Does low clarity badly affect trade-in and resale value?

[Candycane]

Hi I don’t post much mostly lurk lol but for you I will share my experience hopefully it will help with your decision.

I recently upgraded my diamond for our 5 year anniversary (haven’t updated my photo). Anyway it is now a 3 carat E SI1 cushion. It is absolutely completely eye clean! Nobody would guess it is an SI1 without a scope. I cannot see the inclusions even when I examine it super close with my naked eye which nobody looking at my ring would do besides myself. I have had it appraised and the appraiser was going on about how beautiful it was and she didn’t find the inclusions right away under the scope at first. She took some time to find and compare the inclusions with the the GIA cert. However she did find them after looking at it for a bit, it is an SI 1 after all so there are some inclusions just not obvious ones.

For me it was a great value because I was really looking to hit the 3 carat mark for a certain budget and I wouldn’t have been able to if I did not go down to a bit on clarity.

On the other hand color for me had to be G or bettter when I was looking. This is because I had an I color before and a jeweler gave me a complex about it when I had it cleaned once.

So if you are on the fence about color, clarity, size it will always be in the back of your mind! Hence the reason why I now have an E color

 

[icy_jade]

Hi I don’t post much mostly lurk lol but for you I will share my experience hopefully it will help with your decision.

I recently upgraded my diamond for our 5 year anniversary (haven’t updated my photo). Anyway it is now a 3 carat E SI1 cushion. It is absolutely completely eye clean! Nobody would guess it is an SI1 without a scope. I cannot see the inclusions even when I examine it super close with my naked eye which nobody looking at my ring would do besides myself. I have had it appraised and the appraiser was going on about how beautiful it was and she didn’t find the inclusions right away under the scope at first. She took some time to find and compare the inclusions with the the GIA cert. However she did find them after looking at it for a bit, it is an SI 1 after all so there are some inclusions just not obvious ones.

For me it was a great value because I was really looking to hit the 3 carat mark for a certain budget and I wouldn’t have been able to if I did not go down to a bit on clarity.

On the other hand color for me had to be G or bettter when I was looking. This is because I had an I color before and a jeweler gave me a complex about it when I had it cleaned once.

So if you are on the fence about color, clarity, size it will always be in the back of your mind! Hence the reason why I now have an E color

Thanks for sharing! Do appreciate you coming out of lurkdom to post for me.

I haven’t decided for entirely another reason... I’ll post on the other thread (where I asked about CBI G SI2 diamond) as I really did mean for this thread to be about whether low clarity does affect resale value. Anyway was debating if I should update and I guess this seals it. (Long story so I need a bit of time to type using the phone...)

 

[dumbo]

Meh.....this comes down to a certain predisposition and lack of CR skills.

If you were to have purchased a VS1 stone in, say J color, would the trade-in value be the same? You need to compare apples to apples here. Savvy buyers will look for a lower clarity, eye-clean stone to get a larger size. There is an SI1 on WF right now: J color for $37,000 at 3.7ct. A whole lot of buyers would rather own a massive 3.7ct rather than a cleaner clarity 3.0ct for that price. Nobody without a loupe sees the extra inclusions of the SI1, but EVERYONE sees a difference in size and light reflection between 3.0 ct and 3.7ct.

Although I am not in the trade myself, I know of at least 2 wholesalers who specifically look for eye-clean borderline SI1-Si2 stones, as the value for the buyer is there in terms of size. I deal across a lot of industries, and one person's opinion (in this case, the diamond buyer you referenced) is simply one person's opinion. I once heard a Porsche sales guy say something along the lines of "really, who wants to buy a 911 with 70,000 miles on it?". As it turns out, a whole lot of buyers. Savvy buyers know that 911's depreciate in a U-shaped manner, and these cars are bulletproof at nearly Toyota levels of reliability. Pick one up a 2015 with 65,000 miles for 55% of MSRP and you may be selling it 4 years later for the same price, or even being paid to drive it, such as is the case with the 997.2 platform. The issue here was that the guy was at a dealer, probably trained a certain way, and predisposed to a certain way of thinking.

Lack of critical thinking is bad in all sorts of ways.

 

[msop04]

Wait... what?

So you could buy a $10k stone then upgrade to an $11,001 stone for $1?

Surely that could continue forever?

If so, that would mean that for the grand sum of $10, you could upgrade from a $10k stone to a stone worth $67.3k in 20 trades?

10000
11001
12102.1
13313.31
14645.64
16111.21
17723.33
19496.66
21447.32
23593.06
25953.36
28549.7
31405.67
34547.23
38002.96
41804.25
45985.68
50585.25
55644.77
61210.25
67332.27


Have they thought this through?? lol


(Have you got their number? )

Actually... yes! I guess you could! To my knowledge, there is no "maximum" of times you can trade up, so... yeah!

Damn. I never thought of that... that's GENIUS!!!! *off to count cash*

 

[msop04]

Dang, Oooh Shiny, I think you are on to something. Get me their number too!

Do I hear an oops coming soon?

Wink

SHHHHHH!!!! Don't say a word -- let me max out on this thing first! HA!

 

[msop04]

@OoohShiny

Here ya go!!

https://diamondsdirect.com/our-guarantees
Lifetime Upgrade
Diamonds Direct’s lifetime upgrade allows customers to trade their original engagement diamond, solitaire diamond pendant, and diamond studs for a different size, quality or shape. Think of it as a diamond savings account - you can come in as often as desired to trade in the original diamond and you’re only required to pay the difference between the two diamonds. It’s easy, you get 110% of your original purchase toward your new purchase. Our upgrade policy applies after 1 year.

ETA: ...I guess they know it's highly unlikely you'll spend $1. But the idea to just keep trading up for the minimal amount possible until you get to the desired size/color/clarity is really smart.

 

[msop04]

Sorry for the thread jack, OP!!

 

[doberman]

I have a D SI1 round brilliant stone. Cut was most important to me, so it's AGS0. No one can tell it's an SI1, including my daughter and her vision is exceptional. The jeweler who set the diamond commented that it was a "very clean stone" and he would have graded it E VS2.

I waffle about trading it in. I'd like a bit bigger stone (it's 2.1ct) but I don't want to sacrifice color. But I'd lose some money on the trade-in, so I don't want to go there yet.

 

[icy_jade]

I have a D SI1 round brilliant stone. Cut was most important to me, so it's AGS0. No one can tell it's an SI1, including my daughter and her vision is exceptional. The jeweler who set the diamond commented that it was a "very clean stone" and he would have graded it E VS2.

I waffle about trading it in. I'd like a bit bigger stone (it's 2.1ct) but I don't want to sacrifice color. But I'd lose some money on the trade-in, so I don't want to go there yet.

Can you go down to E or F and find a nice SI2 or is that not an option? Totally understand if the color won’t work for you but otherwise that’s a possible option to go bigger without spending as much vs a bigger D color stone.

Your dilemma also illustrates how important trade in policies are. DSS is real! I actually tried on a 3 carat at the store and I was like “hey it actually looks fine on my finger”. So some advantages to man hands? I can carry the biggest bling and look normal

 

[icy_jade]

Sorry for the thread jack, OP!!

Haha go ahead. It’s quite entertaining and if you manage to take advantage of this trick do let us know.

 

[doberman]

Can you go down to E or F and find a nice SI2 or is that not an option? Totally understand if the color won’t work for you but otherwise that’s a possible option to go bigger without spending as much vs a bigger D color stone.

Your dilemma also illustrates how important trade in policies are. DSS is real! I actually tried on a 3 carat at the store and I was like “hey it actually looks fine on my finger”. So some advantages to man hands? I can carry the biggest bling and look normal

I'd love to find a 3ct DEF with SI1 clarity. The problem with SI2 stones is that they often have clouds.

I don't exactly have "man-hands", but I think that a 3-3.5ct looks best on me.

 

[OoohShiny]

@OoohShiny

Here ya go!!

https://diamondsdirect.com/our-guarantees
Lifetime Upgrade
Diamonds Direct’s lifetime upgrade allows customers to trade their original engagement diamond, solitaire diamond pendant, and diamond studs for a different size, quality or shape. Think of it as a diamond savings account - you can come in as often as desired to trade in the original diamond and you’re only required to pay the difference between the two diamonds. It’s easy, you get 110% of your original purchase toward your new purchase. Our upgrade policy applies after 1 year.

ETA: ...I guess they know it's highly unlikely you'll spend $1. But the idea to just keep trading up for the minimal amount possible until you get to the desired size/color/clarity is really smart.

Thanks for posting the T&Cs!

I think the key part of that policy is the last sentence - "Our upgrade policy applies after 1 year".

I note it doesn't say '... and that 1 year restarts after each upgrade purchase', so does that mean you can wait one year then upgrade 20 times in the coming year? Or does it, in fact, mean that you have to wait one year from the initial purchase then wait another year between each upgrade?

It's also not particularly clear when they say "Diamonds Direct’s lifetime upgrade allows customers to trade their original engagement diamond, solitaire diamond pendant, and diamond studs for a different size, quality or shape" [my emphasis added]. Does that mean that one can go up in size but must keep colour and clarity and shape the same, for example? Or does that mean that you could swap a 1ct J SI2 MRB for a 1.2ct E VS1 Asscher, if by some miracle the latter was priced at 110%+USD1 of the former?


Contract law is tricky, but I believe it goes in favour of the party not writing the document, AIUI, so it would be interesting to test it

I think the problem would be that the 'test' would be only the second upgrade, so only the third stone, because they're not going to let you upgrade 19 times then on the 20th time say 'hang on a minute, we meant a year between each purchase..." lol


I presume they are betting on the price of diamonds rising over time and the value of money falling due to inflation, so that if you tried the $1 trick you'd never get anything bigger than your current stone, but as the PS graphs show, prices rise and fall! There must be an Excel calculation that could be done that includes inflation and the price of diamonds, to see if they are getting cheaper in real terms over time, but it's beyond my skills at this point in the evening



P.S. I'm glad no-one noticed my own error in my initial post lol

 

[Blingalingaling]

Didn't it say something about only paying the difference between the price of the old diamond and the new one? Does that mean that their stones are fixed in price when you go in to trade? If that's the case, they can make a fair amount of mark-up on their trade-ups. It was my understanding that sellers who offer generous trade-ups are generally more expensive to start with than sellers who don't have those policies, is that true? And in the case of "branded stones", that certain sellers have "exclusivity" on, they can command a price that they've alone established, unique to them. So, if that's the case, they might make more up-front selling you your first diamond, then they're going to sell you your next stone at a big profit and so on...??

 

[Blingalingaling]

That's not to say that they don't have fabulous, amazingly gorgeous stones to offer!! I'm just talking about price and mark-up.

 

[msop04]

Didn't it say something about only paying the difference between the price of the old diamond and the new one? Does that mean that their stones are fixed in price when you go in to trade? If that's the case, they can make a fair amount of mark-up on their trade-ups. It was my understanding that sellers who offer generous trade-ups are generally more expensive to start with than sellers who don't have those policies, is that true? And in the case of "branded stones", that certain sellers have "exclusivity" on, they can command a price that they've alone established, unique to them. So, if that's the case, they might make more up-front selling you your first diamond, then they're going to sell you your next stone at a big profit and so on...??

With DD... yes, you pay the difference. And they have the diamonds "priced" in the papers, and, yes, they are marked up... BUT you don't have pay that... or at least I WON'T PAY IT. You can and should negotiate the price with them. They came off almost $8K on my (latest) upgrade. I showed them comps from BN, Universal Diamonds (in ATL), and James Allen and just straight up told them what I wanted to pay for it. They came within about $600, which I thought was more than fair.

Regardless of where they make their profit, all you need to do is compare with other PS vendors to see if you're getting prices that are comparable... and I mean, with DD, you've already gotten 10% off because they credit the purchase cost plus 10% (110% trade in).

 

[Blingalingaling]

That's GREAT, @msop04 and thank you for clarifying this for me! Very interesting!

 

[msop04]

Thanks for posting the T&Cs!

I think the key part of that policy is the last sentence - "Our upgrade policy applies after 1 year".

I note it doesn't say '... and that 1 year restarts after each upgrade purchase', so does that mean you can wait one year then upgrade 20 times in the coming year? Or does it, in fact, mean that you have to wait one year from the initial purchase then wait another year between each upgrade?

It's also not particularly clear when they say "Diamonds Direct’s lifetime upgrade allows customers to trade their original engagement diamond, solitaire diamond pendant, and diamond studs for a different size, quality or shape" [my emphasis added]. Does that mean that one can go up in size but must keep colour and clarity and shape the same, for example? Or does that mean that you could swap a 1ct J SI2 MRB for a 1.2ct E VS1 Asscher, if by some miracle the latter was priced at 110%+USD1 of the former?


Contract law is tricky, but I believe it goes in favour of the party not writing the document, AIUI, so it would be interesting to test it

I think the problem would be that the 'test' would be only the second upgrade, so only the third stone, because they're not going to let you upgrade 19 times then on the 20th time say 'hang on a minute, we meant a year between each purchase..." lol


I presume they are betting on the price of diamonds rising over time and the value of money falling due to inflation, so that if you tried the $1 trick you'd never get anything bigger than your current stone, but as the PS graphs show, prices rise and fall! There must be an Excel calculation that could be done that includes inflation and the price of diamonds, to see if they are getting cheaper in real terms over time, but it's beyond my skills at this point in the evening

P.S. I'm glad no-one noticed my own error in my initial post lol

I think the "one year" refers to the first stone... but I could be wrong. However, my SA did say I could upgrade every month if I wanted to (jokingly, I'm sure), but... Hmmmm....

The only restriction with a trade in is that it cost $1 more.

ETA: my last upgrade is my third stone. I had a 2.01 I/SI2 first (2013), then traded before my ring was made for a 2.43 J/SI1 (also 2013, so maybe they didn't consider this a real "trade in"??), then my newest is a 3.33 I/SI2 (2016)

 

[msop04]

That's not to say that they don't have fabulous, amazingly gorgeous stones to offer!! I'm just talking about price and mark-up.

They do, but you really need to know what you want. I had them call in 7 stones (I specified at least 7). The last time I went in I asked for the full report so I could run a quick HCA on the stone I was obsessing over to see if my eyes weren't deceiving me. The VP was in the office with me and he genuinely asked why, so I told him I wanted to run the HCA. He just got this "deer in the headlights" look on his face and quietly asked, "Are you a Pricescope member?" I smiled and said yes. He was like, "...well, okay! Let's do this!" ...the HCA checked out, and here we are! I think his heart may have dropped a little, but at least he knew why I was being so picky.

 

[msop04]

God... complete thread jack. Again, sorry OP... I got a little long-winded.

 

[BlingDreams]

He just got this "deer in the headlights" look on his face and quietly asked, "Are you a Pricescope member?"

We strike fear in the heart of vendors!

 

[Blingalingaling]

We are definitely a challenge!!!

 

[OoohShiny]

haha! And the naysayers say the internet does not give consumers more power


I think it's probably a good thing I can't get their site to load - I would be very tempted to check out some <$1k asschers to see if I could start small and step up repeatedly...