divorce

[Dreamer_D]

I believe there is a simple rule about spotting controlling behavior .... anyone who persists in trying to convince you of something after you've said "No" is trying to control you.

Begging, pleading etc ... all attempts at controlling another person. This rule might make people check their OWN behavior as well. I used to beg & plead etc before I realized how manipulative and controlling and potentially emotionally abusive it really is.

This is a very good point! Nagging is controlling as well.

 

[AGBF]

I believe there is a simple rule about spotting controlling behavior .... anyone who persists in trying to convince you of something after you've said "No" is trying to control you.

Begging, pleading etc ... all attempts at controlling another person. This rule might make people check their OWN behavior as well. I used to beg & plead etc before I realized how manipulative and controlling and potentially emotionally abusive it really is.

This is a very good point! Nagging is controlling as well.

I'm having a problem with this whole line of thinking. We all, in many ways, both conscious and unconscious, attempt to influence the behavior of others. Is pleading or nagging- because it is open-worse than, say, being seductive? Are people not supposed to try to achieve their own ends in life? I see this behavior as normal, but I see it on a continuum. When it gets too far to one end of the continuum, it becomes unhealthy. But everyone pursues his own interests to some extent!

Deb/AGBF

 

[swingirl]

Nagging, pleading, begging——normal? Not in my marriage.

 

[decodelighted]

I believe there is a simple rule about spotting controlling behavior .... anyone who persists in trying to convince you of something after you've said "No" is trying to control you.

Begging, pleading etc ... all attempts at controlling another person. This rule might make people check their OWN behavior as well. I used to beg & plead etc before I realized how manipulative and controlling and potentially emotionally abusive it really is.

This is a very good point! Nagging is controlling as well.

I'm having a problem with this whole line of thinking. We all, in many ways, both conscious and unconscious, attempt to influence the behavior of others. Is pleading or nagging- because it is open-worse than, say, being seductive? Are people not supposed to try to achieve their own ends in life? I see this behavior as normal, but I see it on a continuum. When it gets too far to one end of the continuum, it becomes unhealthy. But everyone pursues his own interests to some extent!

Deb/AGBF

I see both sides. I think what the "test" is supposed to make you conscious of is how *HARD* people persist in trying to control you. And whether it is a pattern in many different areas. And being conscious of whether the areas are even anyone else's business. Someone trying to influence your, say, attire. Why does it matter to them? If they PERSIST then you can step back & think ... why are they SO INVESTED? Is this about CONTROL or about an OUTFIT, yanno? Helps people focus on what the real issue in the relationship is -- rather than the *topics*. I'd guess most folks can take "no" for an answer, even if they don't LIKE it. When you are advocating for your own interests at the EXPENSE of other people's interests REPEATEDLY -- that's *controlling*, in my opinion.

That test really did open my eyes though ... about how controlling *I* could be ... just trying to get someone to agree to a lunch date or something. No means no. Yanno?

 

[HollyS]

Oh and we are still living apart. although, our couples counselor thinks I should move back in, which I have am NOT doing.

Stop going to this idiot counselor. Stop telling yourself that maybe things can change. They won't. Tell your husband where he can go, and what he can do with himself, and file for divorce.

I know that's blunt. But I'm right. I've lived enough years to know that I'm absolutely, 100 percent right.

There is no other answer. He will not change. Not soon, not in the future. Never. He is, and always will be, an abuser. Whether it is emotional or physical, it's all abuse.

Do not believe him. Do not return to him. Do not fool yourself.

Kick his patootie to the curb and get yourself a new life without his drama.

 

[AGBF]

Nagging, pleading, begging——normal? Not in my marriage.

Actually, I was thinking of parenting a teenager when I when I thought of these things. Boy, have I ever done all of 'em!!! (And called the police, too.)

Deb/AGBF

 

[Dreamer_D]

I believe there is a simple rule about spotting controlling behavior .... anyone who persists in trying to convince you of something after you've said "No" is trying to control you.

Begging, pleading etc ... all attempts at controlling another person. This rule might make people check their OWN behavior as well. I used to beg & plead etc before I realized how manipulative and controlling and potentially emotionally abusive it really is.

This is a very good point! Nagging is controlling as well.

I'm having a problem with this whole line of thinking. We all, in many ways, both conscious and unconscious, attempt to influence the behavior of others. Is pleading or nagging- because it is open-worse than, say, being seductive? Are people not supposed to try to achieve their own ends in life? I see this behavior as normal, but I see it on a continuum. When it gets too far to one end of the continuum, it becomes unhealthy. But everyone pursues his own interests to some extent!

Deb/AGBF

I see both sides. I think what the "test" is supposed to make you conscious of is how *HARD* people persist in trying to control you. And whether it is a pattern in many different areas. And being conscious of whether the areas are even anyone else's business. Someone trying to influence your, say, attire. Why does it matter to them? If they PERSIST then you can step back & think ... why are they SO INVESTED? Is this about CONTROL or about an OUTFIT, yanno? Helps people focus on what the real issue in the relationship is -- rather than the *topics*. I'd guess most folks can take "no" for an answer, even if they don't LIKE it. When you are advocating for your own interests at the EXPENSE of other people's interests REPEATEDLY -- that's *controlling*, in my opinion.

That test really did open my eyes though ... about how controlling *I* could be ... just trying to get someone to agree to a lunch date or something. No means no. Yanno?

My thinking is along the lines of Deco on this one as well, though Deb you raise a good point. Tacori's hoola hoop metaphor is something I think about a lot (she did not make it up, but brought it up on PS). When someone is nagging and begging and pleading about something essentially outside of thier hoop -- i.e., something that's not really their business when it comes right down to it -- then it is controlling. My mom is like this I am fine with her suggesting once that I take vitamins. I am not fine with her talking about it non-stop forever in an attempt to wear me down to comply with her wishes, because frankly, it is none of her darn business at this point in our lives! This is a general problem she has, in my opinion, and it is about controlling others in a bid to feel power and influence and quell anxiety through the illusion of control/invulnerability/power that such attempts can give to the controller. But I do think when taken too far it has negative repercussions on people's relationships.

I also am trying to be more aware of this in my own life, trying to control others. And in my marriage especially. Ultimately, many of my husband's behaviors are not my business or responsibility and I have to accept that. If his actions impact me, then it becomes my business. But ultimately we control no one but ourselves and accepting that can make us a lot happier.

I think where the type of influence you are talking about Deb, that is normative and even healthy, might be where one tries to influence the outcomes of shared tasks/goals/decisions, like which movie to see, where to live, and on and on. But just because more extreme forms of influence that perhaps cross the bounds into controlling behavior are normative, does not make them healthy. And I think many many times the types of behaviors we are all talking about here -- like trying to force a relationship partner to stay in the relationship -- are not healthy to the functioning of a relationship and satisfaction of both members' needs for autonomy.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Please. Leave.

I used to work at a walk in urgent care facility. I will always remember the woman who came in who admitted that her husband "got physical" with her. She was bruised on her face and shoulders {this was in the late 80s, before reporting was mandatory}. Our nurse spoke with her and gave her the name and number of two shelters. She declined. Two days later we read inthe paper she died in a domestic dispute.. {this is an absolutely TRUE STORY, unfortunately}.

If I were your parent I would BEG you to pack a bag and leave.

Please. Leave.

edited to say: OK, I read the whole entire thread. It is WONDERFUL that you have moved out. If I were you I would fire your couples counselor and find a good individual therapist and NOT SEE my husband AT ALL for six months to a year. I would let my lawyer deal with him. His actions are erratic and I would not want to be alone with him. I feel that you are downplaying the potential danger this man can hold in your life. He is NOT going to have come kind of magical transformation in the next two or three months and and I am afraid for you.

 

[rareonesee]

When I was in my early 20's I dated a guy that totally controlled me. He wanted to know where I was every waking moment. He wanted to know what I was wearing every day. He wanted to know who my friends. And if I was out with them needed to know when I would return. He stalked me at times watching from around the corner in his car to make sure I was where I said I was (freaky) He was verbally abusive and then later it turned to physical abuse. I was so devastated and felt trapped but after four years of a roller coaster ride; I decided to get off! Thank God I did. I think now looking back, I could have ended up seriously hurt had I stayed. I am a Social Worker today and definately recommend people to rethink trying to "make it work" if they are so overly obsessed as I have mentioned in the beginning of this statement. Some people unfortunately can not change. Just remember now matter how hard it is you are never truly, "Stuck". You can get out.

 

[AGBF]

Just remember now matter how hard it is you are never truly, "Stuck". You can get out.

I'm on your side of the argument here, rareonesee, but to get technical...think about Nicole Simpson. Not every woman makes it out alive, and even if she leaves a lot of photos and writing saying that if anything happens to her that it was her husband who did it, her husband may get off. So my advice is to be super, super, super careful when you leave!

Deb/AGBF

 

[Winks_Elf]

I think the wisest thing you can do is get a restraining order, a lawyer, and a divorce. I don't know what state you live in, but in NJ mental abuse is grounds for a divorce. Get the rest of your belongings from the household, with the police present, and let the rest of the communications go through lawyers.

No one deserves to be humiliated by their partner, whether in private or in public. Fearing your partner's reactions is a huge red flag for escalation of abuse in the future.

You have not failed at marriage. Your husband failed you. Cut your losses as quickly as possible while you are still young enough to repair the damage he did to your self esteem. When you are healed, allow yourself to fall in love again. You deserve to be happy! Divorce is messy business, but since you have not been married very long and have no children, it will be a lot easier than most divorces that do involve children.

I wish you strength, happiness, and peace.

 

[CrazyMaybe]

So I did it! I told him I wanted a divorce and meant it. I even told more than my family. I only tell people if the conversation forces me to. But it is making it feel more real. When I start second guessing myself I just think about something awful he has done to me and that is enough to confirm I am making the right decision. He is actually being suprisingly civil about the whole thing, which makes it a little bit more difficult. If he was being a huge jerk it would be easier. But, its real now!

 

[mary poppins]

So I did it! I told him I wanted a divorce and meant it. I even told more than my family. I only tell people if the conversation forces me to. But it is making it feel more real. When I start second guessing myself I just think about something awful he has done to me and that is enough to confirm I am making the right decision. He is actually being suprisingly civil about the whole thing, which makes it a little bit more difficult. If he was being a huge jerk it would be easier. But, its real now!

Congratulations on taking that big step. From what you've disclosed in this thread, I definitely think you made the right decision. I was really worried about your wellbeing (and, to tell the truth, still am). I hope things stay civil between the two of your during the process. I wish you all the best.

 

[movie zombie]

you have opened the door to a new life with the real you. you will still have bad days but you've already figured out how to handle that!!!!!! stay strong!

MoZo

 

[phoenixgirl]

Good for you!!!!!

 

[iheartscience]

I'm so glad you've decided to get a divorce. From your posts it seems like that's the best and only option. Best of luck to you and please keep us posted on how you're doing!

 

[suchende]

Can I suggest you try a support group/continuing with some form of therapy? I got out of a relationship that sounded a lot like yours (aggression/anger but always short of really hitting me, etc) and I didn't realize the ways it had impacted me until I got into the next relationship. I wish I'd done a better job finding ways to let myself heal.

 

[mayerling]

I haven't read through all the posts, but I jumped in to wish you all the best Crazy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am glad you made a move! Talk to as many people as you can, seek out supports from people who have been through the same things, and keep moving forward. You will be so much happier in the long term!