Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Do you drink the PS "ideal cut" Kool-Aid or ...

Dancing Fire

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
do you have your own preferences (range/specs) for MRB?

I'd love a well cut MRB but some specs might be outside the PS "ideal box"

I wouldn't mind a little extra depth (up to 62%) if the stone come with a high crown (15.5-15.9%) and a small 54-55% table.
Color range ...G/H
Clarity range ...VS2-SI1 "if eye clean"
min crown height preferences is 15.4% with a max of 56% table.
pavil depth 42.8-43%

If I hit the lottery I'll go for a E/F VS1 stone.
 
I have my own priorities. If money were no object, I might raise the bar on a few things, but clarity and spread are most important to me. I compromised on color and cut. I have had some issues with contrast of my L color with the G-H melee, but I loved the diamond before it was set and I still love the diamond.

ETA: I would never go below VS1 in clarity, and I am flexible on color. When we were looking at diamonds I wanted a 3.5-4ct one, and when I found out about a 5.01ct one that was in our price range (but lower in color and cut than I had considered previously), I had to see it. And then I had to buy it. :)
 
I do not drink the PS Kool-aid. I am not overpaying for an ACA or BGD sig stone when I can get GIA 3 excellent for much cheaper. As long as you stick to the 'safe' numbers, you can get a killer stone with a much bigger carat weight for the same or less money. I got a gorgeously cut GIA 3 ex J color/ VS1 clarity with great HCA score on Blue Nile for $1734, and I would have not been able to get that size for that money elsewhere. Now granted, cut is important to me, so I do tend to stick with the numbers that PS advises. But I prefer steeper crowns than that "cheat sheet" allows. And a lot of PSers tend to like G and H color, but I much prefer I, J or K.
 
Do I follow the PS party line of "cut is king"? Yes, absolutely, but I may define 'well-cut' differently.

Re. specific ranges and restrictions, like that "cheat sheet" floating around on here... it depends - intent and presentation matter. A lot.
If someone like DS posts it I have no personal objection because I am completely confident that she knows what she's talking about. She's looked at tons of different types of stones and she's made her own judgements through experience, and I think that if those specifications represent her educated opinion in a nutshell then that's very helpful to newcomers - because she can explain why she feels that way.

When Newbie5054 posts it with no indication of any understanding of what those numbers actually mean, well, that's a different story. I have no respect for an opinion that is merely a parroting of another's opinion with no independent thought.
 
I do believe that cut is king, yes, and not just because "PS SAYS SO," but because I am very well educated on my own. PS opened the door for me to really dive into this stuff, and now I am probably overly into the minutia. I love to loupe stones at high magnification, and pick the nerdery apart to the most ridiculous level. Because of what I have learned, I am personally pretty particular on my table and depths, within the "cheat sheet", and the angles I think that work well with my particular favorite numbers. With my current stone it's incredibly evident, actually, that I found one that meets that criteria which important to me, both in cut (cutting style and cut quality), and in specs. IF I look for another one day, it will be QUITE hard to top this one.
 
I went against many of the experts advice here on ps when I opted for my 2.24 carat bc the table is wide enough to drive a truck through it. Also. It is egl USA cert. so double whammy. Do I wish I had drank the Kool aid? No. Out of curiosity, I took my stone to several brick and mortar jewelry shops to see if I could trade it in. They all offered me the exact value of what i paid for it 4 months ago, without knowing what I paid so having equity in my stone is reassuring. I know that i can trade it up for a Gia ideal colorless and not lose any of the money I have spent while enjoying this 2.24 rock, but I doubt I will do it. Many people try to sell their stones and expect to lose 50 percent, so I don't think I will ever feel comfortable spending that much. I realize that I didn't buy ideal or colorless, but my stone has personality in all lighting conditions. I have photographed it in the worst lighting and it still amazes me. For example, our meeting room at work makes my colleagues rings look super dull, and I worried mine was behaving the same way, but it sure wasn't. I think sometimes you have to trust your eyes. And egl USA was spot on with its clarity rating, according to several jewelers louped it.
 
For modern cuts, yes I do drink the Kool Aid.

For old cuts, I still judge them based on my own perception of cut quality -- which is not totally out to lunch (I don't like too much obstruction, don't like fish eye, and other unpleasant things -- but I certainly don't use tools other than my eyes to judge cut quality. But, I have seen a lot of diamonds and educated my eyes and spent a lot of time in RT learning about diamond cut quality, so it's perhaps not the same as Newby5054 doing that! <-- (Yssie :lol: for that name)
 
I did when I got here and it cost me. "Dont go below an h vs2 "

I have stones with viable inclusions now and k or maybe lower.
 
Yes, I do drink the PS kook-aid. I don't think one always needs to stick with AGS 0, but it's easy to just buy an AGS0! For old cuts, I've been trying to like lower colors, but I just can't! My search for a big F/G OEC continues...
 
Ditto Dreamer. For old cuts I use my eyes but for modern cuts I go by the cut is king formula. For old cuts I prefer crisp facets in a pleasing pattern, little obstruction, even light play across the stone etc. For modern round brilliants I want a top cut performer.
 
PS is such an incredible education resource and I learned a lot from all of the discussions and info posted here. When I was selecting my MRB, I viewed a lot of stones and consistently preferred stones under 2 HCA without knowing their HCA scores so HCA has been a good selection tool for me to focus on particular ones. The advice of PS experts to go view stones to narrow my preferences has been very helpful.

My eyes are not sharp enough to differentiate between ideal and super-ideal stones like ACA. I understand the differences on paper but can't see them at all. So the MBR I selected is an ideal cut but not all of its hearts are perfect so it's not an ideal H&A as defined here on PS. But it also does not have the premium associated with super-ideal stones.

As far as color/clarity combo, I go with what I can see too. My MRB has twinning wisps that make the plot look like a murder scene but I can't see any of them with naked eye and they don't affect the light return. I actually loved reading the twinning wisp discussion to confirm my understanding of these inclusions.
 
I lived with a poorly cut diamond (F color, though, and I got a LOT of complements on it over the years, so I am convinced that people are attracted to color to a certain extent) for 30 years before my first upgrade. Obviously there was a world of difference in my upgrade H&A stone over the original. I personally can go outside the box a little as long as I have evidence of the light performance, which Jonathan has done for me more than once. I do not necessarily have to have H&A as long as the stone has ideal light performance. I would never choose size over cut quality, but I'd get the largest stone I could with great cut and within the color and clarity range I prefer (near colorless, and VS+). I do think the ideal cut range is pretty broad, though, so I would always try to stay within the broader ideal cut range. I have ordered a lot of stones to look at, but still, I am never seeing more than 2 at a time.

I always recommend the "formula" to newbies because it is the safest way they can be assured to get a great diamond when buying online. It is very different if one can visit GOG and WF and compare numerous stones in person. Neither vendor is going to show bad stones, but certainly someone may find that they prefer larger and smaller tables, different LGF's, etc. But when you do not have the luxury of comparing multiple stones in person, I feel a responsibility to steer people to the safe zone of specs, and that includes color, too. It doesn't matter to me if a stone is GIA or AGS graded, as long as the supporting evidence is there for light performance. I have had two GIA graded stones and one was about the most perfect H&A you will find according to the helium scan and the other was XXX that had ideal light performance.

One other plus to buying ideal cut stone is that they are easier to sell and they resell for a better price. High quality is usually always a better investment (yes,I know we aren't buying diamonds as an investment) than something that is not, and that goes for cars, homes, etc.

Oh, and all of that was only referring to people looking for modern round brilliants. Obviously antique stones are evaluated on an individual basis. Even AVR's have different specs than mrb's.
 
HCA under 2.
Good IS performance.

It's not Kool-Aid.
It's Dom Pérignon. :cheeky:

screen_shot_2014-03-25_at_11.png
 
I personally don't but I think I'm off on my own on this one. MRB's just hold very very little attraction for me. As several other PS'ers have stated old cuts are a different bag of tricks.

Since I don't really have strong feelings towards any MRB's I'm more open to specs. However I would NEVER recommend them to the average PS'er or Newby5045 (Yssie I DARE YOU to change your PS name to this LOL...I could be Newby5055 :bigsmile: :lol: :shock: ) because most people ARE looking for the best or at least safe for cut on an MRB. Hope that makes sense.
 
I just wanted to add that my diamond, which is in the BIC range, scores 1.6 on HCA, and I think it's lovely. I think, though, that the experts would have advised me to run from it.
 
I prefer a larger table than many PSers when it comes to ideal-cut MRBs - my WF ACA has a 56.9% table - and when I search vendor sites for new MRBs for myself, I also put in a 56% table min. so I don't get results with 53-55% tables. (I know 56% is not large when it comes to tables, but I see quite a difference as compared with 53-54% tables)

I also love a well-cut 60/60 stone that is > 2.0 HCA and gets all 1As in the AGA Cut Class Tool other than 1Bs for table and crown angle.

But like others have stated, if I am responding to a particular thread, I tailor my response to fit their specific search situation - and if the diamond is well-cut and otherwise within the poster's criteria, and the vendor has a reasonable return policy, I usually advise buying it loose and inspecting it under various lighting conditions.
 
I don't just drink the Kool-Aid, I stir it up!

And as a diamond buyer by profession, I've evaluated enough diamonds to realize that the proportions of the diamond are only part of the equation when it comes to light return and visual performance... Buying by the numbers will only get a person so far, then it is time to take factors such as optical symmetry into account, which is why a lot of the better known vendors provide reflector scope images on their diamond details pages.

It should be noted that each of us tends to focus on diamonds which exhibit the visual properties which we personally find appealing, I've always focused on diamonds cut to the center spectrum of the range designated for the zero ideal cut proportions rating, because I like the virtual balance of brilliance and dispersion that tends to be created by that particular offset for crown and pavilion angle; and then I focus on a pretty specific range of LGF's because I prefer the type of sparkle created by that particular range... but the cool thing about diamonds is that different combinations of proportions and cut quality tend to create looks which will appeal to diamond buyers with different tastes in diamonds - which is one of the reasons why the parameters for ideal cut diamonds is as broad as it is... the trick is to look at enough diamonds to get an idea of where your preferences lie, and then buy appropriately... after drinking at least one gallon of the Kool-Aid that I make each day, of course, so that you have a reasonable chance of getting things "right" ;))
 
One of the reasons I stopped posting (a loong time ago), was because I always felt like the oddball out when I would tell a newbie that a super ideal was not required to have a beautiful diamond.
I remember certain vendors jumping in and always implying that I was missing something. That even after owning both Super Ideal H&A and non-H&A well cut stones, I still don't know what I'm talking about.

So it's so nice to see the tone of this forum has changed over the years. Very glad to see so many regulars not drinking the "Kool-Aid".
 
I'm going to chime in because I've been frequenting this forum a lot for 2 months, but now that I have the diamond, I will probably retire for a while as the obsession cools off. I came here via the HCA tool, and did a ton of reading. It turned out that the PS kool-aid is very expensive. I purchased a stone from Blue Nile for $9,880 (1.51 ct, I, VS1, low HCA, beautiful, yadda, yadda). If I was to go the "traditional" PS route, the stone would have been in the $13-15k range getting an ACA, H&A, Brian Gavin, what have you. So, I drank the kool-aid to educate myself, but then comprised with my own mind because the girl would enjoy a 1.51 carat over an ACA stone at 1 ct at the same price.

I'm sure some of my threads were noob-ish, but this forum has a ton of information that I have learned just via the search. I've enjoyed the educational ride, but I would personally recommend people just don't willingly decrease carat size to chase a stone that will be accepted on a forum (granted it's nice to have reassurance which I've sought).

Who knows. I'm 26. I'll be back :).
 
The best looking RBs I have had seen (to my pair of eyes) are smaller table with a high crown... :love:
 
Dancing Fire|1395764411|3641055 said:
do you have your own preferences (range/specs) for MRB?

I'd love a well cut MRB but some specs might be outside the PS "ideal box"

I wouldn't mind a little extra depth (up to 62%) if the stone come with a high crown (15.5-15.9%) and a small 54-55% table.
Color range ...G/H
Clarity range ...VS2-SI1 "if eye clean"
min crown height preferences is 15.4% with a max of 56% table.
pavil depth 42.8-43%

If I hit the lottery I'll go for a E/F VS1 stone.
Click to expand...

I really like the look of the ACA stones that have around a 56-57% table. I had compared those to my ES with a smaller table and still preferred the ACAs so I'd pay more for them (if I have the money!).

Even though many like the lower colors, I'm not sure I could go for something under I color and for sure wouldn't want to go below an SI1.

What if I would buy if I won the lotto is entirely different, though...I'd go directly to Tiffany's! :love:
 
SB621|1395771438|3641122 said:
I personally don't but I think I'm off on my own on this one. MRB's just hold very very little attraction for me. As several other PS'ers have stated old cuts are a different bag of tricks.

Since I don't really have strong feelings towards any MRB's I'm more open to specs. However I would NEVER recommend them to the average PS'er or Newby5045 (Yssie I DARE YOU to change your PS name to this LOL...I could be Newby5055 :bigsmile: :lol: :shock: ) because most people ARE looking for the best or at least safe for cut on an MRB. Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

This. Totally this. I don't know or understand much about cut when it comes to brilliants (and they aren't overly my cup of tea) and I am in awe of the people who do and can help the rest of us pick beautiful diamonds based on numbers. I am more a fancy/old cut girl nowadays. But I do think cut makes a huge difference. I personally like personality. I think performance is very important but specs don't tell you everything. That kind of sounds like I'm contradicting myself... But I don't think it's just cut. Cut is important but not the only thing. I don't think my OEC is an amazing performer (it's great, just not top end because so very few of them are) but the personality she has hits one out of the ballpark for me.

And I like eye clean SI1/2 stones. Mine is one and I love her little feather. It's part of her personality. So I would never discount a stone with an SI grading without seeing it first. My engagement ring is an SI1 and I have never found the inclusions in it.
 
Drink it: Yes, and no. Before PS, I was always attracted to something proportioned more like the 60/60, higher color (good G or higher) and clarity in the VVS1/VVS2 range. I didn't know what cut was, and probably not many newbies did back in the '90s. I've bought into the PS party line, and bought a modern superideal H&A and I am very happy with it. But I didn't suddenly start disliking the other diamonds that I already owned.

After PS, I learned how to better judge cut. If I am going to go plunk down big money for a big modern-cut diamond, I lean toward:
an August Vintage round, if I could find an affordable one, color I or higher. Or, for a H&A:
depth up to 62%, crown (15.5-15.9%), 54-56% table
Color range ... D down to H or possibly I
Clarity range ... Bottom-feeder Si2 - I1 and does not need to be 100% eye clean all of the time; just has to be "discrete." ;))
min crown height preferences probably 15% with a max of 56% table.
pavil depth that "works" and isn't excessively deep

That said, I also own a close to 2ct RB diamond that is shallow (58%), has a low crown angle, and a huge table. It's also a strong J/K color. It has no lab report, and I bought it from an estate. It is the polar opposite of my GOG H&A stone. It lacks fire, except around the rim and when the stone is tilted a certain amount. It has a lot of brilliance, and a very "silvery" look, white light, kind of a Streamline or Machine Age or Moderne look, I'd call it. Now, that is a diamond that would not meet the PS criteria, but it's still an interesting and pretty and lively stone, just with a very different personality. If you looked at OEC and OMC diamonds and hated EVERYTHING about their antique look, how would you cut a diamond for a completely different appearance. That's how this estate diamond strikes me.

I have other diamonds that are a bit wonky or probably not better than a GIA good cut, and they are not bad looking, but their performance does vary with the lighting, and it drops off rather suddenly the minute those stones get dirty. They have to be kept very, very clean compared to the newer makes.

I'd like to explore marquise and oval diamonds, someday, but I don't have the need for any more diamonds right now.
 
drink it?
I helped define it.
Honestly it continues to evolve and will continue to evolve.

I do not buy into that any one particular branded cut is the best of the best and feel each stone must be evaluated on its own merits.
 
I think that there is certain amount of Kool-Aid involved. I.e., a less than perfectly cut stone can look "different but good" especially if all the minor facets are done right. There are plenty of people who put size above all else. But ultimately these things are real. Light performance is measurable and it exists.

The jewelry industry hasn't done a great job of educating people in this regard. Why should they? They've got thousands of stones that no PS fan would even consider, and someone owns every one of them. They invented the 4cs, which make it sound like you can get a good stone just by looking for D+IF+shape you like+as big as you can afford, and then they invented bogus labs so that you can't even reliably get an actual D/IF.

So while PS may be biased towards certain combinations, the board is at least providing tools and honest advice about what you are getting.
 
Dancing Fire|1395787677|3641293 said:
The best looking RBs I have had seen (to my pair of eyes) are smaller table with a high crown... :love:
Click to expand...


Ditto Dancing Fire! Yum!
 
I believe cut is king to the extent that light performance is the most important thing in a round and you need the right angles for it. But since I value light performance over patterning, perfect hearts and arrows patterning to me is 'meh'.

But I'm not a round brilliant fan, though I help people with them.

I prefer personality and fancy cuts rounds hands down. Still need great light performance.

But I don't believe that round brilliants are the "best ever" because of the light return. And I dislike when people who tell fancy cut shoppers that they should go for a round because of the performance.
 
Since numbers are Greek to me I just stick with an ACA. I don't have to worry about getting a bad stone.
 
I don't drink the kool aid, mainly because, in my opinion, the devices that are out there to explain one ideal or super excellent cut are at levels I don't believe the human eye can see. Also once a diamond is set depending on the setting performance may change. In addition, diamond jewelry needs to be kept clean as any accumulation of dirt or film will change the way light enters, internally reflects and eventually exits. Its like someone in the market for a Flawless, not Internally Flawless, within a week to a few months in a ring it will most likely be IF, or VVS1. In todays market most NY manufacturers have little choice but to cut RBC's ad triple EX. I have mentioned this before, but for me, I would always be happy with a triple VG or triple Ex, RBC in a VS1-SI1, GIA, for the budget I have. If I wanted a bigger stone, then I would consider a Radiant, Oval, Princess, Pear or Emerald cut, since they are less per carat then a RBC. For fancy shapes, I would look for pleasing shapes that have good-excellent polish and symmetry, with a nice contrast of dark and white, and little bow ties in stones that exhibit bow ties. I stick to GIA or AGS, and overseas, HRD.
 
Re: Do you drink the PS "ideal cut" Kool-Aid or ...

I drank the koolaid and ended up with a stunning AGS0 stone. It gets noticed because QUALITY isn't too big around my parts. Thank god for pricescope! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top