Do you ever just want to give up?

[JenStone]

And just end it?

Lately I''m just so fed up with the excuses his family has been causing. I''m starting to focus on all the negatives and wonder why I''m even with him.

Don''t get me wrong - I love him. But some examples of things that have been really bothering me about him lately:

1. His family. His father STILL hasn''t given him an answer on how much money he needs. His mother is a demanding control freak. His brother is selfish. And I''m a firm believer that a marriage isn''t just about two people - it''s the joining of two families. Can I stand to be their family for the rest of my life?

2. There are still some things he keeps from me. For example, when he gets anything in the mail, I''m not allowed to open any of his stuff even if I know what it is. Of course I want to respect his privacy and would never go through his mail to snoop. However, just the fact that I''m not allowed to touch anything, even if I know its contents, makes me at least a bit suspicious. Just last week, he received a phone call from his brother asking him to call his parents. When he did, he talked for about an hour and although I don''t speak Chinese, I could tell that it was a serious conversation. When I asked him if anything was wrong, he said, "We just need to wait." Wait for what?!? When I probed him, he became defensive and told me that even his brother''s fiance doesn''t know - why should I?

3. He always says, "We should..." (take a trip, go to a restaurant we read about, go to a play, etc) but more often than not, it doesn''t happen. This is half my fault too but I hate how he never takes the initiative to do the things he/we want to.


These reasons, along with all the pressure we''ve been receiving lately, have been driving me crazy! Maybe I''m just PMSing. I''m just so confused and frustrated right now.

 

[whenharrymetsally]

Hey Jenstone,

Im sorry you are feeling this way....I do get fustrated too. My situation has some similarities. Not with the b/f but my issues with the famiily. His older sister hates my guts and is constantly jealous of our life and the fact that i have a better relationship with her mother than she does. She''s always saying nasty things in front of me and stabbing me in the back. I honestly and truly hated her for the longest time. I''ve contemplated whether or not i can live with having this person in my life for the rest of my life and to be frank, although you "marry into the family" it is HE who you love and who you want to spend the rest of your life with. I''m lucky that my b/f also knows that his older sister is a freak and tries to protect me whenever he can, but she''s sneaky..she always says things to me when he''s not around!!!! I''ve also come to the conclusion that anybody who has to put me down and act out in jealousy is not worth my time and effort. I''m better than that and now whenever she says anything i just pretend i don''t hear her...

Have you talked to your b/f about his actions? I know sometimes men are dense (no offence to all the men out there)...but some men just don''t know they say things or do things that hurt us unless we let them know? Maybe explain to him how it makes you feel and it might help?

I hope things get better! and Hang in there!

 

[MustangFan]

I think you''ll find this with multicultural backgrounds. My father is from Germany and still to this day, has German conversation in front of my mother, no matter how many times she''s told him he''s rude, since she doesn''t speak german. He''ll even talk about my mother and I''ll tell him I know you are talking about her and I know what you''re saying. I don''t know why sometimes foreign people sometimes have no manners, maybe because we are brought up differently in the United States? Regardless if your b/f was born here or not, it''s rude to exclude you from conversations if he wants to be apart of the family.

The mail thing... my ex was the same way, he was stubborn and didn''t want me going through his mail, so I guess sometimes it''s a quirk with some people. I open my boyfriend''s mail and he doesn''t have a problem with it, I even ask him if I can first, because I know some people just don''t like it.

I feel for you though, you need to bring these things up, it''s not good. I agree, you marry the family as well and it doesn''t seem like there is a good relationship there, there will always be confict with family first. They are probably from the old school and will never consider you apart of the family as far as family discussions go. The money for your ring is yours too and you should have a say on how much you want to help them with, you are apart of his life if they like it or not. My father promised my aunt a long time ago that he''d help her with a down payment on her house before he met my mother, well when my mother came into the picture he never consulted her about it, and my mother was very hurt. My mother brought this up to my aunt and she didn''t see it that way, he made a promise to me and that''s that. To this day my mother still brings it up. she''s bitter
me and b/f both have Americanized backgrounds so family is more distant, his mother is a little pushy, but they are not involved THAT much in your lives that it would be a problem.

I can''t really give you advice, but I''d say definitely try to talk about it and these are my experiences...

 

[ladykemma]

jen is there any way you can get your ring NOW? or, seriously, i have been quietly following your story for some time. do you really want to marry your in laws? are they going to move in with you too?

i would nip this in the bud. i know it's cultural, but really.

edited to add: family first, but where do you draw the line. he is putting them before you. is this the way it's going to be?

 

[risingsun]

You are going to be his family. Which family will be his priority, his parents or his wife? This will not improve after marriage. Please talk with him now about setting limits and boundaries with his parents. I, also, have been following your story and wish you well.

 

[Mara]

Date: 4/14/2007 7:22:39 PM
Author: risingsun
You are going to be his family. Which family will be his priority, his parents or his wife? This will not improve after marriage. Please talk with him now about setting limits and boundaries with his parents. I, also, have been following your story and wish you well.

I totally agree with this. It seems at times to be hard to separate mentally the family they were raised with and the one they marry into or more clearly, the person they marry becomes their family or should in my opinion. That doesn''t mean you don''t still belong to the other family, but it would drive me nuts if my husband chose his family over me or put their wishes above mine or anything like that. I am immensely close to my family and we see them all the time and they are a huge part of our lives, but I would never put their needs over my husband''s because HE is my primary family now. And if we have kids THAT is my most important priority.

I believe that when you marry someone you do marry their family as well though...especially if you live near them. So it is something to consider. You can adore and love your boyfriend or mate to the end of the earth, but not be able to deal with their family and/or possibly how they relate to their family, and if that other family is a big part of your lives then especially it''s something to think about....you will be dealing with it for the rest of your life. Doesn''t mean it won''t get better but definitely think about it.

 

[JenStone]

I spoke to him about this today because it was bothering me so much, and he finally opened up.

He said that even his own father is vague with details, but the gist of it is that during the Asian financial crisis, his family suffered a pretty large hit (which I already knew...they lost stocks, real estate, etc). However, when his father tried to start a new business, I guess the banks took notice and they informed him that there are still unpaid debts to be made to financial institutions. They''ve been trying their best to negotiate and such, and right now, they''re waiting to hear the final number.

His brother isn''t willing to help much, because he is the second son and says he already has financial commitments (he bought an apt last year so he says his mortgage payments are more important than my bf''s rent. And his wedding is coming up in July. This part still p*sses me off a bit, because he makes so much more money than my boyfriend and he makes it seem like his fiancee deserves more than me because they''re official, while we''re not).

I asked my boyfriend if there is a chance that he will have to give up his entire savings, and he said there is a slight possibility, but probably not.

Obviously I was very upset to hear this. But then I tried to put myself in his shoes. I''m the oldest of two girls, and if anything were every to happen to my parents, I would be willing to give up my savings too.

I guess there is a bit of cultural difference, because when I brought this up to my best friend, who is also Asian, she said that she can understand. Family comes first, and in his family''s eyes, I''m still and outsider especially since we''re not officially engaged yet.

As for opening up more, my boyfriend promised me that he will share everything with me when we are married. He said if there is certain information that should only be shared between family, and he did not want me to worry or be scared off.

However, my boyfriend also told me that although our engagement has been pushed back, he hopes to propose before July, as he''s been saving extra money ever since he found out about his parents'' financial situation back in January. And although we can definitely get a smaller diamond now, I''m unfortunately one of the super-sentimental types who would rather wait for the perfect ring now than upgrade down the road.

Several of you seem concerned that if he''s putting his family first, he will always put them before me, even after marriage. However, I knew this getting into the relationship and I feel the same way about my family. So it does not bother me much. What bothered me was his not willing to tell me the story and my wanting to know what is going on.

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I feel a lot better after having spoken to my boyfriend and right now, we are just crossing our fingers and hoping that the banks will be reasonable.

 

[bee*]

Hey Jen, glad you feel better after your talk. Just make sure its 100% what you want. I would be a bit worried if he wasnt telling me everything now, as I''d like to know all before I marry him, but if you''re happy, then that''s whats important! Hopefully your engagment comes soon!

 

[anchor31]

To answer your initial question, yes, I can get pretty scared sometimes... My FI has an abusive father and a control-freak mother, so it''s scary to think that they will be my in-laws. I was pretty freaked out about it recently, to the point where I wondered if I really did want to marry him, but I realized it would be worst to not have him as my husband than to have his parents as in-laws. I talked to him about my fears and he assured me that I would always come first... I wouldn''t marry him if that wasn''t the case. As someone''s wife I would never accept to be my husband''s second priority, cultural differences or no.

As bee said, make sure it really is what you want. If it is, good luck and best wishes to both of you!

 

[FarFarAway]

Coming from a Chinese background, and being a LIW, I completely and utterly understand everything you AND your fiance is going through.

For the cultural part, its hard for my SO to understand why taking trips to see him (we are LDR) is seen as time away from my family. His parents are very understanding and he has many other siblings so they don''t seem to "care" as much if he goes away from a few weeks. For me, the only child, its important to my parents that they will always be first in my eyes, or at least one of the top.

 

[JenStone]

I had a long talk with my mother about this. She obviously become very upset - not at my boyfriend, but at his parents. She went on and on about how you shouldn''t start a business when you''re not familiar with the market/product (her and my father own a successful business so they should know), how even if you made a mistake or fell into financial hardship through no fault of your own, you shouldn''t expect your children to bail you out - why can''t they get a loan instead?

She said she understood that he''s the oldest son, etc, but she doesn''t understand how they can expect so much from him, sacrificing my happiness along the way.

So I had another talk with my boyfriend this morning about priorities. I asked him after we''re married, would he put me or his family first? And after we have kids, where would they fit in? At first he said he would put us all on the same level, but then after thinking for a bit, he said he would put me first then his parents. After kids are born, it would be kids, me, then his family....he added that this is what his father had done and he wants to emulate that.

Then I asked him if he heard anything from his father and he said they''re still waiting.

He still doesn''t know when or how much they''ll need.

His younger brother is getting married at the end of July...and I told my bf that if we''re not engaged by then, I don''t want to go to the wedding. Am I being unreasonable about this? I don''t want to go because I know all his family will be asking when we''re getting married (although we''ve been together the longest), and no doubt giving me pity looks. I won''t know anyone at the wedding anyway, aside from his relatives. Plus my boyfriend will be busy with best man duties.

Sorry for the long ramble....

 

[poptart]

I''m sorry you''re going through this. I understand there is a cultural aspect in this situation, but I still worry about where his priorities lie. First, you have to wait until marriage before anything will change, and secondly, he said he would put you, the family, and the kids all on the same level before changing his answer later on; that answer included kids, you, then parents. I guess what I am getting at is that saying something is different than doing it. If my DH had not shown me before we got engaged and married that I was going to come first, I honestly would not have married him. I wouldn''t have been able to just go in hoping things would change after a whole lifetime of DH living this way. If it were me, I would need to see some change quite soon in order to have faith that things would be better later on. I don''t think this shows a lack of trust, but rather holding someone to their word and expecting actions over mere talking. Has he tried standing up to his parents and basically telling him everything he thinks? I have a feeling this would not be received well, but at least it would all be in the open. Best of luck!

*M*

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

This is totally OT, but Marian, your ring is absolutely breathtaking!

Jenstone, I too have been following your story and I''m so sorry you have to deal with these issues. Unfortunately, unless your bf is willing to estrange himself from his family you''re going to be marrying them too. This isn''t always the case but in this instance it sounds like they''re SO close that it will always be an issue. Best of luck!

 

[JenStone]

Date: 4/19/2007 3:41:44 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
This is totally OT, but Marian, your ring is absolutely breathtaking!


Jenstone, I too have been following your story and I''m so sorry you have to deal with these issues. Unfortunately, unless your bf is willing to estrange himself from his family you''re going to be marrying them too. This isn''t always the case but in this instance it sounds like they''re SO close that it will always be an issue. Best of luck!

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Hudson_Hawk - the funny thing is, they''re not that close. There are instances where they go for months without speaking to each other. He just feels that it''s an OBLIGATION.

 

[anchor31]

Date: 4/19/2007 3:37:17 PM
Author: poptart
I''m sorry you''re going through this. I understand there is a cultural aspect in this situation, but I still worry about where his priorities lie. First, you have to wait until marriage before anything will change, and secondly, he said he would put you, the family, and the kids all on the same level before changing his answer later on; that answer included kids, you, then parents. I guess what I am getting at is that saying something is different than doing it. If my DH had not shown me before we got engaged and married that I was going to come first, I honestly would not have married him. I wouldn''t have been able to just go in hoping things would change after a whole lifetime of DH living this way. If it were me, I would need to see some change quite soon in order to have faith that things would be better later on. I don''t think this shows a lack of trust, but rather holding someone to their word and expecting actions over mere talking. Has he tried standing up to his parents and basically telling him everything he thinks? I have a feeling this would not be received well, but at least it would all be in the open. Best of luck!

*M*

I have to agree with Poptart here. I think it''s great progress that he''s at least said it, but I think it''s even more important to support that statement with his actions. My FMIL threw a tantrum after we got engaged and FI stood up for me. She threw another tantrum because her dear son wasn''t putting her first and it wasn''t about her anymore, but he stood his ground. If he hadn''t and had just say "yes mom", I would have call off the engagement. It probably wasn''t what FMIL wanted, but that argument strengthened our relationship because I saw that I didn''t have to worry about him not putting me, as his future wife and family, first.

Good luck again!

 

[risingsun]

Date: 4/19/2007 3:41:44 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
This is totally OT, but Marian, your ring is absolutely breathtaking!

Jenstone, I too have been following your story and I''m so sorry you have to deal with these issues. Unfortunately, unless your bf is willing to estrange himself from his family you''re going to be marrying them too. This isn''t always the case but in this instance it sounds like they''re SO close that it will always be an issue. Best of luck!

Thank you, Hudson_Hawk. That was so sweet of you to say

To Jenstone...I just want you to know that I''m thinking about you and wishing you well in this difficult situation.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/15/2007 4:24:01 AM
Author: JenStone


As for opening up more, my boyfriend promised me that he will share everything with me when we are married. He said if there is certain information that should only be shared between family, and he did not want me to worry or be scared off.

Uh....no, no, no and NO.

Baloney. Hogwash. What other words could I use which aren''t expletives?

You fully intend to marry each other. This "we aren''t engaged yet" business isn''t jiving with me. THIS is the time you need to be communicating if there is information to be shared...not AFTER you are married.

Look, I''m Korean and I understand all this family business. But from what I have read, you are Korean American. And even though the unit trumps over individuality in our native culture, we are also American and your happiness will come from the way you are wired...which is predominantly AMERICAN.

He doesn''t want to worry you or scare you off? If you ask me, you should be worried. You should have the all the info so you can decide whether you are scared off. He''s witholding info from you that is important in helping you make one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Money is the biggest reason why newly married couples fight/divorce. My guess is family is up there as another reason. Your bf''s situation has both those covered. Lack of communication - also a big reason. Hm. Strike three?

I''m not trying to be harsh. I''ve followed your story and really do wish you the best. The question here is what is the best for YOU?

 

[Independent Gal]

I agree with T''gal. I''d be really worried to marry someone who wouldn''t give me the straight goods on stuff that would seriously affect my happiness and well being. And I''d want to know that BEFORE we were married. You don''t want to feel like he trapped you into something you''re not comfortable with. And not telling you stuff until after you''re married is kind of what that would be.

 

[firebirdgold]

I have to say that I don''t have a good feeling about it either. You might want to reconsider marrying him. Don''t marry someone you have doubts about, so if you can even write a post about wanting to give up sometimes... you probably should.

I''m reluctant to be so negative to a LIW ... but I don''t want to read your posts in a few months and wish I had given my honest opinion now. if you see what I mean.

 

[NYCsparkle]

i think you should really think about your situation. if you are both committed then why should you have to wait until you are married to have him talk to you about everything?--red flag. he should be able to talk to you about everything now. communication is the key to a relationship regardless of if you are married or not. he sounds too secretive and that will potentially lead to a relationship disaster. money issues should be discussed front and center now, because when you are married there shouldn''t be any surprises in this department---imagine coming home from your hm and he says oh by the way we are in serious debt. my friend almost lost her house because she didn''t ask her DH about finances. she assumed that all was well. sit down and discuss all money aspects before you decide to get married. don''t assume all will be ok. its better to discuss it before you are engaged as well. i wonder if you will ever be first in his life. his parents seem to have a really strong hold on him. if you are still considered an outsider, then chances are you''ll always be treated as such. keep us posted and voice all of your opinions to him now. it may save you from a mistake or heartache later on.

 

[emilina22]

i agree with NYC....you guys shoud be able to talk to each other about anything...if you dont communicate now then how will you later after your married...communication is key and there shouldnt be any huge surprises after your married i wouldnt want any big surprises after im married....i kinda went through the same thing with the family issue...my boyfriend comes from a family of 19 brothers and sisters (one passed away so now theres 1 and i had to get all of them to accept me and that was not an easy thing to do becaue we started dating when i was 15 and in his family people dont date for more than a year before they get married and at 15 i was not ready to get married so the majority of them thought i was just messin around with their brother and i wasnt...over the years they all came around but one thing has not changed...the relationship that he has with them...i have still to fully accept that i will not ALWAYS be first in his life...there will be times when his family is before me.....when they have fiancial problems he is the one that they turn to ...there was even a time when his brother was dating this one HORRIBLE GIRL everyone hated her casue she was a pure witch....she was horrible and this girl convinced his brother to get money off of my boyfriend becasue she didnt want his brother to waste his own..dumb i know..but family is family and he gave him what he needed... so even when they arent at their best the relationship that he has with his brothers wont change even with me around...and yes his brother did break up with her and she is now married to a guy more than 10 years he senior....when they have otehr problems there he is again...hes the brother everyone wants to spend time with and i needto udnerstand that itsnot hard but i think over time it gets better one way to look at it is that when your married hes all yours and priorities do change so now while your not married the family wants as much time iwth him as they can get...

dont worry things will get better you just need to be strong and try to get him to open up and just keep working at it...and hey were all here for you if you need a vent!

 

[surfgirl]

I''m not Asian but I work in Asia alot and what you''re describing is a huge cultural difference. He''s the first born son. He gets ALL the responsibility for his parent. Period. End of story. Sadly, unless he stands up to his brother and gets him to kick in his fair share, I''m afraid he''s stuck with this responsibility, according to his cultural background. And yes, he''s being totally honest with you about the "chain of importance" in most of Asia, which is kids first, then wife, then his family. Although sometimes the wife does get demoted, depending on whether or not she''s provided a male child or not. I''ve known women who''ve only had girls and they''re not treated very well.

All this isn''t to scare you, just to re-confirm what others have already said. You know, he''s not the only guy out there. I know you love him but maybe you both should try some couples counseling now, before getting engaged, to see if you can successfully work through some of this before it''s too late.

 

[JenStone]

What an emotional weekend!

Thank you everyone for your advice and well wishes. We had another LONG talk this weekend. After a lot of tears (from both me and him...I''ve NEVER seen him cry before!), I really feel that we made a lot of progress and I''m now more convinced than ever that I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him.

It turns out the only things he''s ever kept from me are:

1. Things his parents SPECIFICALLY asked him not to tell me. In this case, the details regarding their financial situation. His parents won''t even tell HIM all the details, the reason being that they don''t want him to worry. But he did tell me everything that they''ve told him. And he added that his parents think that if my parents (or I) find out about their financial troubles, they will not let me marry him. Talk about old-fashioned thinking! They don''t want to keep it from me or my family forever; they want to try to work things out first. If it didn''t work out, then they would''ve told us.

2. He confessed that when he told his mother that I didn''t want to have a Chinese wedding, she started crying. He said that broke his heart and explained that having a Chinese banquet means that much to them. And since then, he''s been calling around to restaurants, caterers, etc all by himself to try to figure out a compromise to the whole western/Korean/Chinese wedding banquet situation. I asked him why he didn''t tell me - and he answered that he knows how I am (I tend to get very emotional and worry too much sometimes) and he just wanted to figure out a solution by himself. I guess he gets that from his parents.

At this point I started laughing and asked him how he started planning our wedding reception without even having proposed. And what if I didn''t like his solution? What would he have done then? And I think that really opened his eyes.

He said that from now on, if his parents ask him not to tell me certain things, he''s going to tell them, "We plan on getting married so I don''t see why I can''t tell her."

In terms of our wedding, he''s different from most guys in that HE''s been thinking and dreaming of his wedding since he was little. And in his dreams, he always envisioned some sort of a Chinese ceremony. Because it means that much to him, I''m going to try to compromise at least a bit.

We have also agreed to start couples counseling to sort through our communication issues. I know that I''m not the most talkative person either and I tend to clam up more often than not. And I''m not too vocal about my feelings. I really think that counseling will help us.

One last thing - he asked me if I will still wait for him if his parents do end up needing all that money. I said of course I will - after having this talk and deciding to go to couples counseling, getting engaged doesn''t seem to be such a priority anymore.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Independent Gal]

Yay! Good luck with the counseling Jen! Keep us posted.

 

[JenStone]

Thanks, Independent Gal! I also want to add that once of the things we''re planning on working on during therapy is the communication issue within his family. I mean, if his parents are keeping things from him, it''s no wonder that he''s like this. I also want to emphasize that his parents would never ask him to go into debt for them, and he will not either. It''s one thing if you give money you have saved up (even if it was intended for something else) and it''s another to give money you don''t have.

Regarding the situation with his brother, I actually am starting to understand why he can''t give up his share of money - it''s because he''s getting married in July and he has signed contracts with this vendors which he cannot back out on.

Like emilina22, I will not ALWAYS be first in his life. But he is not ALWAYS first in my life either, just most of the time. And I''m happy to be first in his life most of the time too.

Having this talk with him over the weekend made me realize that I needed to put things in perspective: if I were in his situation where my parents needed help, I would''ve done the same thing. I was being immature in whining that I wasn''t getting my $10k+ ring when just a promise would suffice. I even brought up getting engaged without a ring to him and he said he''d like to wait until he gets the final word from his parents before we make that decision.

Oh, about #3 on my complaints list, we talked about that too. He took me on a romantic picnic on Sunday and we''re planning a weekend getaway to Maine.

Again, thank you everyone. Sometimes I really do make things worse than it is in my head. But I''m glad that I had a chance to vent and in doing so, I was able to verbalize everything to my bf as well.

 

[anchor31]

I''m glad to hear things are clearing up. Good for you for going in counselling, that''s something I really believe in.

 

[NYCsparkle]

i''m glad you were able to clear up a lot of issues and focus on getting your relationship back on track. communication is always the key...hooray for a romantic getaway!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/18/2007 11:26:26 PM
Author: FarFarAway
Coming from a Chinese background, and being a LIW, I completely and utterly understand everything you AND your fiance is going through.

For the cultural part, its hard for my SO to understand why taking trips to see him (we are LDR) is seen as time away from my family. His parents are very understanding and he has many other siblings so they don''t seem to ''care'' as much if he goes away from a few weeks. For me, the only child, its important to my parents that they will always be first in my eyes, or at least one of the top.

I find cultural differences interesting... my husband is mexican and his family has very intense family bonds and loyalty, but maybe not as much as what you describe. His mom got a bit interfering before we married and I took dh for a walk 2 days before we married and asked him point blank if he ever came to a point where he had to choose between me and his family, who would he choose? He said me. Which is a good thing because I knew if he said his family or even hesitated I wouldn''t marry him. Not that I don''t love my parents, but I''ve always thought of birds... when the baby bird is ready to leave the nest it goes off, finds another bird, and makes its *own* nest. You don''t see mama birds squacking to their offspring, get back in this nest, that bird isn''t your real family LOL I see it more as paying it forward than paying it back... creating a new foundation for my own little birdies who will one day leave the nest and find their own way as well.

 

[SparkleIllinois]

JenStone I''m so glad that things are looking way up for you right now. I''ve been following your posts and I was sad when you were sad! Hooray for patience and understanding!

 

[anchor31]

Date: 4/25/2007 3:59:24 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

I find cultural differences interesting... my husband is mexican and his family has very intense family bonds and loyalty, but maybe not as much as what you describe. His mom got a bit interfering before we married and I took dh for a walk 2 days before we married and asked him point blank if he ever came to a point where he had to choose between me and his family, who would he choose? He said me. Which is a good thing because I knew if he said his family or even hesitated I wouldn''t marry him. Not that I don''t love my parents, but I''ve always thought of birds... when the baby bird is ready to leave the nest it goes off, finds another bird, and makes its *own* nest. You don''t see mama birds squacking to their offspring, get back in this nest, that bird isn''t your real family LOL I see it more as paying it forward than paying it back... creating a new foundation for my own little birdies who will one day leave the nest and find their own way as well.

Cehra, that has to be the best analogy ever. It''s cute, funny and touching! I will definitely tell FI so we can use this piece of wisdom with our mothers if needed (his certainly does)...