Do you have the right to recline your plane seat?

[Haven]

This is a pretty random sample of people I think!

Miss Stepcut, I see your point, however to be honest, it is part of flying, whether you (not you per say, generally speaking) like it or not. You have agreed to take a flight and everythig that comes with it. People should chill out a bit and enjoy life. Does it really matter and will it make a difference in your life if some stranger in front of you wants to recline his chair? I don't get it!!

I agree! (About the general sentiment, not as a reaction to MissS.)

This thread makes me wonder how much our background has to do with our discomfort level in this situation. I was raised in a small home and basically never had any space to myself growing up. I wonder if people who have had the luxury of having a lot of personal space their entire lives find it more off-putting to fly in cramped quarters.

On another note: I'm just under 5'10", and I weigh around 160 to 165 lbs. So, I'm not a small person. My inseam is 35", just had it measured. At my size, I've never had my knees hit the seat in front of me, reclined or upright. I don't feel too squeezed in side-to-side, either. I've been a passenger on a variety of airlines--KLM, Swiss Air, Virgin, United, Continental, AA, Delta, El Al. Interesting how widely our perceptions vary!

 

[missy]

This thread makes me wonder how much our background has to do with our discomfort level in this situation. I was raised in a small home and basically never had any space to myself growing up. I wonder if people who have had the luxury of having a lot of personal space their entire lives find it more off-putting to fly in cramped quarters.

Haven, I definitely think this is true. Our tolerance level has much to do with our backgrounds and how we grew up. I grew up in a small home and shared a bedroom with my sister for much of my childhood and I have never personally experienced someone reclining into my space on a plane to be too much. (There are way too many other unpleasant aspects of flying IMO for that to really bother me). However, I can tell you, as I get older my tolerance for small spaces and people in my space is definitely getting lower so I think there are a variety of factors at play here.

 

[monarch64]

This thread makes me wonder how much our background has to do with our discomfort level in this situation. I was raised in a small home and basically never had any space to myself growing up. I wonder if people who have had the luxury of having a lot of personal space their entire lives find it more off-putting to fly in cramped quarters.

Haven, I definitely think this is true. Our tolerance level has much to do with our backgrounds and how we grew up. I grew up in a small home and shared a bedroom with my sister for much of my childhood and I have never personally experienced someone reclining into my space on a plane to be too much. (There are way too many other unpleasant aspects of flying IMO for that to really bother me). However, I can tell you, as I get older my tolerance for small spaces and people in my space is definitely getting lower so I think there are a variety of factors at play here.

I don't know if background/how you grew up has anything to do with how you feel about your personal space. I grew up in a very large home (~6k sq. feet) on 60+ acres of land. My ONLY space issue is feeling crowded in the kitchen, ANY kitchen. I am tall and am very easygoing about airplanes and personal space therein. Go figure. *Shrugs.*

 

[ForteKitty]

Clearance does vary though.

For international, Air New Zealand has so much space that my fingertips barely touch the screen if i'm sitting w/ the seat upright. If I recline, i can't even touch the seat in front of me. Cathay doesn't have nearly as much space.

As for domestic, Jet Blue has a ton of space, and Delta is just about as crappy as it gets.

I want to add that Virgin America has the crappiest lumbar support. Instead of supporting, it actually caves IN. Plus they have super thin seats so my butt hurts. Hawaiian Airline's new planes from LAX to HNL are almost as bad.

Delta is luxury compared to United! I've been bumped to United from Air Canada several times and to get a seat with as much space as Delta's you have to pay an extra $60 for "up to 5 more inches". If I don't buy the extra space, I am touching the seat in front of me before its reclined!
United doesn't have personalized entertainment systems on most of their planes, so you're watching a preselected move on the tiny screen in the aisle like you're back in the early nineties. I've never not been delayed on United, and in those cases they just loop the movie. So I somehow saw Bucket List 3 times on my 2.5 hour flight...

Really? I think my last United flight had personalized entertainment systems, and it was pretty roomy. We were flying from Syracuse to lax. I never fly United any other time tho, so the other routes might be different. As much as i complain about Virgin America's seats, I love their entertainment system and book them whenever i can for domestic flights.

Another PSA: always look at the TYPE of plane you are booking!!! seat comfort vary! I personally find Boeing seats to be more comfy than Airbus seats.

 

[Aoife]

Regarding the polls on travel sites that MissStepcut and Pandora have mentioned: those are completely unreliable from a scientific viewpoint. It's a self-selecting group, and therefore totally non-representative. Plus, I challenge those PS'ers who really believe that 50% of travelers are vehemently opposed to reclining seats to take a stroll down the aisle of an airplane on a 3+ hour flight, and I guarantee that more than 50% of the seats are reclined at least a little bit!

Chemgirl, I'm wondering if you were on United or United Express flights? United Express, like American Eagle and some of the other short-haul affiliates, has some really dire conditions on some planes--right up there with US Air--but the full size United flights, IMO, are very, very nice, especially if you are willing to pay a small amount extra for the Economy Plus seats, which we always do if we can. When we fly to Hawaii, United is always our carrier of choice.

One of our favorite airlines used to be Lufthansa, although I'm not sure if they are still as generous with space and service as they used to be.

 

[MissStepcut]

Aoife, while our polls may not be accurate, I can't think of any reason why a smaller poll on PS would be more scientifically valid. For one thing, PS & the Hangout is mostly women, who are less likely to run into thighbone length issues. How tall is the average American woman now? 5'4"?

 

[iheartscience]

Aoife, while our polls may not be accurate, I can't think of any reason why a smaller poll on PS would be more scientifically valid. For one thing, PS & the Hangout is mostly women, who are less likely to run into thighbone length issues. How tall is the average American woman now? 5'4"?

I'm not Aoife, but I said the same thing. It's because a poll on a site about travel would attract people who feel more strongly about the issue than a diamond website, so there's selection bias. PSers are most likely more neutral on travel issues. And a diamond-related poll on PS would have more selection bias than a diamond-related poll on a travel website.

 

[kenny]

But a reclining seat may block some of the overhead spotlighting that makes our diamonds look fabulous.
That's the reason I beat the Hell out of a recliner in front of me.

 

[MissStepcut]

Aoife, while our polls may not be accurate, I can't think of any reason why a smaller poll on PS would be more scientifically valid. For one thing, PS & the Hangout is mostly women, who are less likely to run into thighbone length issues. How tall is the average American woman now? 5'4"?

I'm not Aoife, but I said the same thing. It's because a poll on a site about travel would attract people who feel more strongly about the issue than a diamond website, so there's selection bias. PSers are most likely more neutral on travel issues. And a diamond-related poll on PS would have more selection bias than a diamond-related poll on a travel website.

But wouldn't frequent travelers be the people more likely to be on the plane as well, and be more representative of the population on any given plane? I think the gender tilt around here is pretty damning as far as bias goes.

 

[Aoife]

+1 to what Thing2of2 said.

MissStepcut: No, not necessarily. You are making a series of assumptions, and those have no validity when it comes to polls. It might be that the people on a travel site who are most likely to take the poll are people who suffer from recliner-rage: in other words, people who give a flying fig. It might be that frequent flyers are mostly men with an excess of testosterone ( ), it might be a whole bunch of things, none of which we have access to. That's why polls are so darned hard to get validity on. Just when you think you've controlled for all the variables, you find out no, actually, you haven't. Of course this PS poll is also completely unscientific, but, as Thing pointed out, it's also less likely to be skewed in some ways than the other polls.

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

This past Sunday I witnessed a near brawl over seat reclining.

The last row of Frontier flights does not recline. I sat next to a father who was holding his ~18-month-old daughter on his lap in this last row. The man in front of the dad wanted to recline. All the way. He kept reclining, and the dad kept pushing, hitting, shoving the seat forward. Each time the dad would push on the seat, the man in front of him would press the 'recline' button and SLAM backward with all of his might. It was a battle of strength and force.

The father ended up winning. Had he not, his toddler's face would have been three inches away from the reclined seat. Literally.

My husband and I couldn't stop talking about the behavior exhibited by these two grown men on an airplane. I understand they were both frustrated, but they acted so childishly

 

[MissStepcut]

+1 to what Thing2of2 said.

MissStepcut: No, not necessarily. You are making a series of assumptions, and those have no validity when it comes to polls. It might be that the people on a travel site who are most likely to take the poll are people who suffer from recliner-rage: in other words, people who give a flying fig. It might be that frequent flyers are mostly men with an excess of testosterone ( ), it might be a whole bunch of things, none of which we have access to. That's why polls are so darned hard to get validity on. Just when you think you've controlled for all the variables, you find out no, actually, you haven't. Of course this PS poll is also completely unscientific, but, as Thing pointed out, it's also less likely to be skewed in some ways than the other polls.

I agree that there might be bias in either poll, and both are unlikely representative of the population generally, but I vehemently disagree that the PS one is definitely superior for showing anything other than how PSers feel.

 

[kenny]

This past Sunday I witnessed a near brawl over seat reclining.

The last row of Frontier flights does not recline. I sat next to a father who was holding his ~18-month-old daughter on his lap in this last row. The man in front of the dad wanted to recline. All the way. He kept reclining, and the dad kept pushing, hitting, shoving the seat forward. Each time the dad would push on the seat, the man in front of him would press the 'recline' button and SLAM backward with all of his might. It was a battle of strength and force.

The father ended up winning. Had he not, his toddler's face would have been three inches away from the reclined seat. Literally.

My husband and I couldn't stop talking about the behavior exhibited by these two grown men on an airplane. I understand they were both frustrated, but they acted so childishly

Wouldn't it be fascinating to hear both of their stories told in private to a competent therapist? (of course with a secret camera taping it.)
What did they feel and think?
What buttons did it push?
What was being taken away?
What were they fighting for?
What did it mean?
What was behind the battle?

I'd love to know.
This topic clearly taps into something we are not very conscious of.

 

[Aoife]

I agree that there might be bias in either poll, and both are unlikely representative of the population generally, but I vehemently disagree that the PS one is definitely superior for showing anything other than how PSers feel.

You may well be correct. Insufficient data in both cases!

 

[iheartscience]

But a reclining seat may block some of the overhead spotlighting that makes our diamonds look fabulous.
That's the reason I beat the Hell out of a recliner in front of me.

This made me actually LOL! I think beating someone for blocking overhead spotlighting is something PSers can all agree on! I also like the window seat lighting. I took this with my iPhone on a flight a couple of weeks ago:

 

[MissStepcut]

WOAH now that's a lotta sparkle!

 

[ForteKitty]

This past Sunday I witnessed a near brawl over seat reclining.

The last row of Frontier flights does not recline. I sat next to a father who was holding his ~18-month-old daughter on his lap in this last row. The man in front of the dad wanted to recline. All the way. He kept reclining, and the dad kept pushing, hitting, shoving the seat forward. Each time the dad would push on the seat, the man in front of him would press the 'recline' button and SLAM backward with all of his might. It was a battle of strength and force.

The father ended up winning. Had he not, his toddler's face would have been three inches away from the reclined seat. Literally.

My husband and I couldn't stop talking about the behavior exhibited by these two grown men on an airplane. I understand they were both frustrated, but they acted so childishly

The last row of most planes do not recline. If I was taking a child on a flight, i would never book that row. That said, the guy reclining could have been a little nicer about it, instead of slamming back repeatedly.

 

[kenny]

But a reclining seat may block some of the overhead spotlighting that makes our diamonds look fabulous.
That's the reason I beat the Hell out of a recliner in front of me.

This made me actually LOL! I think beating someone for blocking overhead spotlighting is something PSers can all agree on! I also like the window seat lighting. I took this with my iPhone on a flight a couple of weeks ago:

See.
I know you gurlz.

Cool Pic!

 

[Amys Bling]

Yes- but if your reclining unto someobes lap- gave common sense and brung your seat up a bit.

 

[Clairitek]

I thought about this thread for almost 10 hours while on a flight from Heathrow to SFO. The guy in front of me reclined almost immediately once we were allowed. The flight was an afternoon flight, leaving at 1 pm local time in London. He didn't sleep at all, just watched movies. I didn't recline though. I would have felt bad because the woman behind me was nudging my seat with her knees almost the entire flight so I knew reclining would make it worse. Plus, I was trying not to fall asleep so I could align myself with the time zone in CA.

At first I was totally miffed that the guy in front of me reclined even though I had previously stated my position was that I felt it was the recliner's right to recline (I think... I need to check). I think I realized in the end I was more upset about being closer to his INSANELY strong body odor. I was so hot and couldn't turn on my overhead vents because it blew his body odor in my face. He had to be asked TWICE to move his seat up while I was eating, and then he didn't even return it all the way to the upright position when asked the second time. Since he was reclined I couldn't see my screen properly without slouching. I think that may have been part of his decision to recline since the person in front of him was reclined as well. He wasn't much taller than I am... maybe 5'10".

I will agree with those who have stated that the distance between seats in coach class varies by plane model and airline. I feel the least cramped on Southwest Airlines. I've felt the most cramped on Continental, United, Delta, American Airlines, etc. To me, they are all the same. I flew premium economy on the way to London and had plenty of space (Virgin), but it came at a cost of $500 to my company. On the way home DH was with me so I flew coach with him.

I sort of giggled to myself on the way back to the US because I feel that my reaction to the recline was definitely more negative after reading this thread. My guilt about the recline has also increased.

ETA: I flew Easy Jet between London and Europe and you really are packed in there tightly. They removed the recline option on all of their seats, as well.