Let me be clear that I value the idea of friendship: A mutually supportive and respectful relationship in which both parties have fun together but also give and receive emotional sustenance, free of jealousy and resentment.
Please excuse me while I roll about on the floor clutching my sides.
Throughout my life I've always had a lot of close female friends, there's been a lot of wine-pouring and parsing of boyfriend troubles and many, many conversations deep into the night.
However, that was when I was younger.
Since getting older, friendship seems to have changed. This thread is bouncing off the "Are you happy?" thread where CJ and I were discussing how many people wish only to talk about themselves, permanently. Moving through my forties, I've found that people have become self-involved to a really amazing degree. It wasn't like that in our twenties and thirties. I have had dinners where, as CJ says, the other person talks about themselves the entire evening.
Yesterday, I was with a friend who's had some really bad times and I've been supportive. Finally, when it was my turn to speak, she yells and points over my shoulder "Corgi! I love corgis!" Yeah. I get it. What I'm saying means nothing, unless I'm handing out comfort to you.
I have broken off "friendships" with around five women over the last couple of years because their levels of selfishness were absolutely appalling. One was so bad that she permanently hogged the conversation, and when I tried to talk, do you know what she did? She actually raised her voice. And, if you can believe this, she did this the first time I saw her after my dad died, about which she could have cared less. We no longer speak.
It seems to me that this tsunami of selfishness has appeared in middle age. Most people have not been there for me during my own troubles and only wish to talk about themselves, and friendship always having been important to me, this has caused me to re-think the value of friendship. Do I really need it? If it's so false and flimsy, aren't I better off trying to write that novel or compose that symphony or take a part-time job and earn some money? What's the use of putting any time into friendship if it's all built on sand, as it so frequently seems to be? I could be earning extra money or honing a skill.
You know, I really like to have a glass of wine and a laugh with people, too. But nowadays, everyone's so busy talking about themselves that we don't even get to the jokes and the laughs.
I really think that very few people are enlightened, wise, and kind enough to be a true friend. I also think that there are many people who are fine as long as you are not too successful, but what about if you got really successful? Wonderful home, great clothes, great vacations? I'm not sure how many of them would stick around. Not that I'm about to be successful, but I don't want to waste time on fair-weather friends, either.
But when I was younger, selfish women were never, ever a problem, and now I have great trouble finding friends who aren't a) completely selfish and self-involved, or b) not completely selfish all the time but are clearly struggling to pay you and your life any real attention. Where did this tidal wave of selfishness come from? It's true that everyone I know is dealing with terrible life problems, but I have also dealt with those over the last few years, and I don't think it's turned me into someone who is virtually incapable of realizing that others exist and others have needs.
I realize that we all need people, but I think I'm done with the deep-and-meaningfuls. I think I'd rather just have my community and see people in a group while doing something fun, like taking a course. The older I get, the less store I set by deep friendship, and that is based on experience.
A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!
I have been very, very hurt by what amounts to rejection of me by people who clearly are not in the least interested in what I have to say, and not even caring much about hiding that fact, I am apparently so unimportant. It's also hard to hold on to your confidence when so many people who are meant to be friends could care less about anything that comes out of your mouth.
I think I might have to institute a policy where I just do not provide any support or comfort to anyone, since that's all anyone ever seems to use me for. I might have to restrict myself to "I'm so sorry, I don't know what to say." Cooing noises, in other words.
I'd be interested to hear others' experiences of friendships as they have aged and serious life stressors such as terminal bereavement, and other issues have come into play. Has life stress had negative impacts on others' abilities to relate, in your experience?
Sorry if this is depressing but I find these "friendships" depressing.
Please excuse me while I roll about on the floor clutching my sides.
Throughout my life I've always had a lot of close female friends, there's been a lot of wine-pouring and parsing of boyfriend troubles and many, many conversations deep into the night.
However, that was when I was younger.
Since getting older, friendship seems to have changed. This thread is bouncing off the "Are you happy?" thread where CJ and I were discussing how many people wish only to talk about themselves, permanently. Moving through my forties, I've found that people have become self-involved to a really amazing degree. It wasn't like that in our twenties and thirties. I have had dinners where, as CJ says, the other person talks about themselves the entire evening.
Yesterday, I was with a friend who's had some really bad times and I've been supportive. Finally, when it was my turn to speak, she yells and points over my shoulder "Corgi! I love corgis!" Yeah. I get it. What I'm saying means nothing, unless I'm handing out comfort to you.
I have broken off "friendships" with around five women over the last couple of years because their levels of selfishness were absolutely appalling. One was so bad that she permanently hogged the conversation, and when I tried to talk, do you know what she did? She actually raised her voice. And, if you can believe this, she did this the first time I saw her after my dad died, about which she could have cared less. We no longer speak.
It seems to me that this tsunami of selfishness has appeared in middle age. Most people have not been there for me during my own troubles and only wish to talk about themselves, and friendship always having been important to me, this has caused me to re-think the value of friendship. Do I really need it? If it's so false and flimsy, aren't I better off trying to write that novel or compose that symphony or take a part-time job and earn some money? What's the use of putting any time into friendship if it's all built on sand, as it so frequently seems to be? I could be earning extra money or honing a skill.
You know, I really like to have a glass of wine and a laugh with people, too. But nowadays, everyone's so busy talking about themselves that we don't even get to the jokes and the laughs.
I really think that very few people are enlightened, wise, and kind enough to be a true friend. I also think that there are many people who are fine as long as you are not too successful, but what about if you got really successful? Wonderful home, great clothes, great vacations? I'm not sure how many of them would stick around. Not that I'm about to be successful, but I don't want to waste time on fair-weather friends, either.
But when I was younger, selfish women were never, ever a problem, and now I have great trouble finding friends who aren't a) completely selfish and self-involved, or b) not completely selfish all the time but are clearly struggling to pay you and your life any real attention. Where did this tidal wave of selfishness come from? It's true that everyone I know is dealing with terrible life problems, but I have also dealt with those over the last few years, and I don't think it's turned me into someone who is virtually incapable of realizing that others exist and others have needs.
I realize that we all need people, but I think I'm done with the deep-and-meaningfuls. I think I'd rather just have my community and see people in a group while doing something fun, like taking a course. The older I get, the less store I set by deep friendship, and that is based on experience.
A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!
I have been very, very hurt by what amounts to rejection of me by people who clearly are not in the least interested in what I have to say, and not even caring much about hiding that fact, I am apparently so unimportant. It's also hard to hold on to your confidence when so many people who are meant to be friends could care less about anything that comes out of your mouth.
I think I might have to institute a policy where I just do not provide any support or comfort to anyone, since that's all anyone ever seems to use me for. I might have to restrict myself to "I'm so sorry, I don't know what to say." Cooing noises, in other words.
I'd be interested to hear others' experiences of friendships as they have aged and serious life stressors such as terminal bereavement, and other issues have come into play. Has life stress had negative impacts on others' abilities to relate, in your experience?
Sorry if this is depressing but I find these "friendships" depressing.