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Do you feel this country is crumbling?

Calliecake

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There have been three news stories I have been following. The Rittenhouse case, the Ahmaud Arbery Trial and sentencing the other day of the young man who raped 4 women and received no jail tIme. I don’t even recognize this country anymore.

Rittenhouse is found guilty of nothing. 2 people are dead.

Watching the man testify who shot and killed Ahmaud Arbery was sickening. He hunted and cornered Arbery and then he killed him.

The rapist who raped 4 young woman received probation. The rapist pleaded guilty to the charges. He received probation from the judge.

I’m disgusted and sickened.



Please do not bring politics into this thread.
 

doberman

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I am petrified for the future. We are in a period of history much like Germany in the years prior to WW2. Rallies, nationalist fervor, ludicrous propaganda, and scapegoats for the illnesses of the country. Instead of Jews, we have those scary immigrants and protestors. We have a political party that is immoral, craven, science and reality-resistant and will use anything it can to remain in power.

But the real problem is the gross inequity and ever widening gulf between the haves and have nots. And education, which can raise people up, is both under attack by and too expensive for the people who need it most.

It's a recipe for disaster.
 

Karl_K

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To the vast majority all 3 are a 30 second blurb on the news or a headline they skip online.
 

mom2dolls

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Yes, this country is crumbling. You cannot go to a movie, church, a restaurant or a concert without fearing a shooting. My daughter's very good friend was murdered while watching a movie while on a first date. There is no justice, true punishment for crimes against fellow humans!

Our young people are glued to devices, living in a pretend world that only exists on their phones, computers or ipads. They have no social skills, no idea how to have a conversation face to face. Children are being babysat by devices as early as a few months old.

Parents refuse to parent! Stop being your damn child's friend and parent for pete's sake! What happened to consequences? Cause and effect is lost in this modern society.

Sorry, end of rant. I will get off my soapbox.

One more thing... what the flock was a 17 year old doing with a dang AR15? If that was my boy, oh man!
 

doberman

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It's hard to fathom that there is a large segment of the population in this country who think it's perfectly cool to let a 17 year old kid own an assault rifle and take it out to play at a protest. Kyle R's parents ought to be in jail for stupidity and bad parenting. And I say this as someone whose son and husband own guns for hunting.

When KR arrived at the protest, gun in hand, he was greeted by the police and given a bottle of water. He was allowed to go home immediately after the shooting. When he turned himself in, the detectives interviewing him backed off when it became clear that he didn't understand his Miranda rights. Now tell me a 17 year old black kid would get such deferential handling.

And while we're not allowed to speak of things political it was totally unsurprising that 3 members of congress have offered KR a job as an intern.
 

ItsMainelyYou

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Looks like murder gets you a political internship tossup with an accused sex trafficker of minors or a man so vile he was disavowed by his entire family before he made an anime of himself killing a young woman and fellow Congressperson.


They're already talking about stacking bodies like cordwood, and why wouldn't they, apparently that's what we do here in MAGA land.
This was a sanction for violence, and many heard it as such. Expect more.
 

missy

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The short answer is yes. But the question and answer have remained the same for hundreds of years.


Sadly when T*** was in power we thought if we could only get him out and elect someone else (ie not T***) we would start climbing out of the hole. But it goes much deeper than that. These problems have been beneath the surface throughout the US’s history. Our two-party system is falling apart and both parties are only concerned (and have always only been concerned) with their own interests. In the end, it is often the country’s overall interests that are sacrificed.


From 1971 NYT article.
"Is America Falling Apart"


The Founding Fathers talked about this and set up a system where no one could get control for very long. Where one faction is never in power for too long. It is a balancing act. It is set up like this on purpose. This is the way it has always worked in the course of history. We see it only in a sliver of time and think everything is going to he** in a hand basket. But overall not much has really changed. Sadly. The Historical long view is what matters. In the short view we always think it is falling apart but in the long view I believe (I have to believe) we will be OK. There is always and will always be room for improvement. Does this time feel different? Yes. But each time in history has felt different to the people living and experiencing it.

We have been in flux since inception. For different reasons, for different seasons, but it is always changing and no one can predict the future. We do all we can to ensure a better future for the next generations to come.


I will add one comment. This is why I prefer animals to many (most) people. People suck but they have sucked throughout time. That's a fact. Period.
 

bludiva

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But the real problem is the gross inequity and ever widening gulf between the haves and have nots.

wasn't this the same problem pre-WW2? we're doomed to keep repeating history in some ways.

I agree w Missy, both parties are in the business of keeping themselves in office first and foremost. The people we pay to run this country for is can’t agree to take care of our basic needs, and now one half is feeling triumphant about getting a bill passed to fix dilapidated bridges etc— basic function of government. We’re in for a rough few years or decades.
 

doberman

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I only see one group of people doing anything and everything to stay in power. I see another group of people who got rid of a governor whose policies they liked, but was accused of sexual harassment. In the first group of people I mention there is one who has procured underage girls and crossed state lines. He's still in office. Only one party has a representative who made a cartoon that showed the murder of another representative and the president. In any company you'd be fired for doing this, but that representatve is still there, unbowed and unrepentant. Only one party has gerrymandered states to force a win. I could do on and on, but the reality is that the second group of people mentioned seem to be impervious to charges of any kind. So I don't believe the two groups use the same methods.

This is more than politics. It's a lack of education among the people. Democracy dies in darkness and to be without education is to be in the dark, where propaganda reigns. There is a large swath of primarily poorly educated white people with resentment toward what they perceive as the government. The result is more vigilantes among them.
 

MrsBlue

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I think the facade is crumbling. This country has been bad for some people (children, poor people, the mentally ill, people with health issues in general, native populations, other racial minorities) for a really long time but the internet and social media have made that fact hard to hide.
 

bludiva

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I only see one group of people doing anything and everything to stay in power. I see another group of people who got rid of a governor whose policies they liked, but was accused of sexual harassment. In the first group of people I mention there is one who has procured underage girls and crossed state lines. He's still in office. Only one party has a representative who made a cartoon that showed the murder of another representative and the president. In any company you'd be fired for doing this, but that representatve is still there, unbowed and unrepentant. Only one party has gerrymandered states to force a win. I could do on and on, but the reality is that the second group of people mentioned seem to be impervious to charges of any kind. So I don't believe the two groups use the same methods.

This is more than politics. It's a lack of education among the people. Democracy dies in darkness and to be without education is to be in the dark, where propaganda reigns. There is a large swath of primarily poorly educated white people with resentment toward what they perceive as the government. The result is more vigilantes among them.

i agree one party is more ruthless and shameless (and totally agree about education--hollowing out our public edu system has everything to do w/ this imho) but neither party has put the people first in a long time. it's like we don't know what a government that works for its citizens even looks like anymore.
 

yssie

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I think the facade is crumbling. This country has been bad for some people (children, poor people, the mentally ill, people with health issues in general, native populations, other racial minorities) for a really long time but the internet and social media have made that fact hard to hide.

This. Perfect summary of how I feel.
I’m feeling skeptical today.
 

doberman

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i agree one party is more ruthless and shameless (and totally agree about education--hollowing out our public edu system has everything to do w/ this imho) but neither party has put the people first in a long time. it's like we don't know what a government that works for its citizens even looks like anymore.

The problem is that whatever legislation the current party proposes which would be good for the American people the gerrymandering party opposes, just on principal. I can not agree that one group is as bad as the other because in my mind only one group is full of dangerous totalitarian nationalism.

And while every generation likes to think they are experiencing cataclysmic events, there is something markedly different about these times. We are currently in a civil war but it's being fought online and in the media. It pales in comparison to the turmoil of the Vietnam War. I have never seen elected officials act more crazy and dangerous. The conflict has been brewing for decades but it has now come to the surface.

An old curse states "May you live in interesting times"; and right now we are.
 

LilAlex

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Please do not bring politics into this thread.

This thread is politics.

But, yes.

Everything has been falsely "politicized." Every non-political everyday facet of life has been politicized.

Had a guy tell me yesterday that he was all set to "get the vaccine" and then "they" went and politicized it with mandates. Tried to diplomatically ask who's the idiot now, then. I mean the vaccine made perfect sense to you until someone started making it mandatory for others -- and now it is too politicized for you to protect yourself? I wish you could hear yourself, buddy.

I do have hope. I see my kids and their amazing friends and it's hard to imagine problems they can't fix.
 

Matata

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Literally the country is physically crumbling and I'm hoping that the newly passed infrastructure bill will help. If the social spending package passes, even in a reduced form which is the only way it's likely to pass, we can begin making small inroads into some of the problems leading to social rot in this country.

The core question for me is why are people so vulnerable to manipulation. Certainly social media plays a big part in spreading lies and conspiracies but what makes people easy targets. Whatever it is, it needs fixing.

I think one of the problems we have is that we are too free and lack collective common sense to handle the scale of our freedom. So yeah, I'm in favor of curtailing freedom of speech when that speech contains lies and conspiracy theories. The people who have the money and means (radio/print/TV/social media) to use those mediums to spread garbage need to have their privilege to do so revoked.

Freedom of religion needs to be less free. Tax-exempt status for churches and religious organizations should be revoked. Religious freedom needs to be confined to churches and homes. If one's religious belief means one cannot perform every aspect of a profession or job, one should be reassigned or fired. Own a business that won't provide a service based on a personal religious belief, lose the business. And most important, religious belief has no business informing public policy or establishment of law.

We need to demand civility and its practice across the board. I am beyond gobsmacked at passengers harming airline employees, at parents threatening school boards, at the whiny sniveling Gollums half the population of this nation has devolved into. Don't want CRT taught in schools because it might make your kid feel bad? Really?

Government as a whole -- I think our system of government is so broken the only fix is to let it collapse and start over.
 

doberman

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Wow.

If you can't see that this attitude is part of the problem, then you are part of the problem.

My attitude? My attitude is that white supremacist groups are assisted by lack of education in the populace. Like people who say they are opposed to critical race theory, but can't articulate what it is, they just know they're against it.
 

bludiva

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Wow.

If you can't see that this attitude is part of the problem, then you are part of the problem.

i think it could be phrased better but underinvesting in U.S. public education for the past half century or so is a HUGE part of the problem we're seeing today imho. people aren't taught critical thinking skills, practical life skills, or given opportunities to retrain for new careers when industries shift.

education, healthcare, infrastructure - basic things our govt should be addressing

and yes, the gerrymandering has to go. i don't know anyone who defends that practice except the politicians benefiting from it. should be illegal.
 

lilmosun

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If you look historically at world affairs, countries fall when the middle class disappears/gets squeezed widening the gap between the rich and the poor. Frustration/despair sets in along with people wanting to hold on to the power they have. The desire to take/maintain control and targeting/finding blame is intensified and people hear what they want to justify their actions. While we aren't there yet, this is the direction we've been going in and now it's being fueled/accelerated by social media.
 

oceanblue

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I grew up in a city that was a social experiment n the 1970's - 80's. We were taught in public school, that included a whole rainbow of children, that color did not matter. Everyone was equal, America was a melting pot. This was outside Washington, DC which is a very diverse area. This idea of color did not matter was ingrained in our curriculum, don't be judgmental.

Prejudice was the word we used. To be a racist meant you had actually acted on your prejudice. The films we watched in public school were absolutely horrific, images of concentration camps, hangings, you name it we saw it in school. But we looked at the future, everyone is equal.

I wanted social justice, equality and to be a professional volunteer. I was a Sociology major in college and have, most of the time, worked in nonprofit. Ran a welfare to work program. My take away from my major was that the oppressor can not liberate the oppressed. Help yes, understand through education. The opressed are responsible for educating and showing their equality. Having the oppressor give handouts/sympathy just perpetrates the problem. It is an act of suppression, those in power give to the lessors.

Should CRT be taught in school, sure, it is a point of view and has a lot of valid points. Is it the answer to the USA's problems, no.

Do I think the USA is crumbling, NO. We are not at war, there is no draft. We are discussing race on a open forum.
 

missy

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@doberman off topic but I love your new avatar! What a sweetie. :kiss2:


I will add ignorance and lack of education is behind many problems (all over the world).
No question education matters and makes a difference.
 

Matata

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My take away from my major was that the oppressor can not liberate the oppressed. Help yes, understand through education.

All they need to do is stop oppressing....
 
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