Do we as members have the right to police PS?

[Queenie60]

Only one person? I felt bullied, harrassed and picked on by at least 6 posters here, but I never reported one of them, and not just about politics, my opinion was smashed, hurtful remarks were made ganged up on!!! yes and it was painful and hurtful and I would never let that happen again on here because while I was Ms nice guy people were reporting me it seems. today i will report anyone who I think violates TOS - in a heart beat, a nano.

Yes, only one - and it was not you. And you must admit that there's been many cruel statements made to those who do not agree with one political side. It's too bad and I too am guilty of participating and saying things that I regret. This is why I backed away sometime ago.

 

[Tekate]

That's a bummer but I felt there was AGE discrimination against me by younger posters, accusing, angry, mean, and vicious I don't even think most even read my post, there was no respect for my life story, my experience and the pain it caused me, I left for a time because I felt to ganged up on so ripped apart I became depressed... and that wasn't a political thread. I will never engage with some posters here again. ever.

 

[stracci2000]

In such a case, all I need is a friendly reminder from someone, and I would apologize and try to fix it.

I was reading the discussion with interest, wondering what the mods were going to do. Then I read your post, which was very alienating to me.

I called you out on telling respected PSers to "BUTT OUT" and "that's none of your business". I don't recall you apologizing for that.

 

[Tekate]

Didn't think it was me because I had you on ignore one thing the moderator said to me was that BOTH sides thought they were being attacked and both sides complained.

Yes, only one - and it was not you. And you must admit that there's been many cruel statements made to those who do not agree with one political side. It's too bad and I too am guilty of participating and saying things that I regret. This is why I backed away sometime ago.

 

[AGBF]

If some member asks for advice on whether to report a very bad behaving neighbor to police or not, what people would be advising? Pack your belongings and move away? In the worst case scenario the person would do that, but there are some options available for trying first, right? Why most of us have self control and usually demonstrate civil behavior in restaurants, at the office, on a plane, in a store but not here?

I have often disagreed with you on political topics, Musia. That may no longer be an issue unless we are able to discuss politics again someday .

I really want to go on the record as being awed by how humble you were in the face of attempted constructive criticism and education. I know that many times I felt frustrated and explained something to you, something that was peculiar to the United States and that you, having been born elsewhere, might not know. You always researched the topic and returned to discuss it, never allowing me to get away with more of the argument than you felt I had proven according to what you had read.

I felt I first bonded with you because you were kind. You reached out to me personally about my (naughty but loveable) dog and I saw a picture of your dog. I saw that there were posters who had a knee-jerk reaction when they saw you write. I understand why they reacted as they did. I also think that you are one of the people most open to learning who is on this forum.

Deb

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

....Members are asked to report objectionable posts....

This right here is part of the problem. What is "objectionable" is a subjective matter. What is offensive to some is not to others. Many members have been on boards for some time and are not the tender snowflakes that others are. Why should the sensitive dictate what's acceptable for the whole group?

Surely this is an international forum where there are lots of posters who are not American? Is it not interesting to know how your country is perceived across the world? Some of the political threads have been a real eye opener to me about what Americans think. And also how THEY see the rest of the world- like those of us living in “socialist” countries with universal health care and higher taxes.

Of course it is! Perhaps I didn't explain myself as precisely as I could have. Let's say there was a popular jewelry board based in Monaco and due to the deluge of complaints to admin over political threads, all political discussion has been terminated. Even as a card-carrying member of the Monégasque board, what right do I have as an American to opine on what the Monégasque say to each other regarding politics, or report them because they get a little carried away? I don't think I have a right to comment on their politics, it's none of my business. It just seems to me that I see non-Americans opining on whether there should or shouldn't be political commentary between Americans, on an American board. There's just something about that that rubs me the wrong way....I don't know if that makes my perspective any clearer?

I wish there was more international political talk around here as I think I'd be able to learn a lot from them. In my opinion, the international news we get is usually filtered and sanitized, so it would be great to hear unvarnished stories/opinions of international news and politics.

I don't understand why, in light of the Forum Policy page, you are surprised that "people expect PS to be different" than those in your real life.

And I cannot agree that Psers outside the US have no business opining here. That kind of close-minded demand strikes me as the "sort of entitlement" you've denounced as reflecting an unseemly desire to "control others' behaviors."

I clarified above. It's obviously not that I think non-Americans have no business opining here, I just don't think they should have a vote as to whether political discourse stays or goes. They have no horse in the race, so to speak.

 

[Musia]

Didn't have a time to read all posts, however I was thinking a lot of why we tend to be offensive and insulting, and savage on-line. Here is an article from BBC, hope is is a respectable source for most. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180403-why-do-people-become-trolls-online-and-in-social-media
The internet offers unparalleled promise of cooperation and communication between all of humanity. But instead of embracing a massive extension of our social circles online, we seem to be reverting to tribalism and conflict.

While we generally conduct our real-life interactions with strangers politely and respectfully, online we can be horrible. Is there any way we can relearn the cooperation that enabled us to find common ground and thrive as a species?

 

[Musia]

I have often disagreed with you on political topics, Musia. That may no longer be an issue unless we are able to discuss politics again someday .

I really want to go on the record as being awed by how humble you were in the face of attempted constructive criticism and education. I know that many times I felt frustrated and explained something to you, something that was peculiar to the United States and that you, having been born elsewhere, might not know. You always researched the topic and returned to discuss it, never allowing me to get away with more of the argument than you felt I had proven according to what you had read.

I felt I first bonded with you because you were kind. You reached out to me personally about my (naughty but loveable) dog and I saw a picture of your dog. I saw that there were posters who had a knee-jerk reaction when they saw you write. I understand why they reacted as they did. I also think that you are one of the people most open to learning who is on this forum.

Deb

Thank you Deb. I also know that my posts were often provoking and I want to apologize sincerely. I learned the lesson.

 

[mrs-b]

I think as human beings in general these days we tend to have too much to say for ourselves. However you want to apply it, saying less would be beneficial.

And no, I don't mean turning a blind eye to injustice. But just a few less opinions. Most of the time I wonder what on earth makes any of us think we're right on almost any given topic.

And yet, we seem so convinced that we are.

I've learnt a lot through playing bridge, and the one thing I've seen virtually without fail is this:

Partners at the bridge table argue. A lot. Bridge clubs tend to be a lot of very bright people with substantial egos all in the one space in a competitive environment. Some players will critique virtually anything their partner does. If their partner makes a mistake, the critical person will instruct them - in front of the whole table - on how they could have done it better - made the contract - taken an extra trick - done it right - done it THEIR way - and why it was 'obvious to any idiot!'

I would say almost without fail, when this happens, on the very next hand the critique-er will make some sort of obvious error. On one hand they're full of advice. Very next hand? Crash and burn. I've seen this happen literally thousands of times.

So in my experience, whenever someone seems convinced they're right - it's a brief prelude to being horribly, publicly, wrong.

We all have to have values and we all have to make judgments, true. But in general, we'd be well paid to remember - we aren't as smart as we think we are.

 

[Gussie]

I think as human beings in general these days we tend to have too much to say for ourselves. However you want to apply it, saying less would be beneficial.

And no, I don't mean turning a blind eye to injustice. But just a few less opinions. Most of the time I wonder what on earth makes any of us think we're right on almost any given topic.

And yet, we seem so convinced that we are.

I've learnt a lot through playing bridge, and the one thing I've seen virtually without fail is this:

Partners at the bridge table argue. A lot. Bridge clubs tend to be a lot of very bright people with substantial egos all in the one space in a competitive environment. Some players will critique virtually anything their partner does. If their partner makes a mistake, the critical person will instruct them - in front of the whole table - on how they could have done it better - made the contract - taken an extra trick - done it right - done it THEIR way - and why it was 'obvious to any idiot!'

I would say almost without fail, when this happens, on the very next hand the critique-er will make some sort of obvious error. On one hand they're full of advice. Very next hand? Crash and burn. I've seen this happen literally thousands of times.

So in my experience, whenever someone seems convinced they're right - it's a brief prelude to being horribly, publicly, wrong.

We all have to have values and we all have to make judgments, true. But in general, we'd be well paid to remember - we aren't as smart as we think we are.

One of my dearest friends is a professional bridge player, 2 time World Champion I believe. We talk on the phone at least a few times a week. I definitely don't argue much when she thinks she's right about something! And it's not because I always agree with her!!!

Saying less is good for the soul!

 

[Austina]

I think the difference between a jewellery board in Monaco and US politics, is that the jewellery board doesn’t affect other countries, whereas politics in the US does affect other countries. So I respectfully disagree that any non US citizen doesn’t have a horse in the race.

I can only speak of my own experience, but watching news programmes in the US compared to those in the UK, we seem to have a lot more international news on a daily basis than I’ve seen in the US (obviously I may not have been watching the right US channels to base this opinion on?).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Agree with @missy that bullying in any form is nasty and should never be tolerated.

Depends what you meant by "bullying" ? .

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

We are not as smart as we think sometimes(Mrs B), and we are not as nice as we think we are. Those rabid people are mainly liberals,

There are other threads going on about pettiness, toxic people, and of course entitlements. How do you reconcile what you criticize about others and commend about yourselves with how you behave in controversial threads like the political ones.? Ella had to close a very simple thread that asked for a yes vote for a new idea presented. Can anyone explain why there is no self control, and the obvious rehashing of an issue that was settled. Oh, the entitlement issue. Once anything is said, it is open season to voice your opinion, YOU ARE ENTITLED. Well guess what, that's what causes bullying, pettiness and shows your disdain for others. It shows your disdain for Andrey as well. No-one asked for comments. Did someone report that thread? Someone says Butt Out, which is the correct response, and not rude- the others are rude interfering because they think they are entitled.

The sense of Self Importance on this board seems misplaced to me. Do you think Ella is kidding when she says "thats why you can't have nice things"? You fight about everything. You agree on nothing. Say less, and control yourselves and this place and admin will be better for it.

And yes, some posts should be reported.

Annette

 

[Matata]

@smitcompton Relieved to see your post here since the last I saw you were headed to hospital. Hope all is well with you. I neglected to thank you for the thread you started re: paid political forum and I apologize for that.

 

[lyra]

We have moderators to enforce the rules. I just scroll by stuff I don't like or don't agree with these days. It's just not worth it to me, and someone is actually getting paid to do the job.

 

[Calliecake]

@smitcompton , How are you? Are you doing well? Is there anything you need? I’m so happy to see you posting.

I was going to contact Ella later today with a count for those interested in the political thread. Do you still want me to do that? I’m not to hopeful after what happen the other night. I’m very disappointed. Hopefully we can come up with another alternative so those wanting to continue political discussions can do so off Pricescope.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'm back home, but with the usual Dr. follow-ups. Some bad news, but no Corona Virus. Old age keeps marching on. Can't stop it. Glad to be home.

I've started to enjoy DF when he signs off, Going to Lunch now. So I'm signing off, going to take a nap now. We should all know what each of us is doing at any time.

Callie, he ,Andrey may not be totally turned off. I counted 21 with our New Zealander Daisy--count her. We have some good people signed. Mention Yissie to him. She is a circumspect person who loves Pricescope and I bet Andrey knows who she is. Shes an asset. (IMO)

I'll post to you tomorrow, I hope. Nap-time

Annette

 

[1ofakind]

This right here is part of the problem. What is "objectionable" is a subjective matter. What is offensive to some is not to others. Many members have been on boards for some time and are not the tender snowflakes that others are. Why should the sensitive dictate what's acceptable for the whole group?

At the risk of beating the dead horse....What is objectionable is spelled out in the forum rules. Whatever room there is for subjectivity is at the discretion of the mods. The ‘snowflake’ members here (your choice of words, not mine) are not dictating what is acceptable. At most they report posts they feel are outside the forum rules and moderators handle it. There is no inherent power in the report button.

Your frustration may be a bit misdirected towards members who, if using the report feature properly, are simply abiding by forum rules.

 

[Tekate]

NAW..... I have pointed out NUMEROUS post today that fall outside what is acceptable, and low and behold, they are still here.. I call that hypocritical.. The inherent power in the report button ONLY works if the moderators are leaning to one side and not the other and that is obvious.. totally.

At the risk of beating the dead horse....What is objectionable is spelled out in the forum rules. Whatever room there is for subjectivity is at the discretion of the mods. The ‘snowflake’ members here (your choice of words, not mine) are not dictating what is acceptable. At most they report posts they feel are outside the forum rules and moderators handle it. There is no inherent power in the report button.

Your frustration may be a bit misdirected towards members who, if using the report feature properly, are simply abiding by forum rules.

 

[1ofakind]

NAW..... I have pointed out NUMEROUS post today that fall outside what is acceptable, and low and behold, they are still here.. I call that hypocritical.. The inherent power in the report button ONLY workds if the moderators are leaning to one side and not the other and that is obvious.. totally.

Did you report those posts?
Of course mods have discretion and you made the same point...it is not the members who hit the report button calling the shots here.

Also consider that hitting the button does not generate an instant response...even mods take breaks.

 

[OboeGal]

I was reading the discussion with interest, wondering what the mods were going to do. Then I read your post, which was very alienating to me.

I called you out on telling respected PSers to "BUTT OUT" and "that's none of your business". I don't recall you apologizing for that.

That is because I stand by what I said in that particular thread. That thread was full of disprespect of the whole intent of the thread and of @smitcompton. And tone and context matter, by the way - I said "please", I went out of my way to explain the perspective, and I went out of my way to explain that the views of people who didn't want to see or be tempted by political threads were absolutely respected by those of us who do want to be able to discuss these things together, which was why we were trying so hard to find a way to do it that would take those views into the utmost of consideration. I notice that all of that context gets left out by those seeking to vilify me over those words. I am not, nor have I ever been, an abusive person here, nor will I ever be, and what I stated in that thread, while strong-worded, was not abuse in my opinion. (I also don't believe the use of the word "butt" in that context is cursing.)

The lovely @smitcompton - who I'm very happy to see back! - has done a better and more succinct job of explaining it in her remarks above.

 

[Tekate]

No I didn't to be honest I thought we were adults an I was in an adult conversation and what came my way and what I sent was just differences of experiences and ideas. I think personally reported posts where those that were against another's political view and the report button allowed those who were of the opposite opinion were allowed more leeway than the liberal POV because the owners are conservative themselves, but this only MY opinion..

of course the mods have 'discretion' as it behooves them especially since they are right sided.

Did you report those posts?
Of course mods have discretion and you made the same point...it is not the members who hit the report button calling the shots here.

Also consider that hitting the button does not generate an instant response...even mods take breaks.

 

[stracci2000]

That is because I stand by what I said in that particular thread. That thread was full of disprespect of the whole intent of the thread and of @smitcompton. And tone and context matter, by the way - I said "please", I went out of my way to explain the perspective, and I went out of my way to explain that the views of people who didn't want to see or be tempted by political threads were absolutely respected by those of us who do want to be able to discuss these things together, which was why we were trying so hard to find a way to do it that would take those views into the utmost of consideration. I notice that all of that context gets left out by those seeking to vilify me over those words. I am not, nor have I ever been, an abusive person here, nor will I ever be, and what I stated in that thread, while strong-worded, was not abuse in my opinion. (I also don't believe the use of the word "butt" in that context is cursing.)

The lovely @smitcompton - who I'm very happy to see back! - has done a better and more succinct job of explaining it in her remarks above.

OboeGal, I have always read the political threads and agreed with your opinion every time.
I'm sorry that those threads were shut down, as they were very insightful and interesting. I will miss it, especially now.

I read these forums every day, and check for new posts all day.
I love PS. I really, really do.
It makes me very happy to come here and converse with other people who love jewelry as much as I do.

I'm not gonna fight with you. I just thought it was a poor choice of words. Forget it.
I hope you guys get your political forum, wherever you can.

 

[OboeGal]

OboeGal, I have always read the political threads and agreed with your opinion every time.
I'm sorry that those threads were shut down, as they were very insightful and interesting. I will miss it, especially now.

I read these forums every day, and check for new posts all day.
I love PS. I really, really do.
It makes me very happy to come here and converse with other people who love jewelry as much as I do.

I'm not gonna fight with you. I just thought it was a poor choice of words. Forget it.
I hope you guys get your political forum, wherever you can.

Thank you - your response is very gracious, and very appreciated. For what it's worth, I certainly didn't mean to, or desire to, hurt anyone in that thread, so if I did actually hurt someone, I will apologize for that, as that was not my intent.

And I'm always up for pie! Especially key lime. We had a key lime pie at our wedding rehearsal dinner in the Florida keys, and then our wedding cake the next day was part orange sunshine cake with buttercream frosting, and part white cake with key lime frosting. Yummmmm.......

 

[Dancing Fire]

This right here is part of the problem. What is "objectionable" is a subjective matter. What is offensive to some is not to others.

The problem is when every PSer become a moderator.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm gonna report you b/c I hate pies...

 

[1ofakind]

The problem is when every PSer become a moderator.

How are members acting as moderators when they are following the rules and have absolutely no power to delete a post or penalize it’s author? Reporting by itself is meaningless Without someone with actual power to take action.

Please remember that I am not one who reports posts...I just see no reason to blame members who do, according to forum rules. The rules are put in place by owners/admins of forums. It seems the argument should be there or with the members who break the rules requiring attention from mods.

Note...I am speaking conceptually, not at all proposing that anyone complain to admins of this forum. They make the rules and I agreed to abide by them...we all did.

 

[1ofakind]

I'm gonna report you b/c I hate pies...

I’m gonna report you for hating pie.

 

[stracci2000]

I'm gonna report you b/c I hate pies...

I never reported anyone, ever! And that's the truth!

 

[stracci2000]

And I'm always up for pie! Especially key lime

I love making home made Key lime pie. You gotta squeeze 10 or more of those itty bitty limes. But so worth it in the end!