Does anyone have an SI3 diamond?

[HappyNewLife]

I just won an auction (kinda on accident, oops) for a G/SI3 and am super crazy curious what an SI3 looks like. My e-ring is a F/SI2 and is eye-clean, so I kinda just went for it. I got a ridiculous deal for this 1.5 G/SI3, so I'm not expecting much.

I'd love to hear your experience with an SI3, both positive and negative!

Thanks!

 

[kenny]

The negative is they are more included than SI2s.
The positive is they cost less.

BTW GIA and AGS do not use the term SI3.
I1 is what they call the grade below SI2.
Less-respected labs coined the term SI3.

In 10 years those labs will probably call I2s, SI4s.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I would take both the terms SI3 and G with a grain. The fact that they're calling it an SI3 vs an I1 makes me wonder if their G is really an M

 

[Todd Gray]

It will look "just like" an I-1.

When EGL introduced the SI-3 clarity grade years ago, they said something like "it is used to describe diamonds which are too good to be graded I-1, but which are not quite SI-2" but that never made sense because they didn't implement a similar grading strategy for the other clarity grades... for instance, they didn't implement a VS-3 clarity grade for "diamonds which are too good to be graded as SI-1, but which are not quite VS-2" and so on... It's not an SI-3, it's an I-1.

 

[kenny]

I got a ridiculous deal for this 1.5 G/SI3, so I'm not expecting much.

Without a report from GIA or AGS you do not really know the grades.
If you do not really know the grades you do not really know how good the price was.

Good luck though.
I hope it is wonderful.

 

[HappyNewLife]

good point Kenny, *fingers crossed*

 

[denverappraiser]

It will look "just like" an I-1.

Sometimes they look just like I-2's

 

[Upgradable]

I just won an auction (kinda on accident, oops) for a G/SI3 and am super crazy curious what an SI3 looks like. My e-ring is a F/SI2 and is eye-clean, so I kinda just went for it. I got a ridiculous deal for this 1.5 G/SI3, so I'm not expecting much.

I'd love to hear your experience with an SI3, both positive and negative!

Thanks!

Who called it SI3? That's going to go a long way estimating how included it will be.

 

[vbnet]

Please post and let us know Happy. As long as you got it for a great price, what the heck, right?

 

[HappyNewLife]

I just won an auction (kinda on accident, oops) for a G/SI3 and am super crazy curious what an SI3 looks like. My e-ring is a F/SI2 and is eye-clean, so I kinda just went for it. I got a ridiculous deal for this 1.5 G/SI3, so I'm not expecting much.

I'd love to hear your experience with an SI3, both positive and negative!

Thanks!

Who called it SI3? That's going to go a long way estimating how included it will be.

the appraiser did. as far as i know it doesn't have a cert. i'll let you know how it goes in a couple weeks!

 

[stone-cold11]

Well, the appraiser is not working for you, so he is biased towards the seller. Do not think any reputable appraiser will use the SI3 grade as it is not recognize by GIA.

 

[diagem]

SI3 was implemented because of one reason only..., to soften up the value discrepancy between SI2 & I1. (which is no where near the realistic difference between VS2 & SI1).
Rapaport, instead of correcting/adjusting his price drop (sometimes as much as 50% from the down side, eg..., SI2 = 50%+ than I1) between these two grades chose the shortcut of adding the SI3 grade (to his list) which practically means SI3 value = approx 1/2 way between SI2 & I1.

Although I agree the price difference is out of sync with reality, I much rather place a value on a stone per stone basis...
For example: since the large majority of rough material I use in my cutting works is of higher quality, I do find myself occasionally with stones that were planned to end up as VS+ clarity but unfortunately were completed with a leftover feather (usually located at the edges) that GIA/AGS chose to grade as an I1..., marketing these type of stones equally to harsh I1's is not realistic an these stones fetch unbelievable premiums because of the nature of their I1 inclusions. So I think each I1 should be valued on its own merit!

 

[denverappraiser]

Well, the appraiser is not working for you, so he is biased towards the seller. Do not think any reputable appraiser will use the SI3 grade as it is not recognize by GIA.

There's no requirement that appraisers use the GIA grading scales and there are definitely cases where we don't so I wouldn't say this is, in and of itself, a problem with the appraiser, but I certainly agree that the fact that they are working for the seller and not you is a bad sign and is a reason to assume that their opinions are to be ignored unless you've got some good reason to believe otherwise. At this point it doesn't much matter. When the stone arrives, look at it and decide if it's worth considering. If it is, have it checked out by an appraiser who *IS* working for you and who you've chosen based on *YOUR* criteria instead of the sellers and then either buy it or not based on the results.

 

[tyty333]

Would love to see pics when you get it!

 

[HappyNewLife]

thanks everyone. I do plan to have it appraised when it arrives. If it looks like utter hell I may not even bother. I am pretty sure I can at least get the same amount if I re-listed it on ebay with better photos. i'm really not expecting much.

 

[betty6333]

I hope it turns out well for you! I have had some great deals off ebay and saved tons of $$. do post pics when you get it!

 

[Dancing Fire]

i never believed in an SI3 grade...IMO, no such grade.

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

Hello HappyNewLife,

The SI3 grade should be fairly clean to the eye, in theory. As previously mentioned the price/carat jumps significantly between SI2 and P1. Therefore, this grade (SI3) could be used to help the consumer make better decisions. In practice, grading standards tend to be slightly different from laboratory to laboratory. The SI2-P1 range is in my opinion the most burdened by these inconsistencies. I wish you all the best with yours.

 

[RhubarbPie]

I have SI2 (although they could be arguably I1) round studs. They are not eye clean but I don't mind because you can't see the inclusions unless you put your face next to my ear. They are very well cut so they look sparkly, etc. But I can definitely see the inclusions.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hello HappyNewLife,

The SI3 grade should be fairly clean to the eye, in theory. As previously mentioned the price/carat jumps significantly between SI2 and P1. Therefore, this grade (SI3) could be used to help the consumer make better decisions. In practice, grading standards tend to be slightly different from laboratory to laboratory. The SI2-P1 range is in my opinion the most burdened by these inconsistencies. I wish you all the best with yours.

CD...do you sell EGL stones?

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

Dear Dancing Fire,

Yes I do. I consider EGL a worthy report and can offer you EGL graded stones, although my preference goes to GIA, HRD and IGI.
For SI3's consider IGI and EGL. Your question in relation to SI3 is interesting as EGL, I believe, is the body who introduced this grade.

Regards.

 

[diagem]

Dear Dancing Fire,

Yes I do. I consider EGL a worthy report and can offer you EGL graded stones, although my preference goes to GIA, HRD and IGI.
For SI3's consider IGI and EGL. Your question in relation to SI3 is interesting as EGL, I believe, is the body who introduced this grade.

Regards.

Hi ClaesD,
Since you are experienced with EGL & SI3's, maybe you can explain more in detail on the parameters EGL use to distinguish between SI2 -- SI3 -- I1?

 

[valchiria]

For SI3's consider IGI and EGL.

IGI doesn't use SI3. Its clarity scale is:
IF - VVS1 - VVS2 -VS1 - VS2 - SI1 - SI2 - P1 - P2 - P3

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

Dear Valchira,
Yes that is true. (I did grading in IGI Antwerp.) Apologies for the phrasing.
...It's not common practice to send a SI3/P1 to GIA or HRD for example. It would go to EGL or IGI, in later case hoping it will make it into the SI2 bracket. Hence generally a good discount is available on an 'SI3' IGI which indeed on the report shows up as SI2 because no distinction is made.
Regards

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

Dear DiaGem,

EGL Los Angeles introduced the grade in April 1992, Martin Rapaport adopted it in 1993.

Regards.

 

[diagem]

Dear DiaGem,

EGL Los Angeles introduced the grade in April 1992, Martin Rapaport adopted it in 1993.

Regards.

Hi ClaesD,
Since you are experienced with EGL & SI3's, maybe you can explain more in detail on the parameters EGL use to distinguish between SI2 -- SI3 -- I1?

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

Hi DiaGem,

I mentioned 'fairly clean' earlier. EGL themselves don't explain it much better. EGL will admit in most cases the SI3 inclusions can be seen by trained naked eye. It is very much a matter of location to them where an appreciable feather near the girdle (on the side) may still warrant SI3, if that same inclusion was located in the table, P1 may be given. It is a matter of opinion. On the contrary IGI would say SI grades are for inclusions that cannot within reasonable time be discovered by the trained naked eye. A key criteria for IGI is that the investigating naked eye should be new to the stone. If you had seen the stone under loup first or knew where the SI2 inclusion was, your naked eye may well pick it up when searching for it. For this reason, a dealer or grader will always look naked eye first.

Kind regards.

 

[WinkHPD]

SI3 was implemented because of one reason only..., to soften up the value discrepancy between SI2 & I1. (which is no where near the realistic difference between VS2 & SI1).
Rapaport, instead of correcting/adjusting his price drop (sometimes as much as 50% from the down side, eg..., SI2 = 50%+ than I1) between these two grades chose the shortcut of adding the SI3 grade (to his list) which practically means SI3 value = approx 1/2 way between SI2 & I1.

<Snip>

Actually the grade was conceived of and used originally by Tom Tashey when he was with the LA branch of EGL. He felt that there was far too great a discrepancy between the SI2 grade and the I1 grade in terms of price, especially in I1 stones that looked like SI2 stones as opposed to I1 stones that looked like borderline I2 stones.

Many cutters were happy to jump on board with this as they could now get more reasonable pricing for their high I1 goods. I suspect that many stones sent to GIA and failing to get the coveted SI2 grade were re papered at EGL for the SI3 grade as this would salvage a great deal of the value for the stone that did not quite make it to SI2. As stated above, the price difference was brutal, often of inclusions very hard to detect with the unaided eye. This was long before the days of H&A and cut grades on diamond grading reports.

Wink

 

[ClaesDiamonds]

*Thomas Tashey

 

[WinkHPD]

*Thomas Tashey

You are correct, my fingers forgot to type the "y"

Thank you and welcome to Pricescope.

Wink