Dismal New Jersey beryl quest

[drov]

The search for anyone who can back up their colored gemstones with a certificate of authenticity in New Jersey is a head pounding cement wall experience for me.

I''m looking for a simple ring for my wife with a nice authentic gemstone Beryl type (for it''s hardness and toughness.) And perhaps a little diamond accent around it.

If I walk into a shop and they tell me it''s an authentic alexandrite and I ask for a certificate or anything to show me it''s not synthetic, they stare at the floor and shake their head "no". If I ask if the ruby is synthetic they say "no" but do not have proof for me to view.

This isn''t a rant..just a shout to anyone who knows of anyone in New Jersey who can help me out before my 5th anniversary April 1''st. My wife doesn''t care much for diamonds and I got the idea of a nice colored stone as a focal point for a ring and after doing my homework online and sites like this, find no one has anything to offer where I live or they are not able to back up their "genuine gems" with PROOF.

Thanks for any help I''m in the central Jersey area but will road trip for a good source.

 

[widget]

Hi, Drove:

Certification from a major gem lab (GIA, AGTA, AGL, etc) is expensive and usually not cost effective for less "important" gemstones.

I would shop only at retailers with solid, longstanding reputations and that have a return policy in place. Then, if you want , you could have any piece you choose checked out by an independent third-party gemologist/appraiser, at your expense.

I personally think it highly unlikely that any REPUTABLE DEALER, either on-line or storefront, would be passing off synthetic gemstones as natural...

widget

 

[valeria101]

Diamonds get certified even if not top-of-the-world valuable.... for colored gems "certs" have not caught up that well yet.

I can imagine it is not easy to find a certified colored gem locally anywhere. But... anything can be sent to a lab upon your request to obtain the desired ID. That kind of servise should be easy to obtain. Lab reports are not a fortune and in a few weeks you should have your paper. Completeld rings can also be certified (with some constraints).

On the net, Multicolor provides lab reports from AIGS - either by default for some important pieces, or by request for everything.

Hope some of this helps.


Btw. what is "beryl" - something green? yellow ? pink? red ???? white

This must be the first time I hear about "beryl" as object of shopping instead of the typical trade name for one of the colors. Just curious.

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/20/2005 9:52:14 AM
Author: widget
Hi, Drove:
Certification from a major gem lab (GIA, AGTA, AGL, etc) is expensive and usually not cost effective for less 'important' gemstones.

I would shop only at retailers with solid, longstanding reputations and that have a return policy in place. Then, if you want , you could have any piece you choose checked out by an independent third-party gemologist/appraiser, at your expense.

widget

Agree fully

. Find a good independent appraiser with the right lab equipment and you will have the backup and paper work you need to prove its the real deal - AND - what it is worth.

 

[Hest88]

I don''t suppose you''re willing to buy on the Internet are you? If you are, I''d contact www.diamondexpert.com or www.winkjones.com and ask for their assistance. It may end up faster than if you trekked around, since you can do it over the phone, and both are trustworthy and familiar with colored gems.

 

[drov]

Thank you all for the response and advice. To reply:

Widget: Exactly what I was thinking in regards to certification, cost and the "less important gems". I gave myself a crash course on colored stones and followed links and read posts from this site and knew I had to be reasonable in regards to the local shops entertaining what they felt was a sale they didn''t want to put too much time into. I just got a bad feeling from this shop in Princeton NJ I was in who gave me the impression they had a lot of stones to show and when I got there it was slim. The one alexandrite they had which they said was not synthetic was over $4000 with two small diamonds also. I asked for any proof of the stone''s authenticity and they were blank. They color change when I went outside with it wasn''t impressive either. And they only gave me 7 days to check it out independently. I agree about a reputable store not passing off synthetics...I just have to get out there more and compare!


valeria101: http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/gemstone/class.htm
this is the link I read about stones and minerals etc and was interested in gemstones in the Silicate class. So I wasn''t particular with color and I thought I''d settle on a gem other then diamond, ruby sapphire noticed Beryl with a nice color range. I couldn''t afford much and my wife is not a jewelery person and diamonds don''t turn her head. So I was looking at how nice colored stones "could" look with a proper cut and setting etc and decided to shop for that but not many offer good cuts/buys/stock in my local area.


Bertrand:
yes, but I guess if my price range is under $1000, I put myself in a corner trying to authenticate or investigate a ring with the stone in place...since most shops seem to say "it is what it is" and I say "how do you prove it is what it is" and they say any variety of things but I have to get lucky and find a shop with a microscope who takes a minute or two to say "here''s you''re citrine with no radiation treatment" (just an example) "and here''s your lower class melt growth synthetic" I might not have the facts straight yet but I''ve been reading a lot and figure if I get a good deal/experience around NJ I will go back for something nicer another day.

Hest88: Great idea and I think I would certainly give it a shot since I have looked at some of the sites talked about on these forums. In fact, I got excited about looking at stones because of the small articles on Wink''s site. But I cut it too close and I am coming up on my 5th anniversary April 1''st and just plan to hit a few shops I found that might be ok to deal with and I will use my eyes for something inexpensive that sparkles a lot and will be reasonably backed up by the seller. But I certainly would go to the internet in the future since reputation seems to be gathering lots of favorable reviews with a handful of dealers.

Thanks so much for the replies, this is a great site and although I''m really new at this, I appreciate the fact that there are people/dealers out there who love what they do and help others out.

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/21/2005 9:53:58 AM
Author: drov
Thank you all for the response and advice. To reply:

Bertrand:
yes, but I guess if my price range is under $1000, I put myself in a corner trying to authenticate or investigate a ring with the stone in place...since most shops seem to say 'it is what it is' and I say 'how do you prove it is what it is; and they say any variety of things but I have to get lucky and find a shop with a microscope who takes a minute or two to say 'here's you're citrine with no radiation treatment' (just an example) 'and here's your lower class melt growth synthetic' I might not have the facts straight yet but I've been reading a lot and figure if I get a good deal/experience around NJ I will go back for something nicer another day.

Thanks so much for the replies, this is a great site and although I'm really new at this, I appreciate the fact that there are people/dealers out there who love what they do and help others out.

It is not a big deal to have a stone evaluated while it is set. I had my sapphire evaluated loose and later when set. In both cases they were able to determine the important stuff (its real, treatment, origin, color/hue/tone ratings, etc..) - so no problem there. It is against the law to sell gems without disclosing treatments. Since many colored gems are treated, and most jewelers don't want the expense or hassle of labs - they almost always say that you are to assume treatment of some kind. If they tell you something about the gem - have them write on the sales receipt ("this is untreated or natural or xxx type gem). If your appraisal comes back different - you have a basis for return.

However, as mentioned by others perhaps you need to deal with some vendors who have a quality reputation among members here on PS.

www.cherrypicked.com is a very fine place to buy colored gems (perhaps too fine for some). Most people do not know that cherrypicked is actually the internet face of Reginald C Miller in NYC - a very established and respected company. Perhaps worth the hour drive from Jersey? Maybe a quick call to Richard Orbach at cherry/Reginald can provide some assistance in your search - or a referal if he doesn't have what you want.

Also you might want to take a peak at www.awesomegems.com . I have not bought from them but they seem to have alot of good gems and information.

Otherwise you can't go wrong with people like Wink through the net (other than they may be very busy these days).

 

[loupe]

Call American Gem Laboratories in New Yoirk at 212-704-0727. They should be able to guide you to one of their clients that uese their services. They may not do that because that could be perceived as a conflict of interest but they can guide you. Most colored gemstones do not come with a laboratory report if they are under a certain carat weight because it is expensive, retailers tend to trust their suppliers and are not educated themselves about what they are selling. Hence, the shoe staring routine. I would really appreciate anyone out there to raise their hands if they know of relaible colored gemstone labs other than the big 3 - GIA, AGS or, oh well I guess I have to include EGL.

Let me know what happens.

 

[bar01]

I am not aware that GIA actually issues certs for colored stones - rather independant appraiser/labs use the GIA system of grading (clarity, hue, tone, saturation) for colored stones. The good ones also provide their own additional evaluation of cut grading. treatment, and origin. SGL is a fine example of this.

AGL (Cap Beesley) provides his own certs, which are limited to AGL. His reports seem extensive, but are expensive.

AGTA is the "gold standard" in the states for certs on fine colored stones. Their standard cert verifies the type of gem, basics on size and weight, and treatment. For an extra charge they can check on origin. They do not comment on quality (cut, color, clarity, etc).

 

[widget]

Date: 3/21/2005 12:15:22 PM
Author: Bertrand

I am not aware that GIA actually issues certs for colored stones

I''ve got a GIA "Identification Report" for a ruby. It only describes the stone: weight, measurements, etc, and states:

Conclusion: NATURAL RUBY

Comments: No evidence of heat treatment was detected.

:

widget

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/21/2005 12:25:30 PM
Author: widget

Date: 3/21/2005 12:15:22 PM
Author: Bertrand

I am not aware that GIA actually issues certs for colored stones

I've got a GIA 'Identification Report' for a ruby. It only describes the stone: weight, measurements, etc, and states:

Conclusion: NATURAL RUBY

Comments: No evidence of heat treatment was detected.

:

widget

Well ! Thanks for the information!

 

[widget]

I don''t know if the GIA will do a more complete report: picture, country of origin, etc..

What I thought was sort of interesting is that they accepted my stone for the ID
report MOUNTED!

Which reminds me...I was wrong above..they did not quote the weight of the stone. And gave its measurements as "approximate"...

widget

 

[triphane]

Hi,

I think the biggest problem is the stones are not being documented from the source. What is a jeweler going to tell you about a stone he picked from the average Tucson dealer''s tray?

We have sold our gems to a few large jewelry manufactures and include certificates of origin and authenticity. One example is www.ntjusa.com


Follow the link below to see a 18.45 ct trillion cut rubellite we provided for a very beautiful necklace.

Thank you,
Erik


http://www.ntjusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=30&osCsid=a3336ab4c5c61567ba27f56b84e87955

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/21/2005 9:53:58 AM
Author: drov
Thank you all for the response and advice. To reply:


valeria101: http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/gemstone/class.htm
this is the link I read about stones and minerals etc and was interested in gemstones in the Silicate class. So I wasn''t particular with color and I thought I''d settle on a gem other then diamond, ruby sapphire noticed Beryl with a nice color range. I couldn''t afford much and my wife is not a jewelery person and diamonds don''t turn her head. So I was looking at how nice colored stones ''could'' look with a proper cut and setting etc and decided to shop for that but not many offer good cuts/buys/stock in my local area.

Why not! Given the focus on "proper cut" you may want to look for the right stone in a cuter''s collection. An inspired fancy cut could do wonders with any kind of beryl.


You probably know all this but... I need to post something!

Aquamarine seems reasonably popular for engagement rings. Morganite became popular too along with everything pink. Green Beryl is pretty cool ! Yellows (Heliodor) come in bright shades. Emerald and red beryl are seriously precious... and there is a rare hot pink beryl (called pezzotaite) that has been around for only a couple years.

Brownish tinted shades of the above are somewhat frowned upon, but there is peach and light brown beryl too. And colorless (called Goshenite).

Morganite and green beryl are very light colored by definition and small stones (sizes appropriate for every day wear that is) look pale. Everything else comes in bright colors even in small sizes.


Sources online for relatively small, well cut & good color beryls might be Acstones, Concavegems, Customgemstones, AllThatGlitters, Wink''s shop... Michael E.

yellow beryl at All That Glitters

all colors at AJS

aqua and morganite at ACstones including this one:

At least as much as the picture shows, I can hadly imagine stronger aquamarine color on 2 carats... unless considering this:

Below is attached a (very partial) line up of conceve cut beryls from Concavegems

Just a thought, of course. You can probably find similar things elsewhere - these pictures happen to come from the few places I came to know.

I don''t think these guys would have the stones certified, but you could ask them to send your pic to a lab if you so wish. If the seller of the gem will also make the ring, the lab report can identify all the gemstones in the ring. An independent appraisal stating the replacement value of the piece would be good for insurance as well.

Hope some of this helps.

Looking forward for the results, of course !

 

[movie zombie]

i''m looking at one of my gem books [Gemstones of the World by Walter Schumann] and i quote" Precious beryls are brittle and therefore sensitive to pressure and resistant to chemicals used in the household...."

aren''t all beryls, as are emeralds and aquamarines, somewhat brittle for everyday wear and tear as an e-ring despite a Moh''s hardness of 7.5-8?

i really love that yellow richard homer concave cut!

peace, movie zombie

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/22/2005 11:35:14 PM
Author: movie zombie


aren't all beryls, as are emeralds and aquamarines, somewhat brittle for everyday wear and tear as an e-ring despite a Moh's hardness of 7.5-8?

Moh is about resistance to scratching, not "brittleness" (resistance to blows or, I guess, chipping as far as jewelry is concerned).

Sometimes brittleness is judged by how easy and from how many directions a crystal will fracture (= "directions of cleavage"). Diamond has four (hard and brittle). Sapphire is both resistant to scratch and chipping (no cleavage). Beryl is a bit softer than sapphire, but doesn't have anu clear direction of cleavage either.

That 7.5-8 tells that diamonds and sapphire (9-10 Mohs) would scratch Beryl. In practice, diamond is allot harder than sapphire, but sapphire is only a bit harder than Beryl - Mohs' is an ordinal scale (it tells what scratches what in order, but does not tell how different each step is from the next)

Besides, these numbers are quite high. For example, a steel blade is about Moh 6-7 - meaning the "soft" beryl would not be scratched by most household hardware (well, don't try - the darn scale is established for rather idealistic lab conditions).

There must be other such technical measures.



Among beryls... the hoard of inclusions in emerald and red bryl are a separate issue - of course those stones are not as resistant as the clean ones. This is a real problem and is not caught by any general phisical property of the material.

About that scratching - I don't think it can be avoided totally for decades of wear. But... repolishing the crown of the gem (the pavilion doesn't get in contact with anything once the stone is set) is not too hard and does not cause significant loss of weight or anything. Dependng on the shape of the setting, it can be done pretty well without taking the stone out. Meaning: there isn't much trouble from the less than top hardness.

Vintage sapphire jewelry needs repolishing (something left at the free will of the buyer, most of the time). It seems that one notch on the mohs scale doesn't make much of a difference after all. Diamonds need repolishing too - but mostly for chips, not scratches (surprise, surprise).

Of course all this depends on how the owner feels about these details. Green and blue and yellow beryl have been popular and worn for as long as jewelry has been made. How bad can it be ?


Perhaps some of the emerald and aqua owners around here could chime in

 

[movie zombie]

yes, while resistant to scratching, they are more easily chipped. that was my understanding...meaning mor easily chipped.

i have an aqua that took a lot of wearing before i chipped it, visibly that is. i''m not easy on rings and when i finally did chip it, it was just hitting it accidentally on a wall...just the right or wrong way depending on how you look at it. and it looks like that chip sent a fracture deep inside.

peace, movie zombie

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/23/2005 4:59:29 AM
Author: movie zombie

i have an aqua that took a lot of wearing before i chipped it

Sorry to hear this....

''Guess I have to give up defending the softies !

 

[movie zombie]

ana,

that richard homer yellow sapphire looks good enough to eat!!!!

peace, movie zombie

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

gasp....must.....have.....that RH morganite....can''t breathe.......

cheers--Sharon

 

[aries2]

Hi! If you''re anywhere in South Jersey, there is one place I know of that has been there for ever, so they must have a very good rep. It called Gary''s Gemgarden, its on Rt. 70. They have a very nice selection of loose stones and the owner does custom setting. I have never bought a stone there yet (lack of funds : ( ) but I''m saving up to get an Amethyst ring made.
Good luck in your search!

 

[aries2]

PS: Forgot to add above...I have a 10ct Aquamarine ring that I wear almost everyday. I''ve had it for 4 years and its held up excellantly, and I am not easy on my rings.
Also, if you have a somewhat smaller budget, maybe consider an Amethyst ring. You can find beautiful, larger sized Amethysts at an affordable price and they hold up well too!