Do I really need an independent appraisal??

[DaveN]

We are in the process of finding a stone at Good Old Gold. Jonathan and the company have a stellar reputation here at pricescope. I note that the forum has recommended an independent appraisal for all purchases but with a GIA certificate and a solid vendor is this really necessary??

 

[D&T]

I actually did not get an independent appraisal, I just used what I received from Whiteflash to insure my ring, and it was fine. If you bought from someone that you are unsure of, and/or second hand diamonds, then maybe for piece of mind, I would get it independently apprasied. I also just double checked with a local B&M just to make sure my diamond was the same as what my certificate states under their microscope and they had a gemologist on staff anyways, so it was no out of pocket for me, they were kind enough to do it for me.

 

[marcy]

I think the info you get from GOG would be more than enough but that''s just MHO. Their rep is quite good.

 

[jet2ks]

If you are confident and comfortable with everything, it is probably not necessary. For some people, the independent appraisal gives that extra confidence in their purchase.

I would also check with your insurance company to find how they would handle loss or theft, though. If an invoice or receipt is enough for them to base replacement value, then no problem. Some insurers may prefer an independent appraisal--all you can do is ask.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/2/2009 7:40:09 PM
Author: jet2ks
If you are confident and comfortable with everything, it is probably not necessary. For some people, the independent appraisal gives that extra confidence in their purchase.

I would also check with your insurance company to find how they would handle loss or theft, though. If an invoice or receipt is enough for them to base replacement value, then no problem. Some insurers may prefer an independent appraisal--all you can do is ask.

Ditto

 

[oldminer]

An professional appraiser ties up all the loose ends of an important purchase. The appraiser makes certain that the diamond is in the condition listed on the report at the time of delivery to you rather than months or even years ago when the repoart might have been made. The appraiser confirms the diamond is the correct diamond matching the report. It is not uncommon to see 1 carat diamonds getting mixed up in large dealer inventories. If your diamond is unique, then that is less likely to happen.
Finally, the appraiser puts on an independent opinion of value, confirms that the stone is set well in a properly constructed mounting and that the remaining questions you may have are all answered. If you do have a loss, the independent valuation of the appraiser is an excellent tool to force a very fair and proper settlement or replacement from your insurer.

You don''t need to get an appraisal because you only trust the seller at 99%, but there are other good reasons that consumers need appraisers. It is easier to cure a problem when the deal is very new than months or years later when it is basically your fault and too late.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I could not see any purpose in getting an independent appraisal on my diamonds from Good Old Gold because of all the extra info they give you on the stone. You can compare pricing easily enough on here, and I wanted to insure at the price we paid as opposed to some inflated appraisal amount.

 

[elle_chris]

If you''re comfortable with the report and appraisal furnished to you by the jeweler/vendor, no, there really isn''t a reason. But contact the insurance company and ask them what kind of documentation they expect.

If you''re insuring more than one piece under the same policy, I think it''s much easier to get one independant appraisal that lists all the iitems and total worth. But be careful that it''s not inflated or you''ll be paying a higher premium.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/3/2009 7:29:01 AM
Author: oldminer
An professional appraiser ties up all the loose ends of an important purchase. The appraiser makes certain that the diamond is in the condition listed on the report at the time of delivery to you rather than months or even years ago when the repoart might have been made. The appraiser confirms the diamond is the correct diamond matching the report. It is not uncommon to see 1 carat diamonds getting mixed up in large dealer inventories. If your diamond is unique, then that is less likely to happen.
Finally, the appraiser puts on an independent opinion of value, confirms that the stone is set well in a properly constructed mounting and that the remaining questions you may have are all answered. If you do have a loss, the independent valuation of the appraiser is an excellent tool to force a very fair and proper settlement or replacement from your insurer.

You don't need to get an appraisal because you only trust the seller at 99%, but there are other good reasons that consumers need appraisers. It is easier to cure a problem when the deal is very new than months or years later when it is basically your fault and too late.

David and I often disagree about this. I believe that the vending jeweler often knows more about the piece and prices of putting together that piece than any appraiser. Rather than issuing an appraisal, a jeweler will often issue an evaluation for insurance purposes. I have never not had that document accepted by an insurance company.

While I do not have any issues with someone who wants an appraisal, I have found that fewer than one in 20 ever have me send their diamond to appraiser. I believe it is very much an issue of trust, especially on the Internet where no one will buy from you if they do not already trust you.

Not surprisingly David and other appraisers often feel that you should have an appraisal. Actually, I think they make good points. It really boils down to how comfortable are you and what level of protection do you desire. If you only need a value for insurance purposes and trust your vendor completely, especially with a papered gem from either GIA or AGS, then you probably are going to be perfectly happy with the evaluation for insurance purposes issued by your jeweler.

If you have any doubts or just want to have that extra level of security then you probably should have an appraisal from an independent appraiser.

Wink

 

[oldminer]

Wink, we absolutely agree. 1 in 20 probably is close to the number of people who go to an appraiser directly after a purchase. It is for their peace of mind. I quote you: "If you have any doubts or just want to have that extra level of security then you probably should have an appraisal from an independent appraiser." Truth be told, if I were a consumer and I bought a diamond mounted in a ring directly from you, I would not feel like I needed an appraiser. You are not the norm when it comes to independent retailers. For every one like you there are hundreds of sellers who do not deserve any form of trust. I have learned to trust the vendors on Pricescope in the overall because we get so much shared feedback here, too. If there was a rotten apple, we''d hear about it. However, mistakes and inadvertent damage can occur. Appraisers are here to make the problems get fixed, not to make more headaches. It is up to the individual consumer how to proceed.

Appraisers are part of the process in buying many costly things, especially real estate. When you find that home to buy you should engage an independent real estate appraiser to go over not only the value, but the condition of the proposed home. The seller''s agent is not your buddy or good friend most of the time. They will give you all the right words, but you must realize they are in it to make the sale. If you prefer to take chances as most people do, then it is up to you alone to understand all the things which pertain to a transaction. Caveat emptor.

 

[litebrite]

I think it depends on how close you live to an appraiser and what your level of comfort is. For me, I find the cost of appraisal for large purchases to be a worthwhile investment, plus I have easy access to a good appraiser. Also if you get a custom setting, it''s necessarily.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

When you hire an independent appraiser during the purchase process, it is the only time you have somebody in that process who is working solely for you.

Sometimes it makes a difference. Sometimes it makes a BIG difference.

Not as often with vendors of such a high caliber as Pricescope vendors, but still, it does happen.

As one (of many) examples, one time I appraised a 2 carat stone that was AGS papered as a "J" color. Frankly, I thought it was a "K". I told the consumer it was a beautiful stone, but that if I hadn''t seen the AGS cert I would have graded it a "K". So I told them, "what you''re looking at here is a "low J" color, right on the borderline of "J-K". A fence straddler. (In the trade we refer to certed stones like this as "a lucky J". Usually a stone like this is priced a little bit better when it''s sold among the trade, and usually that savings is passed along to the consumer. In this case it wasn''t. It was priced like a full-bore "J".

The client went back to the vendor with my findings, and told them they liked the stone, but asked if they could get a discount because of the borderline color. The vendor gave them $1000 off.

Was that worth the price of a $125 appraisal? And did the client feel empowered with full knowledge of their stone?

I repeat. The only time you have someone strictly working for you during the purchase process is when you hire an independent appraiser.

 

[strmrdr]

I would not say that someone who wants one should not get one.
They are a nice value add and for your money you do get a lot.
Most of that is peace of mind.

On the other hand if your comfortable with your purchase and can do some simple checks to verify everything is ok then that is enough for some people.
Since gog provides great clarity pictures it is very easy for a vs to si diamond to match up the inclusions with the pictures in a lot of cases.
Checking the prongs to see if they are holding the diamond securely is also easy.
Checking the setting for obvious problems is also easy.
It is a matter of doing a little homework and taking a critical look at the diamond and ring.
It all depends on your comfort level.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/3/2009 11:27:15 PM
Author: strmrdr

On the other hand if your comfortable with your purchase and can do some simple checks to verify everything is ok then that is enough for some people.
Since gog provides great clarity pictures it is very easy for a vs to si diamond to match up the inclusions with the pictures in a lot of cases.
Checking the prongs to see if they are holding the diamond securely is also easy.
Checking the setting for obvious problems is also easy.

Storm, you have been at this so long that you regard these things as easy.

I would suggest that the majority of consumers have not.

Checking prongs for example, to see if they are "holding the diamond securely".

How would the consumer know the difference between a prong properly notched, and one notched where the prongs have been spread, and the bottom portion of the prong lays against the pavilion, setting it up for a "girdle to culet running cleavage" once the prong receives a substantial blow?

In "checking the setting", how would the average consumer know to spot porosity indicating a defective setting which threatens the loss of their stone?

Or, for that matter, whether certain inclusions threaten the durability of the diamond?

 

[Moh 10]

Twice I have brought a diamond directly to GIA to verify they matched the report.
A few years ago it cost $75 and the next time (6 weeks ago) it was free.
You do not have to work in the jewelry industry.
They will just create an account in your name.

I believe it is no longer free, but I believe it is less expensive than using an appraiser.
Note: I personally dropped off and picked up the diamonds.
If you don't live near NYC or San Diego CA you will have to pay for shipping.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/4/2009 12:19:47 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 8/3/2009 11:27:15 PM

Author: strmrdr


On the other hand if your comfortable with your purchase and can do some simple checks to verify everything is ok then that is enough for some people.

Since gog provides great clarity pictures it is very easy for a vs to si diamond to match up the inclusions with the pictures in a lot of cases.

Checking the prongs to see if they are holding the diamond securely is also easy.

Checking the setting for obvious problems is also easy.

Storm, you have been at this so long that you regard these things as easy.


I would suggest that the majority of consumers have not.


Checking prongs for example, to see if they are ''holding the diamond securely''.


How would the consumer know the difference between a prong properly notched, and one notched where the prongs have been spread, and the bottom portion of the prong lays against the pavilion, setting it up for a ''girdle to culet running cleavage'' once the prong receives a substantial blow?


In ''checking the setting'', how would the average consumer know to spot porosity indicating a defective setting which threatens the loss of their stone?


Or, for that matter, whether certain inclusions threaten the durability of the diamond?

Hi Rich
Would an appraiser see more than a consumer would when looking at ring? yes of course they would.
Can a consumer with a little study tell if there is a large issue with a ring? yes they can.

The thing is to find a balanced answer to the question that is truthful.
The right answer is someplace between no you don''t need one and everyone who buys a diamond has to have one.
Neither answer is 100% correct.
I think my answer was middle of the road between the extremes and proper.

 

[denverappraiser]

There are several primary reasons for seeking out an appraisal on new merchandise. The most important is to provide a second opinion on information provided by the dealer. This may include details about the grading on the stone, craftsmanship issues, authenticity of the designer and many other things. Some dealers provide a plethora of information and others provide next to nothing and the appraisal assignment will vary from correcting misinformation that the client picked up somewhere or providing more data that was simply omitted from the sales presentation. It’s not a second opinion if it comes from the same person as the first. Whether or not you need this depends on your confidence in your dealer. Diamonds can be a big budget item and necessary to rely heavily on expert opinions. Many, perhaps most,customers are more comfortable when they have a corroborating 3rd party opinion. It is very unusual for a dealer written or provided report to mention craftsmanship or material defects in the piece or anything else that''s likely to be deemed undesirable, even when they’re present.

The next big issue is documentation for insurance. As with the above, some dealers include an excellent paper trail and others can be incredibly Spartan about it. Meeting the minimum standards of the insurance companies is pretty easy, meeting the standards of a demanding customer can be pretty difficult. It’s pretty easy to decide if the paperwork you have is sufficient. Read it over without looking at the piece and ask yourself if the information provided is sufficient to replace the piece to your satisfaction in the case of a loss. Put another way, in the case of a loss, the usual behavior of the insurance company is to use the description from the appraisal to order in a new item. Not unreasonably, they will order the cheapest thing they can find that meets that description. If there’s something about your piece that’s important to you and that you would like to be considered in the replacement, make sure it’s mentioned and/or photographed in the appraisal report.

People always ask about prices and, I suppose because that’s what we’ve all come to expect from an ‘appraisal’ but, believe it or not, this is the one where they are most likely to already know the answer, at least if there’s no dispute over the grading or other factual details. They just went through the shopping process on that very item and in addition to knowing what they paid, they probably have a pretty good idea what it would have cost elsewhere. Although it’s nice to have confirmation that you paid a good price and I get asked this every time, this seems to me to be the least helpful area for seeking out a new purchase appraisal, especially by a customer who has done thorough research during the shopping process.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/4/2009 12:41:37 AM
Author: Moh 10
Twice I have brought a diamond directly to GIA to verify they matched the report.
A few years ago it cost $75 and the next time (6 weeks ago) it was free.

I believe it is no longer free, but I believe it is less expensive than using an appraiser.

Comparing a report verification to an appraisal is like comparing a blueberry to an apple. An appraisal contains FAR more information than a report verification, at a relatively minor additional cost.

Most gemologist appraisers will do a report check for quite a bit less than $75 as well, and probably give you more information than GIA''s simple yes or no.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/4/2009 9:37:22 AM
Author: strmrdr

Can a consumer with a little study tell if there is a large issue with a ring? yes they can.

We basically (but not entirely) agree on this.

But do most consumers invest the "little study" needed to recognize such things? In my experience, the vast majority do not.

Additionally, sometimes a "little study" just doesn''t cut it in recognizing poor setting jobs, defective mountings, fake designer rings, reproduction antique rings, hidden stone damage (under the prongs), inclusions which threaten structural integrity, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Moh 10]

Date: 8/4/2009 10:44:35 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 8/4/2009 12:41:37 AM

Author: Moh 10

Twice I have brought a diamond directly to GIA to verify they matched the report.

A few years ago it cost $75 and the next time (6 weeks ago) it was free.


I believe it is no longer free, but I believe it is less expensive than using an appraiser.

Comparing a report verification to an appraisal is like comparing a blueberry to an apple. An appraisal contains FAR more information than a report verification, at a relatively minor additional cost.


Most gemologist appraisers will do a report check for quite a bit less than $75 as well, and probably give you more information than GIA's simple yes or no.

Granted, I did not say they were the same.
I do not discount the validity of those other services.

In my case all I wanted was a simple no or yes this diamond matches the report.
I not only saw no need, but actually preferred, not introducing a third party.
I trust GIA.

If I ever did want all those other services I would not hesitate hiring an appraiser.

I suspect the vast majority of buyers from reputable Internet vendors just want a yes/no report verification.
They want to be sure they got the stone they paid for.
Even a reputable vendor could make an honest error.

 

[litebrite]

Moh, I didn''t know that GIA did this. How did you go about this, was there someone you worked with and did you have to set up an appointment?

 

[Moh 10]

Double post.

 

[Moh 10]

Just call the GIA and ask to speak to the lab.
I'm not sure you have to make an appointment but I did tell them when I was coming and what my report number was.
Security is very tight.
You feel as though you are entering a prison, except the facility is beautiful.
When you get there they check your ID and you fill out forms.

I went to the one in California.

I told them I'm not in the industry but just wanted to verify that a stone I bought online matched the report.
I brought in the stone and original report.
When completed, a few days later, they gave me a laminated verification letter in a sleeve like the one for the report.

Also a senior gemologist who graded colored diamonds for years graciously spent a long time with me in a private room.
She put my diamond under a microscope and showed me the inclusions, internal graining, and taught me lots about diamonds.

Luckily I did it right at the end of June while it was still free; they started to once again charge for verification as of July 1.

Another benefit of going to GIA is seeing the gems they had on display.
Here's a thread of the pics I took there.

Click here