Do we as members have the right to police PS?

[scouty]

I don't recall any vendors talking politics on PS.

Yeah, that’s not what I said... I meant with current events many companies are embracing social justice. Some discussions by members on PS, in my opinion, were otherwise. Maybe those vendors don’t want to be associated with those member discussions.

 

[Calliecake]

I’ve never seen a vendor talking politics either.

 

[nala]

I think some posters were made to feel like second tier members when they were told to butt out, and then blamed for the other thread shuttering, etc. The exclusion has already started. I think those of us who don’t want that forum subconsciously or very consciously Suspect that we will not be in the loop and maybe all the other forums will suffer as a result.

 

[Calliecake]

@nala, Did you read what the OP had asked in the thread you are referring to? The thread was made to get a count on those who were willing to pay a fee In order to compensate Andry for allowing a political forum. There was no second tier member status. Members were offering to pay so people who wanted to be included could be. If anything Pricescope has always been a group of people who supported each other, even though we may not agree on everything. The poster apologized and explained her response. There was no inclusion.

People who enjoy the political threads are trying to keep them.

 

[nala]

@nala, Did you read what the OP had asked in the thread you are referring to? The thread was made to get a count on those who were willing to pay a fee In order to compensate Andry for allowing a political forum. There was no second tier member status. Members were offering to pay so people who wanted to be included could be. If anything Pricescope has always been a group of people who supported each other, even though we may not agree on everything. Your negative comment about the poster was wrong. She immediately apologized. There was no inclusion.

When you are telling pser’s That a thread is only for certain people, that is exclusion. When you constantly reinforce why you want a political forum
—and moderators or admin do not acknowledge why others feel that it changes the dynamics—that is exclusion. When admin gives certain posters the task of forming a very exclusive forum, without addressing all pser’s At large — you guessed it—that is exclusion.

 

[Calliecake]

When you are telling pser’s That a thread is only for certain people, that is exclusion. When you constantly reinforce why you want a political forum
—and moderators or admin do not acknowledge why others feel that it changes the dynamics—that is exclusion. When admin gives certain posters the task of forming a very exclusive forum, without addressing all pser’s At large — you guessed it—that is exclusion.

Nala, No one wanted to exclude anyone.

 

[redwood66]

Yeah, that’s not what I said... I meant with current events many companies are embracing social justice. Some discussions by members on PS, in my opinion, were otherwise. Maybe those vendors don’t want to be associated with those member discussions.

Vendors are in business to make money. You seem to be speaking of specific ps members who should be shunned by vendors based on their views. Is that your intent with this post? What is your suggestion if it is? If I'm mistaken please explain so I can understand.

 

[scouty]

Vendors are in business to make money. You seem to be speaking of specific ps members who should be shunned by vendors based on their views. Is that your intent with this post? What is your suggestion if it is? If I'm mistaken please explain so I can understand.

BN is a sponsor of PS and they made this statement: https://www.bluenile.com/inclusion

So maybe they wouldn’t want to appear to be associated with some of the contentious discussions that took place previously here on those topics? So maybe sponsors had something to do with the decision to ban discussions? That’s all I was saying. I don’t want to get into it any further. I think it’s for the best political discussions are banned.

 

[redwood66]

BN is a sponsor of PS and they made this statement: https://www.bluenile.com/inclusion

So maybe they wouldn’t want to appear to be associated with some of the contentious discussions that took place previously here on those topics? So maybe sponsors had something to do with the decision to ban discussions? That’s all I was saying. I don’t want to get into it any further. I think it’s for the best political discussions are banned.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yeah, that’s not what I said... I meant with current events many companies are embracing social justice. Some discussions by members on PS, in my opinion, were otherwise. Maybe those vendors don’t want to be associated with those member discussions.

The one thing that all vendors have in common .... not one of em had refuse to take my $$$ yet.

 

[scouty]

The one thing that all vendors have in common .... not one of em had refuse to take my $$$ yet.

I was talking about sponsors of PS. Maybe they don’t want to sponsor anymore if there are some crazy threads going on and degrading the sense of “community”.

Obviously a vendor will take whoever’s money when someone buys their product.

 

[OboeGal]

When you are telling pser’s That a thread is only for certain people, that is exclusion. When you constantly reinforce why you want a political forum
—and moderators or admin do not acknowledge why others feel that it changes the dynamics—that is exclusion. When admin gives certain posters the task of forming a very exclusive forum, without addressing all pser’s At large — you guessed it—that is exclusion.

The thread was not for certain people - it was for a certain purpose. That purpose was to get a count of those people who are interested in a political sub that is subscription-based and visible only to subscribers, so that those numbers could be relayed to Andrey. It was made clear that all who wished to participate in such a subforum were welcome, and it was posted where everyone who is a member of Pricescope could see it. There was no exclusion there - every Pricescoper who wishes to participate would be welcome. Period. Unfortunately, people came and thread-jacked it all to heck and back with critiques and complaints about the idea. That thread was not the place for that discussion; a new thread would have been the place for that. A similar thing just happened with Arcadian's thread about tropical storms - it got derailed by someone, and she made it clear that she was going to have that thread closed and start a new one, and by golly, the new one better stay about weather. That is her call - it's her thread. Unfortunately, @smitcompton couldn't close or do anything about her derailed thread because she had to go to the hospital shortly after she started it, which is why I (clumsily, and probably too angrily) tried to step in and restore the thread to it's purpose. And ever since then, you and everyone else have been told, again and again, that all who would wish to participate in a political subforum would be welcome.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion,"not having all the decisions go exclusively one way" is not the same as exclusion. Those who don't want political threads are NOT being ignored or not acknowledged by admin, moderators, or anyone else - political threads got canceled, for crying out loud! How on earth can anyone claim the naysayers haven't been acknowledged? But, see, the naysayers share membership of this forum with plenty of others who want the ability to discuss politics with one another. Why should we not have a voice, too? It's like anything else among a group of more than one adult - a marriage, a friend group, or a country - why should one group have complete control over decisions that affect a significant portion of the rest? So far the "no politics" crowd have completely gotten their way, to the detriment of the rest of us. What smitcompton proposed to admin was an attempt at a compromise that would allow those of us who wished to talk politics with each other to do so while respecting the wishes of those who don't like, or want to see, or be tempted by, or be annoyed by the titles of, political discussions. At the same time, Andrey would get a little revenue, which frankly would mostly go toward the costs of the additional subforum, and it was proposed that there would be little-to-no moderation so that it would not be a burden on mods. I've never seen anyone referencing what happened in political threads carrying over to non-political threads in the past, so there was no reason to believe that would happen with this, but if people noticed that occurring, then certainly that could be reported to mods and corrective action could be taken. This was an attempt to compromise - to propose a solution to meet the needs of everyone involved, not perfectly, but enough. It was NEVER about exclusion, and the fact that it existed and was an available option for any Pricescoper was never going to be hidden. What happened there would be invisible to those who didn't wish to join, but it's existence would never be hidden.

The admin never gave "certain posters the task of forming a very exclusive forum, without addressing all pser’s At large." That just didn't happen. @smitcompton, as one of the people grieving political threads, pondered the problem, came up with an idea that might be a workable compromise, and proposed that to admin. It's utterly unknown at this time, as far as I know, what admin thinks about it, or if admin is even remotely considering it with any seriousness. And again, for the umpteenth time - it would not have been "very exclusive," or exclusive at all.

 

[nala]

I hope admin does what is best for this community.

 

[Tekate]

I Didn’t say that. I said that some posters have even accused them of that. Recently.

I did not ACCUSE them, I said I THINK they are right leaning, I said this somewhere on this or the other thread because of the abortion threads a few years ago and the god threads where Ella leaned anti abortion and pro prayers, god, etc, Words like ACCUSE to me are inflammatory.

 

[Tekate]

I felt one vendor did.

I’ve never seen a vendor talking politics either.

 

[Calliecake]

Thank you for articulating the feelings of us many of us here who enjoyed and want to the political threads so perfectly @OboeGal.

Covid has brought about some major changes for those over 60, those who have autoimmune diseases and those dealing with anxiety. Some are not able to spend time with their families. It’s nice to have an escape doing something you really enjoy. The political forum was an enjoyable escape for some posters. Is wanting a forum that may actually be helping people a bad thing? Isn’t having something for all posters a good thing, especially now.

Heck, Covid is affecting many under 60!

 

[Calliecake]

Hopefully a few of us can come up with a solution so we can ALL speak about political topics together. I miss talking to the posters in the political threads,

Threadjack : @Bayek, I miss you and our discussions. The house looks gorgeous. Please try not to stress about Autie. We will get thru this. I know it’s hard,

 

[Demon]

I felt one vendor did.

Yes, one vendor did.at least get involved in wanting to end the political discussion..Which is all the more reason to get it on an "out of sight" forum here.

 

[Tekate]

Aw Callie THANK YOU.. thanks gonna post some new pix later today on the house.. I wish I could be as level headed as you.

Hopefully a few of us can come up with a solution so we can ALL speak about political topics together. I miss talking to the posters in the political threads,

Threadjack : @Bayek, I miss you and our discussions. The house looks gorgeous. Please try not to stress about Autie. We will get thru this. I know it’s hard,

 

[Calliecake]

Aw Callie THANK YOU.. thanks gonna post some new pix later today on the house.. I wish I could be as level headed as you.

Oh @Bayek, It weighs on me days too. I’ve gone overboard with the whole Covid mess. I haven’t held the new baby yet or hugged my nieces or grandnieces. My nieces best friend was diagnosed with Covid about a week ago. Thank God she hadn’t seen my niece since the baby was born.

 

[Missy]

If everyone could promise to behave politely and civilly maybe Andrey would decide to give us another chance. That way everyone can be included and no one would feel excluded. And if anyone steps out of line no second chances. They get banned. For however long the admin deems appropriate.

If we can behave like adults maybe we could get back the privilege to discuss politics. Those who don't want to can skip the political threads and those who want to have to post respectfully and without malice. This way no one is excluded (no private area of the forum) and whoever wants to read and/or post can and those who don't just skip over the political threads. OK?

Let's ask admin if we can have a second chance and start over again.

 

[Demon]

If everyone could promise to behave politely and civilly maybe Andrey would decide to give us another chance. That way everyone can be included and no one would feel excluded. And if anyone steps out of line no second chances. They get banned. For however long the admin deems appropriate.

If we can behave like adults maybe we could get back the privilege to discuss politics. Those who don't want to can skip the political threads and those who want to have to post respectfully and without malice. This way no one is excluded (no private area of the forum) and whoever wants to read and/or post can and those who don't just skip over the political threads. OK?

Let's ask admin if we can have a second chance and start over again.

That's sounds great, but this was the second time they were shut down, right? Or was it the first? I still thing out of sight is best at this point. That might keep it from being permanently shut down by those who claim they don't want political threads but can't stay out of them or stop reporting people.

 

[Missy]

That's sounds great, but this was the second time they were shut down, right? Or was it the first? I still thing out of sight is best at this point. That might keep it from being permanently shut down by those who claim they don't want political threads but can't stay out of them or stop reporting people.

I really don't know the number but I do know how much the privilege of discussing politics here means to a number of members. People who are struggling due to current events political and otherwise. And for those people it would make a difference in their lives to be able to discuss politics here.

So maybe, this time, people will behave better. And maybe if the admin will just ban anyone who steps out of line with no warning and for as long as they want (forever even) maybe people will post with more respect and civility than before. If I am remembering correctly it was not the majority of people behaving badly but just a few members. And if they cannot behave with respect and they insist on posting and are rude then they get banned. Problem solved.

We aren't children and we should not behave as such. If one is going to get hot headed don't post. Stop and think is this worth it? Do I want to be banned for life? And then take a step back and out of the thread if necessary. But this way no one feels excluded as it is up to them to read or not read. Post or not post.

It wouldn't hurt to ask if PSers agree. If not, fine, but I was looking for an answer that would make everyone feel OK about the decision. I understand why some are opposed to a private area. How some look at that as exclusionary. I am trying to see all sides and help come up with a solution. There are members here who really need to be able to have this and I would like them to be able to. That's all.

Ultimately this is up to Andrey. Period. It's not a democracy here.

 

[Demon]

I really don't know the number but I do know how much the privilege of discussing politics here means to a number of members. People who are struggling due to current events political and otherwise.

So maybe, this time, people will behave better. And maybe if the admin will just ban anyone who steps out of line with no warning and for as long as they want (forever even) maybe people will post with more respect and civility than before.

We aren't children and we should not behave as such. If one is going to get hot headed don't post. Stop and think is this worth it? Do I want to be banned for life? And then take a step back and out of the thread if necessary. But this way no one feels excluded as it is up to them to read not read. Post or not post.

It wouldn't hurt to ask if PSers agree. If not fine but I was looking for an answer that would make everyone feel OK about the decision. I understand why some are opposed to a private area. How some look at that as exclusionary. I am trying to see all sides and help come up with a solution. There are members here who really need to be able to have this and I would like them to be able to. That's all.

Oh, I understand your position. I just don't think most of us are capable of being completely civil and polite when things get heated, as they constantly do in politics. And then, one person's civil and polite but passionate seems to be hate speech to others, and reported, and then we're right back where we started - with politics banned. If we're voting, my vote goes to 'out of sight'.

 

[Calliecake]

@Demon, By “out of site” do you mean a separate forum with only members allowed?

 

[Musia]

By doing weekly announces I think you will be able to notify more and more members that the political discussions sub forum exists and welcomes everyone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If everyone could promise to behave politely and civilly maybe Andrey would decide to give us another chance. That way everyone can be included and no one would feel excluded.

Let's ask admin if we can have a second chance and start over again.

Missy, You should Email the admin...

 

[Missy]

Missy, You should Email the admin...

I will leave that to the posters who are more passionate about this issue. I am satiated discussing politics with my dh and a few close friends.

We cannot even get people to agree to behave in a respectful manner towards others no matter their view. There is nothing to be gained with making derogatory comments on an online forum. IMO. And if people won't even agree here to behave civilly then I am not optimistic.

I just don't think most of us are capable of being completely civil and polite when things get heated, as they constantly do in politics

Maybe, when we disagree with others we can consider it an opportunity to understand the other person and the reasons behind that person's position. While you (general you) might be well educated about a topic don't think you have all the answers. And before assuming the worst about someone try to give them the benefit of the doubt and think they have good intentions. Don't make snap judgments. Be open to all points of view and the reasons behind them. Don't attack personal beliefs no matter how strongly you feel. And again, if things start going too far back away, Don't start a verbal war here. Don't let it get fully heated. Stop and move away and engage someone else or another topic. It's not worth a full blown fight here. And the ultimate goal is not to change the other person's mind (because that is rarely going to happen) but to be able to disagree and keep talking. KWIM?




I would say that is a potato not a tomato and someone else could say no it's a tomato. And we could have civil discourse despite the fact I know they are wrong. I will be polite and explain why it's a potato. And if they continue further and try to get a rise out of me by posting nasty comments I would ignore them. And move on. If they are polite but keep on disagreeing I would say OK. We shall agree to disagree and I will move on and discuss the potatoes with others who understand and get that it is a potato. I won't continue banging my head against the proverbial wall trying to convince them it's not a tomato. Because ultimately they will believe whatever they want to believe and changing their beliefs won't do anything for world peace or even who gets elected as President. It would be nice to have a calm and logical discussion and see others points of view. But with respect even when we disagree. And even if we don't respect the other person (for whatever reason) there are rules on this (and any) online forum that we agree to follow. So for that reason alone, if we respect PS and the administration and want to post we play by their rules. Whether or not we like them.


JMO. Agree or disagree. Want to discuss politics here? Let's agree to play by the rules of PS. It isn't our forum. We are but guests here. Don't like it? Don't post. Don't read. Don't like it but still want to post and read? Then follow the rules of Pricescope. It really is that simple.

 

[Austina]

Thank you @smitcompton, I know you’re genuine in your wish for all people from other countries to be included, but this and other threads have highlighted that not everyone feels that way. When people ask in a condescending way whether one understands what a thread is about, and how exactly it affects those living outside of the U.S., I feel that my opinions wouldn’t necessarily be welcomed.

We have a lot going on in our lives at the moment, so thank you for asking, but I’m going to politely decline.

Good luck.

 

[Demon]

@Demon, By “out of site” do you mean a separate forum with only members allowed?

Yes. I think we've tested Ella's patience too often, and that the out of sight forum is our last chance.