divorce

[joflier]

I'm another one that made it through to the other side of a messy divorce situation. Before I made the choice to leave, I spent a lot of time fighting with the guilt and shame emotions of letting my family down. And also of all the hard earned money they had put into our wedding. My parents don't have much money, so that especially, was a very hard piece of the puzzle for me to put into perspective.
They are very conservative people, and I felt that I would become the 'black sheep' of the family by getting a divorce.
My parents (and my entire extended family) become such a strong and wonderful support system for me. I will always be grateful for all the help that they've given me through these last couple years.
I know it's tough to look past those inital fears that come with making 'the move', but a family's love and bond is so much greater and stronger than you can ever imagine. Be strong - you'll come out of all this a better and happier woman!

 

[House Cat]

A very wise person once told me that it takes a person a HUGE amount of effort to make a SMALL amount of change, and this is only in situations where the person actually WANTS to make that change.


Abusers only want to make changes when they feel they are losing power. Walk out the door and the begging will commence. If the begging works and you return, the honeymoon will commence. The moment he feels comfortable again, the abuse will commence.

Will he be different for someone else? Only in the beginning of the relationship.


Yes, I know I sound jaded. I've BTDT a couple of times.

 

[CrazyMaybe]

Hi everyone,

I thought I would update you all. I am still living apart from my husband. We went to a couples counseling session last week and it seemed to go well. I didn't really feel like I got much out of it. Honestly, I felt like the counselor was just telling him things I have been trying to tell him for the past few months. I also am feeling very negative about the likelihood he will change for good or even be able to implement the skills he is learning. He is smart and I know he understands what he needs to do to not react so abruptly in situations, but I am not sure you will actually be able to utilize the skills he is learning. I am feeling like I am heading more the divorce route because I am so negative about ever being able to trust him to not flip out on me. I still feel guilty (not about other people now) but about him and how alone he will be if I leave him. I also know that once I actually make a decision I will have to tell more than five people about what is going on. I am not looking forward to telling people I am not very close with what is going on. I won't tell them specifics. I don't even tell the people the closest to me the specifics of what has happened. I think I am scared about what they will think of me for being with someone who treats me so poorly. I have told ONE friend exactly what happened because she has personal experience with what I am going through so I knew she wouldn't be judgmental.

But I am also feeling pretty dumb recently for even getting into this situation. A few people have asked, "Didn't you know he was like this when you married him?" Of course, I knew he had tendencies to flip-out but I never imagined what he was like and I think I was blinded by who knows what love, insecurity? I have no idea. I still am just really confused in general. I do not want to make any hasty decisions. I have another counseling session with him next week. He seems to really want to change right now, but I know he is trying to win me back at this point so it is hard to know what is real.

I know this post is pretty stream of conscious, sorry about that! Hopefully it makes some sense.


CM

 

[House Cat]

People who have been abused usually have a difficult time with healthy boundaries. You REALLY don't have to give explanations to people as to why you are getting a divorce. A quick, "it didn't work out." is a good enough response for those you don't know well. If you really feel that you have to explain it to others, maybe you should first do a gut check and ask yourself why you feel the need to reveal these details of your life. If you still feel good about it, then maybe move forward with caution.

Your husband needs individual therapy (and you probalby do too.) This is why your "couple's" sessions are more like you sitting in on a session for him. He needs SO MUCH help, that the two of you probably aren't going to touch on the relationship for a very long time. You might skim here and there, but when a partner is so wounded, like your husband, then he can't really concentrate on something like a relationship. He needs to spend a good long time looking at himself.

Who really cares if you knew he was like this or not? We all have our reasons for loving someone. Sometimes, we have hopes that this person that we love so much will love us just enough to stop hurting us. Maybe we think it's not really that bad. Some of us have grown up in abusive homes and it feels normal. Others think they might be able to change him. These are all very big hearted, loving reasons to be with an abusive partner. The other reasons I've left out are usually very loving as well. You were open hearted, loving, and willing to love unconditionally. There is nothing wrong with that. What is *unfortunate* is that your husband is someone who hurts people who love him.

 

[Izzy03]

Hey Crazy~

I am so proud of you for sticking to your guns! I have a feeling that your situation will be in limbo for longer than you would like because you sound torn between emotions, but you started the process of moving towards the next step, whatever that may be. I also think that everything you are feeling (embarrassment about letting someone treat you poorly, embarrassment about putting yourself in the situation) is completely normal!!!! I say that because I feel the exact same way about my situation, and I have heard others in our situation make similar comments.

You have so much going on right now and you really deserve time to speak with someone about how this situation is affecting YOU and ONLY YOU!!! It is so great that you are seeking counseling together, but I still urge you to see another therapist by yourself. Right now the ball is in your court and that is a lot of pressure!!!

I definitely know how you feel about being having little hope for the future of the marriage! While things have been better at home (for now at least), I find myself wondering if I still love my husband after all he has put me through.

I hope things get easier for you soon! You are one strong woman!

 

[movie zombie]

Crazy, you are responsible for yourself.....and he for himself. you have enough on your plate w/o worrying about him. you owe no one an explanation as to why it didn't work out. if someone does ask you for more detail just tell them that you're more comfortable in talking to your counselor.

i agree that you would do well to pursue counseling on your own. and the anger you feel at yourself is natural at this point in time. it is one of the 5 stages of grief....and separation and/or divorce elicits these same stages. don't be too hard on yourself: you're taking steps to have a healthy life. its not easy. but you should be proud of yourself.

MoZo

 

[Pandora II]

Could I suggest getting a copy of 'Women Who Love Too Much'. I think you might find parts of it very helpful right now.

Well done for getting out!

 

[movie zombie]

its a great book...i found it helpful.

MoZo

 

[CrazyMaybe]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to post an update. I am still currently living apart from my husband. I am spending the weekend with him this weekend to see how it goes. He has been going to counseling and anger management. I am just confused. Some days I think I should leave and am very sure about it. Other days i feel like I should stay. I think part of me just doesn't want to have to start all over again. All of my friends are getting married and having babies and it seems so stressful to be back at the starting line. Seriously when I logged onto facebook two of my friends had new babies in the last three days, and I got three save the dates in the past two weeks. I know its a dumb reason to stay, but I can't help but think about it.

Also, when I hang out with my husband is very good and seems to be taking all of this seriously. I just have extreme doubts because of what everyone has mentioned re: people like him getting better. I also think about if I can get over how he's behaved and if it will change for sure. So I am just trying to work through it.

 

[decodelighted]

A very wise person once told me that it takes a person a HUGE amount of effort to make a SMALL amount of change, and this is only in situations where the person actually WANTS to make that change.

Abusers only want to make changes when they feel they are losing power. Walk out the door and the begging will commence. If the begging works and you return, the honeymoon will commence. The moment he feels comfortable again, the abuse will commence.

Will he be different for someone else? Only in the beginning of the relationship. Yes, I know I sound jaded. I've BTDT a couple of times.

I just felt like this post needed to be repeated at this juncture.

 

[decodelighted]

Seriously when I logged onto facebook two of my friends had new babies in the last three days, and I got three save the dates in the past two weeks. I know its a dumb reason to stay, but I can't help but think about it.

How many of those brides-to-bes would marry your husband knowing what you know about him NOW? How many of those moms-to-be would want to reproduce and co-parent with your husband? Then ask yourself: why do you deserve LESS than they do? Why do you choose less, accept less.

Life is a continuum. There is no "starting point". There's dealing with things as they come and making the best decisions for yourself as you know better. As you want better. Don't waste your time trying to keep up with your friends' lives ....

 

[junebug17]

Seriously when I logged onto facebook two of my friends had new babies in the last three days, and I got three save the dates in the past two weeks. I know its a dumb reason to stay, but I can't help but think about it.

How many of those brides-to-bes would marry your husband knowing what you know about him NOW? How many of those moms-to-be would want to reproduce and co-parent with your husband? Then ask yourself: why do you deserve LESS than they do? Why do you choose less, accept less.

Life is a continuum. There is no "starting point". There's dealing with things as they come and making the best decisions for yourself as you know better. As you want better. Don't waste your time trying to keep up with your friends' lives ....

Thanks for the update crazymaybe.

Yeah, deco's post pretty much sums up how I feel about the situation too.

The next time you're feeling down about how your friends seem to be moving on, re-read your first post to this thread. And ask yourself if any of your friends would marry and have children with the man described in that post. I guess I sound a little hard-hearted, and I'm sorry, but you seem to be drifting towards emotion and I think you need to view this a little more logically. Your friends are in different situations. You really can't compare yourself to them. You're in a different place. You're dealing with different issues.

As for your husband behaving in a good way right now...well, yeah, he's trying to "win" you back, since he now knows you won't tolerate his behavior and you've stood up for yourself (something, btw, you should feel very proud of, some women can't or won't). As for whether this is a permanent change, well, I don't think anyone can answer that for sure...but I did notice a line in your first post: "My husband has always had a bit of an anger issue..." Not really sure exactly what that means, but the fact that you noticed his anger even before you were married makes me think it may just be a part of his personality, the way he's wired, and that's a tough thing to change. Obviously I don't know your husband, and what you mean by anger issue, but I'm just throwing out food for thought, I guess.

You're taking care of yourself, you're looking out for yourself. Just keep on doing what's best for you, and don't worry about your friends. I truly admire your strength, I know this must be very hard.

 

[zoebartlett]

CrazyMaybe -- I haven't posted in this thread yet because you've gotten very good advice and I didn't have anything further to add. I did want to comment on your most recent post though.

I can understand how you feel when you see what others around you have and you're not at that place. That's not reason enough, though, to stay with someone who doesn't treat you well. I think Deco and Junebug make very good points.

 

[movie zombie]

its going to take years for him to make lasting changes. one weekend of honeymoon bliss isn't how you judge what you want your life to be like!

i'd also posit that when you see what is happening in the life of your friends, you're in fact wanting a different life than you have. you look at what is happening with them and want it for yourself. normal reaction. but you don't have it because you're with this man.

a very long separation.....a year or more....is the only way you're going to know if he's really doing the work necessary. he has a lot to prove. be fair to you both and give him the time to do it. if either of you aren't willing to take the time necessary, well, to say i'm not optimistic and concerned re your safety is an understatement.

agreeing to spend a weekend with him after this short a time is imo a very big mistake.

i wish you a lot of luck and hope you read the book.

MoZo

 

[AGBF]

I don't think I was the first from PS to get divorced due to this particular issue, but I might have been among the few who ended up admitting that my marriage had flaws that weren't typical. It was really hard for me to come back here after having talked about what a great husband I had and presenting pics and stories of jewelry and fab trips and whatnot. We didn't have children, either--similar to you. Please don't waste any more precious time in your life standing by someone who isn't treating you right.

You were a great power of example, Monnie. I am going through a divorce now, and I don't know if I'd have mentioned it under my own name if you hadn't already done the same thing under yours.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Deb, sorry to hear that. Wishing you the best.

Crazy, the best thing about divorce (well, depending on who you ask) is you can't get it done in a day. If you don't know what you want to do, don't make any major decisions. Decisions made out of emotions are rarely the right ones.

 

[CrazyMaybe]

Hi everyone,

So it has been about a month since I moved out. My husband is in counseling and anger management and has turned to religion. He seemed to be getting a bit better. We had one fight over something done, he did say something sort of mean to me, but it didn't escalate and we were able to talk it out. But then last week he just snapped again. He was upset about something I had said the day before and of course didn't talk to me about it then, he let it stew. Well, he called me up and told me he was done with me and basically told me he hated everything about my personalty and that he was going to leave all my stuff at the curb. Then he called me up later to say he was cutting me off financially because he didn't want to support me if I wasn't sure I wanted to be with him. Obviously, I was upset and from how he was speaking I figured things were over because he seemed so serious and stuck with this mentality all day and all night. Then the next morning he calls me and apoligizes and says he wants to be with me etc Since then he has been extremely nice and really seems to have a different perspective on things. However, I am scared this is just another cycle of being mean then sucking up. I just really am having a hard time believing people like him can really change. I try and do research on it and everything says that it is unlikely he will change. However, I must admit he does seem to be really making an effort and does acknowlege he is the one that is wrong and has screwed everything up and is doing the therapy etc. However, he says last time we weren't trying the "nice approach" (i.e. he means last week). If that isn't what we were going I don't know what we were doing!!

But I also really just want to move on with my life. I am sick of all these "last chances" and whenever I do try and end it for real he convinces me not to. I just don't know if I am wasting my time. And even when I feel like I should say good-bye for good, I can't bring myself to do it because I think maybe he can change, even though I don't feel like wasting more time and possibly find someone who treats me appropriately.
Just venting!
CM

 

[CrazyMaybe]

Oh and we are still living apart. although, our couples counselor thinks I should move back in, which I have am NOT doing.

 

[lulu]

Wow, crazy advice from the couples' counselor. I would leave and not look back. He sounds unpredictable and untrustworthy and you deserve better. People can change, but they rarely do.

 

[movie zombie]

deep down you know you what needs to be done. you can't move on until you close the door behind you.

MoZo

ps turning to religion is not unusual in these instances....

 

[swingirl]

Oh and we are still living apart. although, our couples counselor thinks I should move back in, which I have am NOT doing.

Good for you. Couple's counselors are working for "the couple" and working to keep their client, the couple, together. That may not be the best thing for you as an individual. You need to do what is best for you and your future.

I could never trust someone who told me they hated everything about me. That would be a deal breaker with no "take backs", no apologies.

 

[iheartscience]

Wow, crazy advice from the couples' counselor. I would leave and not look back. He sounds unpredictable and untrustworthy and you deserve better. People can change, but they rarely do.

I agree. CM, you know what you need to do. It certainly doesn't sound like he's changed at all, and I think you're past the point of caring if he does change. Hugs to you, and please be careful. I'm afraid he could do more than just yell once you leave him for good.

 

[junebug17]

Sorry, but your husband scares me crazy. He sounds unstable and mean. He's acting like this, when he's supposed to be trying? Sounds to me like he has to constantly battle with himself to act like a normal person. I seriously doubt he's going to be able to change.

 

[CrazyMaybe]

I know everyone is probably right. Its just hard to actually do, especially because I have tried to end things for good and he seems to just ignore me telling him its over and begs/pleads etc.

 

[movie zombie]

Crazy, ending things means stopping contact. you can't be persuaded if you're not talking to him......think about it. you're giving him mixed messages when you state its over and then allow yourself to remain in contact and be persuaded. you're setting up another cycle of emotional abuse....this time for both of you.

either mean it when you tell him you're done....or don't say it. sorry to be so harsh but you're a player in this cycle as well.

MoZo

 

[decodelighted]

You ARE wasting your time every second you have any contact with him. You're also encouraging him. And, as Moviezombie said, playing a crucial role in a terrible cycle. He's mean. He's always gonna be mean. You can't work with *mean*. Its who he is. Probably a personality disorder. (They don't get better w/therapy generally).

You need an INDIVIDUAL THERAPIST. Not a couples counselor.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I know everyone is probably right. Its just hard to actually do, especially because I have tried to end things for good and he seems to just ignore me telling him its over and begs/pleads etc.

Abuse in all its forms is about power. Even whe nyou leave, if you maintain contact, then he is able to try to control you still. Begging and pleading is controlling you. I also suggest that you cut contact and see an individual counsellor if you are serious about change. See how much effort he puts into change if you are not with him and he cannot get his fix by controlling you Give it 3-6 months with no contact. I don't want to sound jaded, but in that time he will likely find another woman. That is what men like this do. And if he does not, and in that time proves his ability to change though therapy and religion, well then more power to him and to you. But that will be the only test.

ETA: The threads I referenced are deleted.

 

[Dreamer_D]

A very wise person once told me that it takes a person a HUGE amount of effort to make a SMALL amount of change, and this is only in situations where the person actually WANTS to make that change.

Abusers only want to make changes when they feel they are losing power. Walk out the door and the begging will commence. If the begging works and you return, the honeymoon will commence. The moment he feels comfortable again, the abuse will commence.

Will he be different for someone else? Only in the beginning of the relationship. Yes, I know I sound jaded. I've BTDT a couple of times.

I just felt like this post needed to be repeated at this juncture.

And again at this juncture too.

***

And it is normal to feel jealous of your friends having life experiences you want to have. I have been there when I was in a bad relationship. But, wait 5 years and some of them will be where you are now (that is just life). And also, take your yearning as a wake up call about what is missing in your current relationship, not as a message to stay in a bad relationship. My jealousy of some friends' seeming happiness (I say seeming because I do not actually know what the quality of their relationship was like, you can't know that unless you live with a couple for a week in my opinion ) was a big part of what prompted me to leave my a-hole ex. This was after he had been telling me repeatedly for years he would never marry me because I was not thin enough, or classy enough. I am a smart cookie, but took that abuse, along with much much worse. And I never told anyone until it was ancient history. Any friends you have who are making you feel a fool are just young an inexperienced. Most women, if they date long enough, will be in your shoes at one point in their lives, unfortunately.

 

[mary poppins]

Hi everyone,

So it has been about a month since I moved out. My husband is in counseling and anger management and has turned to religion. He seemed to be getting a bit better. We had one fight over something done, he did say something sort of mean to me, but it didn't escalate and we were able to talk it out. But then last week he just snapped again. He was upset about something I had said the day before and of course didn't talk to me about it then, he let it stew. Well, he called me up and told me he was done with me and basically told me he hated everything about my personalty and that he was going to leave all my stuff at the curb. Then he called me up later to say he was cutting me off financially because he didn't want to support me if I wasn't sure I wanted to be with him. Obviously, I was upset and from how he was speaking I figured things were over because he seemed so serious and stuck with this mentality all day and all night. Then the next morning he calls me and apoligizes and says he wants to be with me etc Since then he has been extremely nice and really seems to have a different perspective on things. However, I am scared this is just another cycle of being mean then sucking up. I just really am having a hard time believing people like him can really change. I try and do research on it and everything says that it is unlikely he will change. However, I must admit he does seem to be really making an effort and does acknowlege he is the one that is wrong and has screwed everything up and is doing the therapy etc. However, he says last time we weren't trying the "nice approach" (i.e. he means last week). If that isn't what we were going I don't know what we were doing!!

But I also really just want to move on with my life. I am sick of all these "last chances" and whenever I do try and end it for real he convinces me not to. I just don't know if I am wasting my time. And even when I feel like I should say good-bye for good, I can't bring myself to do it because I think maybe he can change, even though I don't feel like wasting more time and possibly find someone who treats me appropriately.
Just venting!
CM

This is no way for one person in a relationship to treat another. And to do so repeatedly? No. These cycles of abuse are not good for your mental health or self esteem. You can choose to say things are over and put an end to it rather than be at his mercy. I would cut off all contact and move on (but that's just me, and probably easier said than done). People like this don't change. They stay with the current target or move on to the next one. Find a counselor for individual therapy for yourself.

 

[decodelighted]

I believe there is a simple rule about spotting controlling behavior .... anyone who persists in trying to convince you of something after you've said "No" is trying to control you.

Begging, pleading etc ... all attempts at controlling another person. This rule might make people check their OWN behavior as well. I used to beg & plead etc before I realized how manipulative and controlling and potentially emotionally abusive it really is.