Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Do you feel entitled to know if others are vaccinated?

Do you ask others if they are vaccinated for Covid!

  • A. None of my business bc HIPAA

    Votes: 43 44.8%

  • B. Of course! I have to stay safe!

    Votes: 53 55.2%
  • Total voters
    96
foxinsox said:
OMG I was reading that article today and was SO mad! who says "oh I didn't realise I shouldn't travel" just because the system didn't put bright red signs up and stop them from booking? FFS! personal responsibility people.
Happy vaccination day for tomorrow. I hope it doesn't knock you around too much. And Happy Birthday for milestone birthday :)
Click to expand...


thank you

i dont think common sence is a prerequisite to getting into university but i feel bad for the other students in her proximity

the big day is next week
it kind of stuck up on me
im really only about 25 on the inside !

i have a sore shoulder- ive hurt it before - im thinking i should have the jap in that arm so ill have at least one good side for work on saturday ???

time is just flying
we are missing all the daffodils in lock down
 
No I do not feel entitled, not even interested or curious.

Here's how I roll.
I assume everyone is unvaccinated since it is possible they could be lying when they say they are.
Social pressure is a powerful thing; if fact IMO it's the main reason people do not get the vax.
I protect myself by severely limiting social contact, wearing N95 mask, staying 6 ft apart and when outside standing upwind of others, and hand washing.

The Delta variant is ruthless, and people vary.
I don't trust anyone's word.
I know my SO got the vax because we both did together.
 
Last edited:
kenny said:
I assume everyone is unvaccinated since it is possible they could be lying when they say they are.
Social pressure is a powerful thing; if fact IMO it's the main reason people do not get the vax.
Click to expand...

I would not have expected much of this. But I recently got news of a 25 year who will now need extensive rehab after recently coming out of a medically induced coma and ventilator. He then admitted that he hadn't actually gotten around to getting vaccinated after all.
 
kenny said:
No I do not feel entitled, not even interested or curious.

Here's how I roll.
I assume everyone is unvaccinated since it is possible they could be lying when they say they are.
Social pressure is a powerful thing; if fact IMO it's the main reason people do not get the vax.
I protect myself by severely limiting social contact, wearing N95 mask, staying 6 ft apart and when outside standing upwind of others, and hand washing.

The Delta variant is ruthless, and people vary.
I don't trust anyone's word.
I know my SO got the vax because we both did together.
Click to expand...

i agree Kenny
the only people you can trust are the people you share a home with
....just as well we dont have big families because families usually have at least one rouge rebellious black sheep to contend with
 
Generally speaking, I do not ask.

With breakthrough cases and declining efficacy against getting covid of vaccines over time, I am just as concerned about people's social circles/precautions as I am about vaccines. So with the absence of that knowledge, we physically distance and/or wear masks regardless of vaccination status.

My brother is vaccinated as is his son. However, given his son's school and social circle, my brother wears a mask when visiting my mom and I (and we do the same).

The one exception was when interviewing an aide to come help my mom part-time because of the very close and constant proximity she will have in helping my mother, it was a fair question imo. And even though vaccinated, the aide is expected to wear a mask when working (and my mom does the same).
 
I have asked my close friends and family but I don't ask other people. I have a friend who is fully vaccinated, very sick with Covid, in ER and waiting for an ICU bed. He has been in ER for 36 hours now. This is the 3rd person I personally know who is fully vaccinated and still contracted Covid.
 



The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is advisingeven vaccinated people to return to mask-wearing in indoor public spaces located in areas with higher rates of coronavirus infections. This guidance — prompted by concerns about the rapidly spreading delta variant — may cause many people to worry about going to indoor places where social distancing is not possible, such as a doctor’s office or a spa, especially if they might have to take off their masks.
In these situations, they might be wondering whether they can ask the potentially loaded question: “Are you vaccinated?”
“Not only do they have the legal right, but I think they have an obligation to their own health and safety to ask the question,” said Lawrence Gostin, faculty director of the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University. “It’s an entirely appropriate and logical question to ask if someone is going to be in very close, personal contact with you: whether they’ve been vaccinated.”


It is not a violation of the oft-cited HIPAA federal privacy law to ask your doctor or dentist or other health-care workers, as well as people who provide close-contact services, including hair stylists, aestheticians, massage therapists and physical trainers, whether they are vaccinated.
“It’s awkward, but it’s not illegal,” said Robert Gatter, a professor with the Center for Health Law Studies at Saint Louis University’s School of Law. “If they share it with you, that’s their choice.”
But, Gostin said, it’s important to remember that “you can’t force somebody to answer.”
Explaining HIPAA: No, it doesn’t ban questions about your vaccination status
Given the divided views about the coronavirus vaccines, combined with widespread confusion about health and privacy laws, it’s not surprising that many people feel uncertain about how to approach asking, experts said.
“We are navigating kind of a new etiquette as well as the new ethics in this context,” said Ruth Faden, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics and at the Bloomberg School of Public Health. “It’s possible to sort of reason our way through to what seems ethically okay to do and what seems problematic.”

The following tips may help you feel less awkward about asking to know someone’s vaccination status.

Understand the laws​

HIPAA includes provisions to protect a person’s identifying health information from being shared without their knowledge and consent, but it is not a prohibition on asking, experts said. What’s more, the law only applies to specific health-related entities, such as insurance providers, health-care clearinghouses, health-care providers and their business associates. It would, for example, be a violation of HIPAA if your doctor or insurance company did not obtain your consent before sharing your vaccination status with someone else.
Similarly, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which enforces federal workplace anti-discrimination laws, noted in a guidance that the Americans With Disabilities Act requires employers to maintain the confidentiality of employee medical information, including whether they’ve received a coronavirus vaccine. This means that, in most cases, an employer who is asked whether individual employees are vaccinated cannot answer that question.

But the fact that an employer can’t disclose information doesn’t mean you are barred from asking people directly about their vaccination status, Gatter said.
Gostin agreed. “It’s absolutely lawful and ethical and understandable from a deeply human point of view to want to know if the person that’s coming into close contact with you is vaccinated.”
Your employer can ask whether you’ve received the coronavirus vaccine — and even require it
There are also legal — and ethical — reasons those who are asked, especially health-care professionals, should answer honestly, experts said. People, regardless of their profession, could face legal consequences if they lie about their vaccination status, then infect others with the coronavirus, Gostin said.
Although the American Medical Association’s Code of Medical Ethics doesn’t specifically address whether physicians have a responsibility to disclose personal health information to their patients, it emphasizes the importance of honesty.

All health-care professionals “have an obligation as part of their role responsibilities to advance the interests of their patients and also to engage honestly and truthfully with their patients when the information that is being asked for is instrumental and useful for the patient,” Faden said. (Health-care workers can also ask patients whether they’ve been vaccinated, but they may still have ethical obligations to provide treatment, regardless of the answer.)
‘A tipping point’: Government officials, health groups move to require coronavirus vaccines for workers

Know what and how to ask​

It’s best to contact medical offices and service providers before any appointments to express your concerns, Gatter said. It’s fine to say, for example, that you are vaccinated and wouldn’t feel comfortable coming into close contact with anyone who is unvaccinated or unmasked. Then, he said, you can ask about the safety policies in place, such as vaccination and masking requirements, and how they are being enforced. Gatter also encouraged employers to inform employees about how they plan to address these questions, and ideally obtain consent from workers to publicly disclose general information about vaccination rates among staff or to make assurances that patrons won’t have contact with unvaccinated individuals.


As noted earlier, you can always directly ask individuals about their vaccination status, Gatter said. Be prepared to receive versions of the following answers, he said: “yes,” “no” or “I don’t want to tell you.”
It may be helpful, Faden said, to share your vaccination status first. When people disclose information about themselves, others will often respond in kind, she said. If someone doesn’t reciprocate unprompted, “I still think it is perfectly appropriate to say, ‘Would you be all right telling me if you’ve been vaccinated or not?’ ”
Most unvaccinated Americans believe coronavirus vaccine poses greater health risk than the disease, poll finds

Know when not to push​

If the person responds that they aren’t comfortable sharing their vaccination status, “I think you can’t press further,” Faden said. But Gostin said it’s okay to not be satisfied with a nonresponse. “It’s basically not answering in a polite way, but it’s still not answering,” he said.

In this situation, you’ll need to make a judgment call about how you want to proceed, experts said. Perhaps you feel comfortable continuing to see the person as long as there are other safety protocols in place. But, experts emphasized, you have no legal or ethical obligation to keep your appointment. “If the person is not forthcoming with the information, the patient or the client can refuse to be treated and seek treatment through another provider,” Gostin said.
If a person responds that they are vaccinated, you also have to consider whether they are being truthful. Though you can ask to see proof of vaccination, such as the vaccination record card issued by the CDC, experts cautioned against doing so, because it may suggest distrust, which can damage the relationship.
“Generally, I operate on the assumption that most people are people of good faith,” Faden said. “If they’re not vaccinated, they may not share that, but I don’t think most people are going to lie in that context.”

Be respectful​

Conversations about vaccination status can be sensitive, and it’s important to be respectful.
Vaccine conversations can be messy. Here’s how to talk about the shots.
Ask your questions politely, and frame them in the context of concerns about personal safety, Gostin said. This goes both ways: People who are asked, particularly health-care workers, “shouldn’t be aggrieved by the question as if it were an inappropriate question,” he said. “They should be compassionate.”


It’s not acceptable to become belligerent, hostile or personally offensive if someone chooses not to tell you whether they’ve been vaccinated, Faden said. But if you decide you aren’t comfortable being in close contact with someone while not knowing their vaccination status, you should be transparent about that and explain why you won’t be seeking their services anymore, Faden said.
“I don’t think it’s great to just disappear,” she said, adding: “Just because someone has decided not to be vaccinated doesn’t mean that they’ve forfeited their claim to decency in human interaction.”
 
This was never something I asked people previously and it won't be anything I start asking anyone any time soon.
 
I think "entitled" is not the word I would choose, but I think it's appropriate to ask vaccination status when planning a social event at this time. Often times people do not have safety conversations when we should be more open with these things, especially parents with kiddos, so that's the perspective I am coming from. For example, talking about how firearms in the home are stored (if a family has them), swimming pool safety, food allergies, whether the hosting family plans to drive anywhere (i.e. should I drop off an extra booster seat for the car).

When out and about in the world, I just behave like all the strangers around me are not vaccinated and potential carriers; I keep my mask on indoors, avoid crowded settings and keep interactions brief. At work I know my coworkers are vaccinated but when caring for patients i use appropriate PPE.

Edited to add: for family it was really important to me to know that my family members, especially the grandparents with health problems, were fully vaccinated so we could plan visits. Since I have kids too young to be vaccinated and I work in healthcare, I am concerned that, despite my best efforts, I could be at risk of exposing someone I love to COVID. Once my vulnerable family members were fully vaccinated we felt that the risk level was acceptable to be able to visit in person, because the chance of having a severe case of COVID was much lower for them. We also test and use precautions, of course.
 
Last edited:
I think people have huge misconceptions about WHY vaccination is recommended. It’s to stop people dying or becoming very very sick and filling up hospitals. It’s does NOT stop people either catching or spreading Covid.

I am on the Covid Committee at my workplace and we have many thousands of employees. We mandate fortnightly testing for all staff and track and record all positive test results. Over 75% of positive cases recorded are in vaccinated people. Almost our entire workforce is vaccinated. It doesn’t stop people catching the disease. The difference is that none of our vaccinated staff have ended up in the ICU.

Vaccinate to protect your healthcare system and medical infrastructure. Don’t imagine it will stop Covid spreading. It doesn’t. So whether someone is vaccinated or not shouldn’t concern you unduly. Worry about getting YOURSELF vaccinated so you don’t die if you catch it.
 
What do PSers think?

In our NYC apartment building one of the maintenance staff members was working in a shareholder's apartment and she (one of my closest friends so I got this info directly from her) asked if he was vaccinated. He said yes.

Turns out he lied. And he also lied to another shareholder. That we know of. There could be more.

Is this a fireable offense? Or just unethical behavior?

Legally I don't know and my DH (who is president of the coop board) is talking with the managing agent next week about this.

Personally I like L but feel the fact he lied to shareholders and did work in their apartment while they thought he was vaccinated is something he should be fired for. Not that he should be fired because he isn't vaccinated as that is not mandated. But that he lied giving the shareholders false info thereby gaining access to their apartment to do work. Possibly endangering them and their families.

What do you think?
 
For me the fact that he lied brings up questions about his honesty and integrity. If he’s in a position of trust with the residents, then outright lying clearly casts doubt on his suitability to be in the position. I would be furious to find that he’d been in my apartment and potentially exposed me and my loved ones. If the residents had known he wasn’t vaccinated, it’s unlikely they would‘ve allowed him to enter their home, he took that option away from them with his lies.

We’ve had to have several contractors in our home during the worst of the pandemic, and it was always on the basis that they sanitised their hands, wore gloves and were masked up. We were in a different room to wherever they were carrying out work, with the windows wide open. We then did not enter the room where they’d been working for several hours after they left. We assessed the risk of them being in our home to do essential work and took every precaution we could.
 
@missy I do wonder how it came out that the maintenance staff worker is actually not vaccinated -- did he admit it himself?

If the worker has admitted he is unvaccinated, then, yes, I do think he should be fired for cause.

There were several ways he could have chosen to answer the question "are you vaccinated?" i.e., "no" or "I consider that personal information" or "I need to check with my boss as to whether I must provide you with this information". He chose to lie, 2 separate occasions. Both times it was in connection with gaining access to and working inside shareholder apartments. This is unprofessional behavior, and he has proven himself to be untrustworthy.

If the worker has not admitted he is unvaccinated, and all of this is hearsay information, then perhaps your building's homeowner association needs go over the maintenance contracts and see whether you are within your rights to demand vaccination disclosure by staff workers and/or to demand only fully vaccinated staff workers service your building.
 
marymm said:
@missy I do wonder how it came out that the maintenance staff worker is actually not vaccinated -- did he admit it himself?

If the worker has admitted he is unvaccinated, then, yes, I do think he should be fired for cause.

There were several ways he could have chosen to answer the question "are you vaccinated?" i.e., "no" or "I consider that personal information" or "I need to check with my boss as to whether I must provide you with this information". He chose to lie, 2 separate occasions. Both times it was in connection with gaining access to and working inside shareholder apartments. This is unprofessional behavior, and he has proven himself to be untrustworthy.

If the worker has not admitted he is unvaccinated, and all of this is hearsay information, then perhaps your building's homeowner association needs go over the maintenance contracts and see whether you are within your rights to demand vaccination disclosure by staff workers and/or to demand only fully vaccinated staff workers service your building.
Click to expand...

Yes he admitted he is not vaccinated. :(
Very disappointing all around. And so unethical.
Of course he has the Union support so I’m sure he can’t be touched.
 
I would fire him for lying, definitely.

Is he an employee of the coop, or of a service that is hired? Just wondering, because if residents won't let him into their homes to do maintenance, how can he do that part of his job? If he works for a service, then I would think they could move him. If he works for the coop, can't they require vaccination if they don't fire him?
 
missy said:
Yes he admitted he is not vaccinated. :(
Very disappointing all around. And so unethical.
Of course he has the Union support so I’m sure he can’t be touched.
Click to expand...

Is he represented by SEIU 32BJ? If so, see contract MOA link. Under 4.d. if he did not comply, there's grounds for disciplinary action and under 6.a. Employer is to provide masks with the implication that he should have been wearing a mask. If he was not wearing a mask, there's grounds for disciplinary action.

 
Last edited:
Thanks @Austina @Lookinagain @marymm and @Matata.

@Austina yes, I feel the same. Huge betrayal. He’s worked for us for over ten years. He had no reason to lie. Getting vaccinated is not mandated for the job. So it’s especially egregious since he had nothing to fear for his livelihood.

@Lookinagain he is our employee. Shareholders of the co-op.
He has a very strong contract and a very strong union backing him. We cannot legally require employees to get vaccinated. Luckily everyone but two are and hopefully one is getting vaccinated soon. L says he is planning on getting vaccinated but I do not trust him now at all.

@Matata thanks for the link. I appreciate it. I’ll check it out. Yes that’s the union. I’m almost sure he was wearing a mask but I’ll ask my girlfriend to make sure. We provide all necessary supplies for our employees including masks.
 
@missy I think the scenario you mention reflects why I posted this question in the first place. Tbh. I don’t think it’s an offense bc what right does anyone have to ask if someone else is vaccinated? I work with 3000 other people at a school and I am not entitled to ask them if they are vaccinated. I think your friend should have asked whom ever oversees the maintenance dept to send only vaccinated employees over to their apt but not much else they can do. I wish I could stipulate that all my students and colleagues disclose to
Me if they are vaccinated but legally, not my right to know. So here we are—always wear a mask and don’t trust anyone. Especially bc vaccinated people can spread Covid too. I would not seek to fire this person but would set new policies for the future. Although a lot of posters here are saying that knowing vax status has nothing to do with HIPPA so what the heck do I know. Just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
Here (France) people seem to ask quite freely. Vaccination rate is at 81.7 % for everyone over 12 though, and vaccination is much less politicised than in the US.

So the question doesn't also mean you are trying to draw any conclusions about the other person's political beliefs etc etc.

I personally don't ask people randomly, but everyone I let into my home (masked) I either know for sure is vaccinated or is a contractor and we'll both wear kn95 and I keep windows and doors open creating a draft. I have kn95 handy for contractors who show up in surgical masks - many of them work outside most of the time, so it's not intentional on their part when we realize they have to go inside to check something.

Has been working ok for us so far.
 
At work, we need to know who is and who isn't; management asks on all of our behalf and sets policy around it.

In the wild, I assume those wearing masks and stepping aside so we can pass with a wide margin are vaccinated. Those without masks are assumed to be unvaccinated. Paradoxical, that. Silly and sad, too.
 
nala said:
@missy I think the scenario you mention reflects why I posted this question in the first place. Tbh. I don’t think it’s an offense bc what right does anyone have to ask if someone else is vaccinated? I work with 3000 other people at a school and I am not entitled to ask them if they are vaccinated. I think your friend should have asked whom ever oversees the maintenance dept to send only vaccinated employees over to their apt but not much else they can do. I wish I could stipulate that all my students and colleagues disclose to
Me if they are vaccinated but legally, not my right to know. So here we are—always wear a mask and don’t trust anyone. Especially bc vaccinated people can spread Covid too. I would not seek to fire this person but would set new policies for the future. Although a lot of posters here are saying that knowing vax status has nothing to do with HIPPA so what the heck do I know. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, the issue is that he lied @nala. Not that he isn’t vaccinated. Big distinction. IMO.
 
missy said:
Respectfully, the issue is that he lied @nala. Not that he isn’t vaccinated. Big distinction. IMO.
Click to expand...
I get that. That’s the point of this thread. Are we entitled to know? As in. Did your friend have the right to ask, which set his lie in motion. I honestly don’t know what to think anymore about this. Not being combative just really expressing the confusion that we are all living in at the moment.
 
Last edited:
nala said:
I get that. That’s the point of this thread. Are we entitled to know? As in. Did your friend have the right to ask, which set his lie in motion. I honestly don’t know what to think anymore about this.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting piece.

www.curbed.com

Buildings Want to Require Vaccinations. The Doormen’s Union Says No.

The union, along with many buildings, are encouraging doormen to get the jab. But requiring it for the job is where it draws the line.
www.curbed.com www.curbed.com


FWIW We have asked all our employees and they have answered. So we know all but two are vaccinated.
 
@nala when I was seeing my patients I was required to get and show proof I had received the flu vaccine yearly. Also I was required to get the TB test yearly. And so on and so forth. This is the way it works to protect others.
 
missy said:
@nala when I was seeing my patients I was required to get and show proof I had received the flu vaccine yearly. Also I was required to get the TB test yearly. And so on and so forth. This is the way it works to protect others.
Click to expand...

As a public school teacher, we have never been required to get the flu shot. So I guess no once cares in the public sector if we are protected. Also. I have to wonder. If you are entitled to ask, are you also entitled to request proof of a vaccination? To what extent are you entitled? Bc if that’s the case, cut to the chase next time and ask to see proof of vaccination to prevent lying.
 
nala said:
As a public school teacher, we have never been required to get the flu shot. So I guess no once cares in the public sector if we are protected. Also. I have to wonder. If you are entitled to ask, are you also entitled to request proof of a vaccination? To what extent are you entitled?
Click to expand...

I think it’s wrong not to protect teachers and others. Imo it makes no sense to require some who work with people get the flu vaccine as an example and not require all who work with others to get it.

And yes. IMO proof needs to be shown if vaccines are mandated. As we all know people lie.
 
Employers are legally permitted to ask employees if they are vaccinated. I don't think that they can ask why not, if the answer is no, at least they can't in my company, but they can ask for a yes or no answer. So if the maintenance person is an employee of the co-op and the shareholders are all owner's and therefore his employer, they should be permitted to ask in my opinion.
Lying about their status is a separate and distinct question and I think most employers can generally fire an employee for lying, but the union affiliation may change that general rule.
 
Last edited:
missy said:
I think it’s wrong not to protect teachers and others. Imo it makes no sense to require some who work with people get the flu vaccine as an example and not require all who work with others to get it.

And yes. IMO proof needs to be shown if vaccines are mandated. As we all know people lie.
Click to expand...

In NYC schools we had to upload proof of vaccination to a portal, no proof, and you're off payroll.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top