Does this "look" to good to be an SI2

[pauly1]

Hey there, sorry if I''m being a pain in the you know what, but I had to start a new post. I''m 99% sure I''m going to be purchasing this stone in the next 18 hours, so I don''t want to leave anything to chance. My concern with this stone is that it''s rated an SI2, but when you look at the plot it''s so clean, with the exception of the feather. So my questions is, is the feather big enought to make it an SI2 or am I missing something? I looked at the stone in person today, and It looked eye clean to me, but I''m relitavely new to this. Under the loupe it''s very visible, which doesn''t bother me. Something just isn''t sitting right with me. Any thoughts, or is this just the night before anxiety?

 

[fansynancy]

Have you seen the stone in person? You can have it sent to an appraiser in your area and look at it to see if it is eyeclean. I recently bought an SI stone and it is eyeclean and very beautiful. The purchase of a diamond is a big step and I''m glad I took the suggestion of wise PS''ers and saw my stone in person (along with 2 others) so that I could make an informed, intelligent decision.

 

[elmo]

Must be a pretty big feather

. Why don''t you ask a pro to look at it? The plot is only a map.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/26/2007 8:25:59 PM
Author: elmo
Must be a pretty big feather

. Why don''t you ask a pro to look at it? The plot is only a map.

Agreed. I''d send it out to an appraiser to make sure it doesn''t present any durability issues or anything.

 

[pauly1]

Have you seen the stone in person? You can have it sent to an appraiser in your area and look at it to see if it is eyeclean. I recently bought an SI stone and it is eyeclean and very beautiful. The purchase of a diamond is a big step and I''m glad I took the suggestion of wise PS''ers and saw my stone in person (along with 2 others) so that I could make an informed, intelligent decision.


I have seen the stone, today, and it looks beautiful. I guess I just don''t understand the grading system. 99% of all SI2 plots that I''ve seen have A LOT more inclusions than what''s being shown on my report. On the left plot there''s not a mark, and the right just has the feather. I just didn''t think that would be enough to make it an SI2. Is it based on the size of the feather?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/26/2007 9:18:28 PM
Author: pauly1
I have seen the stone, today, and it looks beautiful. I guess I just don't understand the grading system. 99% of all SI2 plots that I've seen have A LOT more inclusions than what's being shown on my report. On the left plot there's not a mark, and the right just has the feather. I just didn't think that would be enough to make it an SI2. Is it based on the size of the feather?

There are a lot of things that go into the formula, but yes, size and placement also affect a stone's grade. Which is why I am slightly cautious, because it must be a BIG feather if it is the only mark and the stone is an SI2. Hopefully an appraiser will chime in too...

 

[pauly1]

Thanks Neatfreak. I looked at it in the loupe and it look pretty much identical to how it''s drawn on the lab report. I can''t say for sure how deep the feather is, but it looks exactly like it''s drawn.

 

[pauly1]

Any appraisers out there have any comments?

 

[FireGoddess]

I'm not an appraiser, but I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to give you the info you want without actually examining the stone. The inclusion plots are a map of where the inclusions are, but you can't judge a stone by them alone. I have seen VS2 stones that have a LOT more drawn on their plots than your SI2 does, but clearly those inclusions altogether are not as notable as your one large inclusion. So you can't ever judge the look of a stone merely by how much ink is on the inclusion plot. Period.

I suggest that you get the stone looked at by an appraiser within the return period if you pull the trigger.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Any comments on the cert?...if so, these may provide useful info.

 

[pauly1]

Gary,

The only comment was "surface graining is not shown". I actually picked up the stone this morning. It''s about 5 posts down

Still curious to hear your thougths though. Thanks.

 

[vivianv]

I''m confused. I thought stones were graded from the top but this one only show on the underside view. If the inclusion is bad enough will it be graded from the bottom? That''s what would bother me about this feather if it were me.

 

[DiamondExpert]

pauly1 - the cert comment does not seem important for the clarity grade of this stone.

viv - diamonds are examined from all angles during clarity grading. In this case the grade-determining inclusion is seen prominently pavilion up and thus plotted there...it may be, may partly be or may not be visible face up at 10x

While the clarity grade is indeed influenced by the face up appearance, it is not the determining factor in setting the grade, otherwise, according to the plot, this stone would be graded IF!

It works the other way also...a single inclusion near the culet may give the face up appearance of a stone with multiple inclusions (a reflector), requiring a "down grade" in clarity that would not be required if that inclusion had been under one of the crown facets where it did not reflect.

 

[JohnQuixote]

In addition to what Gary has said, GIA plots feathers on the pavilion if they reach its surface.

 

[DiamondExpert]

''ats a good point JQ

 

[vivianv]

Thank you! Clears that right up for me. Does that mean this feather is plotted on the GIA report because it reaches the surface of the pavilion? Isn''t that a bad thing??

 

[pauly1]

OK….. that’s a little unnerving. Are you sure this is the case all the time? I’m by no means a gemologist but I’m looking at the stone from the pavilion side and I can’t see anything that appears to be breaking the surface.

 

[DiamondExpert]

No, it wouldn't always have to be the case.

In order to see it properly you would need a gem microscope in reflected light, not darkfield lighting which is designed to see the internal portions of the stone.

Using a loupe is difficult at the best of times, unless you have a fair bit of experience.

And it isn't necessarily "bad" for the stone - it did after all survive the heat and pressure of cutting - anyway you should be covered by insurance, no?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 11/27/2007 4:27:36 PM
Author: vivianv
I'm confused. I thought stones were graded from the top but this one only show on the underside view. If the inclusion is bad enough will it be graded from the bottom? That's what would bother me about this feather if it were me.

Stones are graded from the top. They are plotted from both the top and the bottom, with only those inclusions that touch the pavilion plotted from the bottom. This prevents plotting the same inclusions from both the top and bottom, making the stone look worse than it is.

Wink

 

[pauly1]

No, it wouldn''t always have to be the case.

In order to see it properly you would need a gem microscope in reflected light, not darkfield lighting which is designed to see the internal portions of the stone.

Using a loupe is difficult at the best of times, unless you have a fair bit of experience.

And it isn''t necessarily "bad" for the stone - it did after all survive the heat and pressure of cutting - anyway you should be covered by insurance, no?
Gary


Thanks Gary,

When I look at the stone without a loupe face up or Pavilion up, I can''t see the feather at all. However, looking through the loupe face up, it''s clearly obvious. I don''t think I looked with a loupe, Pavilion up. I don''t really care what it look like under the loupe, only with my unaided eye. My ony concern is when I have have the stone set. If what WINK has said is true and they GIA puts plots on the Pavilion when they reach the surface, does this pose a big problem when I set the stone? COuld the feather run or worse?

 

[pauly1]

Out of the tons of pictures I''ve taken, some very specific light, and zoomed in A LOT, you can see the feather.

 

[vivianv]

OK. I'm confused again. If the grading is indeed done from the top and this stone is graded an SI2 and the feather is not plotted on the top view , only from the pavilion side, how can it be an SI2?

Also, I thought that if an inclusion was a structural problem to the diamond it would be graded lower than SI? Can an SI2 inclusion be a possibly damaging inclusion?



Sorry Pauly1, I did not set out to make you unsure of your beautiful stone, just trying to understand this grading thing for myself.

 

[DiamondExpert]

The pic is very nice - it looks like you have a very "clean"/and eye clean SI2!


"If what WINK has said is true and they GIA puts plots on the Pavilion when they reach the surface, does this pose a big problem when I set the stone? COuld the feather run or worse?"

To put your mind at ease, have the stone examined by an independent appraiser. My guess is that the inclusion is not going to present a durability issue (but that''s just pure speculation at this point). If the appraiser can confirm that you shouldn''t be concerned about the setting procedure and normal wear, enjoy!...BUT get it confirmed!

Yes, some SI2 inclusions might present a durability issue - it just depends on the size, nature and location.

While what Wink says is true, inclusions not visible face up, regardless of whether they break the surface, must, of necessity, be plotted on the pavilion plot.

Usually you will only see the same inclusion plotted from top and bottom in situations where it breaks both crown and pavilion surfaces - they aren''t duplicated, but just form a continuation of the way the inclusion looks viewed face up and pavilion up. The pavilion plot is a 180deg rotation of the crown plot from the 12 o''clock position of the crown to the 6 o''clock position of the pavilion...that geometric relationship can tell you if you have a continuous inclusion when you see a feather reach the edge of the stone, say at the 12 o''clock crown position, and it shows up as a feather reaching the edge of the 6 o''clock position in the pavilion plot.

 

[pauly1]

Sorry Pauly1, I did not set out to make you unsure of your beautiful stone, just trying to understand this grading thing for myself.

Not at all, don''t apologize. I need to understand this as well. From an aesthetic standpoint, the stone is gorgeous. I just want to make sure there won''t be any problems when I set it. Which is why I will have it appraised?

Gary, thanks for your comments. What are my scenarios here. the appraiser say''s "don''t set it or it will break, "set it but you are taking a serious risk, or "it''s fine"? If it''s either of the first two am I totally and completely screwed?