of light, it will get darker. It's the natural order of things. What you have to ask is whether the darker colour is attractive to your eyes. Most often, depending on the undertone, it will veer either towards purple or brown. The question is, just how much purple or brown will be there, compared to the dark (at this point) red. If you don't like how it looks, just move on, it's not the stone for you.

This is where fluorescence comes in. It helps negate this darkening towards brown or purple, because the material is better able to utilise the full spectrum of light that's coming its way. I have a favourite example of fluorescence captured on video. In all honestly, it's something that needs to be seen, fluorescence can't be understood or appreciated just through verbal descriptions.

/PS keeps breaking my link, so you'll have to copy-paste it/
https://imgur.com/a/1-2-ruby-sUBQyDs

Another thing that helps a stone maintain good colour in low light is silk. This video is from Inken, and again a wonderful visual example:

The third thing that can help a ruby's light performance is cutting. The right, well executed cut can help immensely with light return. Here's a great example from a fellow PSer:

Post in thread 'Burmese ruby opinions'

Dec 13, 2024

Maninge Nice rubies tend to be the ones that more closely resemble Burmese... you can find medium tone, vivid saturation, and stronger fluorescence. The cool thing is they also tend to be a truer red than Burmese (which can veer pink). Muglotto tend to look more like Thai rubies... darker tone caused by a higher iron content, which in turn quenches the fluorescence.

I absolutely love my (Heated) Mugloto ruby because it is so clean, crisp, brilliant and the color is such a pure, intense red. The rough from Mugloto tends to be deeper and blockier, so it allows for much more...

• Dr_Diesel

• 
• 

Very well written, @Avondale!

 

[Avondale]

does silk help to disguise windows?

Yes, it does! With a crystalline stone and a window, the light passes straight through the material and exits from the pavilion, thus the centre looks desaturated. Silk, however, breaks the light's travel path and scatters the light inside. You still don't see facet reflections and brilliance, but the window is also generally less noticeable, unless you place the stone on a dark contrasting background.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I don't think you're looking at bad stones. It's just that the stones you've been seeing aren't quite what you're looking for. And what you're looking for falls in the "exceptional" category where you could spend years looking and still not find it.

Now, I only have one ruby, but managed to amass 5 sapphires in search of my holy grail. Not one of these stones holds its colour consistently through all different lights. The most you can hope for is for the stone to have attractive colours in these different lights, but you cannot expect the colour to remain the same.

If you deprive a ruby of light, it will get darker. It's the natural order of things. What you have to ask is whether the darker colour is attractive to your eyes. Most often, depending on the undertone, it will veer either towards purple or brown. The question is, just how much purple or brown will be there, compared to the dark (at this point) red. If you don't like how it looks, just move on, it's not the stone for you.

This is where fluorescence comes in. It helps negate this darkening towards brown or purple, because the material is better able to utilise the full spectrum of light that's coming its way. I have a favourite example of fluorescence captured on video. In all honestly, it's something that needs to be seen, fluorescence can't be understood or appreciated just through verbal descriptions.

/PS keeps breaking my link, so you'll have to copy-paste it/
https://imgur.com/a/1-2-ruby-sUBQyDs

Another thing that helps a stone maintain good colour in low light is silk. This video is from Inken, and again a wonderful visual example:

The third thing that can help a ruby's light performance is cutting. The right, well executed cut can help immensely with light return. Here's a great example from a fellow PSer:

Post in thread 'Burmese ruby opinions'

Dec 13, 2024

Maninge Nice rubies tend to be the ones that more closely resemble Burmese... you can find medium tone, vivid saturation, and stronger fluorescence. The cool thing is they also tend to be a truer red than Burmese (which can veer pink). Muglotto tend to look more like Thai rubies... darker tone caused by a higher iron content, which in turn quenches the fluorescence.

I absolutely love my (Heated) Mugloto ruby because it is so clean, crisp, brilliant and the color is such a pure, intense red. The rough from Mugloto tends to be deeper and blockier, so it allows for much more...

• Dr_Diesel

• 
• 

This is such a fantastic comment... I wish we could pin it!

 

[Rfisher]

This photo and ones like it, is what lives in my mind when someone asks if a various category is better than another, and where their personal tastes may lay in what to look for that matches to their minds eye, in their search. And the different lightings to the same stones.

Realised that it’s July rubies month.

Was comparing how my rubies look under different lighting (and fluorescence strength). Unheated rubies from Myanmar, Mozambique and Tanzania ranging from purplish-red to vivid-red.

 

[Autumn in New England]

This photo and ones like it, is what lives in my mind when someone asks if a various category is better than another, and where their personal tastes may lay in what to look for that matches to their minds eye, in their search. And the different lightings to the same stones.

I really miss @icy_jade's contributions!

 

[toomuchB]

OP, here is a ruby specialist vendor I came across who may be worth contacting. Unfortunately all their photos are very advert friendly/studio shots so I cannot judge their inventory. They claim to sell the top quality of production (but I guess they all say so).

https://www.veerasakgems.com/our-collections/ruby/

I think they may be legit because:
-They partnered up with Gubelin for an educational video (and maybe did more but thats all I could find)
-in business since '82
-attend shows
-part of the international colored gemstone association (ICA)
-Have an address in Bangkok. Bangkok based sellers will likely be less expensive than a concierge, but may come with other drawbacks (less options on payment methods, difficult or no returns, etc).

 

[lucyc]

OP, here is a ruby specialist vendor I came across who may be worth contacting. Unfortunately all their photos are very advert friendly/studio shots so I cannot judge their inventory. They claim to sell the top quality of production (but I guess they all say so).

https://www.veerasakgems.com/our-collections/ruby/

I think they may be legit because:
-They partnered up with Gubelin for an educational video (and maybe did more but thats all I could find)
-in business since '82
-attend shows
-part of the international colored gemstone association (ICA)
-Have an address in Bangkok. Bangkok based sellers will likely be less expensive than a concierge, but may come with other drawbacks (less options on payment methods, difficult or no returns, etc).

Thank you, I’ll take a look

 

[lucyc]

How obvious do you think the silk across the centre will be in real life on this ruby? Looking at the video it looks super obvious but the vendor is saying to the naked eye it's hardly noticeable.

https://imgur.com/a/Xhmi9cq

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

You’ll see it! I have a big sapphire that has a similar inclusion and it goes both ways. I can absolutely avoid it if I want to but I can also hold the ring at certain angles and it’s very prominently there at those angles.

 

[Autumn in New England]

How obvious do you think the silk across the centre will be in real life on this ruby? Looking at the video it looks super obvious but the vendor is saying to the naked eye it's hardly noticeable.

https://imgur.com/a/Xhmi9cq

The overall silk isn't bad at all. But that one bundle of rutile is quite prominent. I agree with @mellowyellowgirl... not only will it be eye visible, it will jump out at you at certain angles because of the "iridescence." If you want a clean ruby, I would avoid this one.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

The overall silk isn't bad at all. But that one bundle of rutile is quite prominent. I agree with @mellowyellowgirl... not only will it be eye visible, it will jump out at you at certain angles because of the "iridescence." If you want a clean ruby, I would avoid this one.

Bulbasaur is the one with the bundle of rutile. I don’t mind it at all but Bulbasaur is not my “it” stone (I love him but he’s a jolly giant, not my holy grail of blue sapphires) so I would absolutely avoid it OP if you’re looking for “the one.”

 

[toomuchB]

I have a tourmaline with a tiny veil, much smaller than that silk cluster, I can't even get it on camera. I'd easily consider it eye clean, and if that was the level of inclusion in the above stone it wouldn't bother me.
Only at certain angles, I can see a small white line, particularly because I know it's there.
But this effect would be much more prominent imo in that stone, its thicker and the silk has a texture difference which the eye picks up more than a thin white line.

edit - OK I managed to photograph the veil. It is the line across the green-blue intersection in the first photo. Second photo is from a bit further away. At the right angle, even at a distance and because I know its there, I can spot the tiny white line. If it was the size/texture of that silk line I think it would be too obvious... but I'm just extrapolating, no expert.

https://imgur.com/a/vSvNfvd

 

[lucyc]

Does anyone know what is going on in the centre of this stone? Is the white cloudiness some sort of inclusion? The centre of the stone looks a bit dull even though this stone seems to have a decent amount of depth.

This particular ruby also looks a bit orange to me even though it’s a Mozambique ruby with medium to strong fluorescence - usually the ones with fluorescence look a bit pink/purple so I’m not sure if the photos depict the true colour of the stone.

https://imgur.com/a/3zMULPX

 

[toomuchB]

Does anyone know what is going on in the centre of this stone? Is the white cloudiness some sort of inclusion? The centre of the stone looks a bit dull even though this stone seems to have a decent amount of depth.

This particular ruby also looks a bit orange to me even though it’s a Mozambique ruby with medium to strong fluorescence - usually the ones with fluorescence look a bit pink/purple so I’m not sure if the photos depict the true colour of the stone.

https://imgur.com/a/3zMULPX

Can you clarify what you mean by white cloudiness or circle it? I assume you aren't referring to the light reflecting off the table in the video creating a glare at some angles.
The center is dull probably because of the windowed cut

Okay I had a closer look, this from the side?

 

[lucyc]

Can you clarify what you mean by white cloudiness or circle it? I assume you aren't referring to the light reflecting off the table in the video creating a glare at some angles.
The center is dull probably because of the windowed cut

Okay I had a closer look, this from the side?

Sorry I was referring to this that I’ve circled. I asked the vendor but they said it wasn’t an inclusion but I can see something in the table.

https://imgur.com/a/0LvoEjT

The stone does have a a bit silk - is it considered a sleepy stone?

 

[toomuchB]

Sorry I was referring to this that I’ve circled. I asked the vendor but they said it wasn’t an inclusion but I can see something in the table.

https://imgur.com/a/0LvoEjT

The stone does have a a bit silk - is it considered a sleepy stone?

Thanks for clarifying. I'd rather let people with a better eye give you a more accurate analysis.
To my eye/guesswork (bucket of salt, listen to others not me) - this is just silk, and not a crazy amount that is concerning. Sleepy is subjective. Its not crystal clear but its not terribly milky. Its a nice balance but what is too much is personal. It is possible what you describe as a cloud is just the dullness from the window combined with noting at how the light interacts with the silk when there is no brilliance from facets (because of the window)

 

[Autumn in New England]

It's just the effects of a window.

 

[Avondale]

Does anyone know what is going on in the centre of this stone? Is the white cloudiness some sort of inclusion? The centre of the stone looks a bit dull even though this stone seems to have a decent amount of depth.

It's not an inclusion, it's a simple window. Since the wall behind is white, and you're seeing the wall through the window, you see what you perceive as white cloudiness. But it's just the wall.