Dilemma with possible trade-in

[iluvchoc]

My fiancee bought me a stone(a little over 1 carat) with WF about a year ago. He paid approximately $6400 for the stone itself. As we were looking into wedding bands we went to a reputable wholesaler dealer. We would like to upgrade my center stone to a larger one. The wholesaler offered a stone with the specs I was interested in for about $10,000. We are interested in trading in my current stone with the wholesaler, but we have not mentioned it yet since I''ve read here that people can jack up the price of a new stone if they know you are interested in doing an exchange. If a wholesaler knows you are willing to buy a new stone and bands with them do you think they would be more generous in how much they would "pay" for the trade-in? We know they cannot pay what we paid for, but would $5000 be considered too much? My fiancee said he would be ok in keeping the old stone if they offered too little, but ideally we''d like to put that money into other costs such as our wedding, honeymoon, etc. . . Any advice on how best to go about this would be much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[DiamanteBlu]

I think you are right to negotiate for the new pieces before you mention a possible trade-in.

I'm thinking that this reminds me of buying a new car with a trade in! LOL! Always negotiate the two separately. So - I'd get the deal done on the new pieces. Then, deal with the trade in.

If their terms are not good enough you can either walk away from the deal [and they will come chasing after you to offer you more, perhaps] or you can keep your original stone and have it set into a nice pendant.

 

[Maisie]

Why don''t you upgrade your diamond with Whiteflash?

 

[iluvchoc]

I''ve also been looking on whiteflash, but for similar specs it was quite a substantial price difference. Even if we sold the original stone for quite a bit less it still may not make up for the price difference.

 

[lyra]

Date: 12/29/2007 7:30:58 PM
Author: Maisie
Why don''t you upgrade your diamond with Whiteflash?

Yes, that sounds like a better idea completely. I doubt you will get more from the "wholesaler" than you would on a trade-in, and you already know the quality of the WF stones. Are you positive the new stone is worth what they are asking?

 

[denverappraiser]

I agree with the above, start with getting a bid from the original jeweler both on a new stone and on the tradei n. This is especially true if it’s one of their branded stones that may make you eligible for their trade in program.

The analysis is the same no matter who the retailer is and whether or not they describe themselves as a ‘wholesaler’ or anything else. You need 3 numbers.

The price they will pay you for the stone you have.
The price they plan to charge you for the new stone.
The price they will give you in trade (possibly the same, possibly different from the above) if you do them as a bundled deal.

Armed with the above from each of the jewelers you are considering along with the details on each stone and the folks here should be able to help you out with which deal to take.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I think that you should see what Whiteflash can do for you first.

 

[iheartscience]

I would definitely check with Whiteflash to see what they can do for you. Are you looking at their ACAs? Those are super ideals, so those will be more expensive than an average cut diamond. I would see if Whiteflash can bring in some outside stones for you within your specs and budget. I just really doubt that the diamond "wholesaler" (in quotes because a true wholesaler does not sell to the public, ever) is offering diamonds that have the exact same specs for a lot cheaper than Whiteflash.

 

[sera]

How similar are the specs on the diamonds offered for substantially less? Have you seen them and compared them to the WF stones? A less expensive diamond can always be found; I would be concerned with sacrificing cut quality.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/29/2007 10:51:35 PM
Author: sera
How similar are the specs on the diamonds offered for substantially less? Have you seen them and compared them to the WF stones? A less expensive diamond can always be found; I would be concerned with sacrificing cut quality.

Ditto.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Hi,

Is the actual cut quality of the wholesale diamond comparable to the WF diamond? In looking at local jewelers, I''ve found fabulous diamonds but those with similar quality to WF cost quite a bit more so I wonder if the "wholesale" diamond offered is solidly comparable or just has similar cut/clarity and that is why it''s less than WF.

 

[iluvchoc]

My current stone with whiteflash is ideal cut(H&A), G, SI1 at 1.05 carats. The wholesalers'' stone is ideal cut(they called it "triple excellent"), E, SI1 at 1.4 carats. For me, cut is the most important quality, and I would not sacrifice on that. I wasn''t sure how wholesalers overall compared with online retailers like WF in terms of price since I do not have much experience with them personally. Recently, when I did a search I did not find a stone available on WF , but previous ones(several months ago) were around the $15K range. I could ask WF if there are any stones(maybe not listed yet) with similar specs, but I assume they wouldn''t necessary "price-match" with a wholesalers'' price?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/29/2007 11:34:40 PM
Author: iluvchoc
My current stone with whiteflash is ideal cut(H&A), G, SI1 at 1.05 carats. The wholesalers'' stone is ideal cut(they called it ''triple excellent''), E, SI1 at 1.4 carats. For me, cut is the most important quality, and I would not sacrifice on that. I wasn''t sure how wholesalers overall compared with online retailers like WF in terms of price since I do not have much experience with them personally. Recently, when I did a search I did not find a stone available on WF , but previous ones(several months ago) were around the $15K range. I could ask WF if there are any stones(maybe not listed yet) with similar specs, but I assume they wouldn''t necessary ''price-match'' with a wholesalers'' price?

Yes, the wholesaler can call it triple excellent, but what exactly are the specs? (Table, depth, crown angle, etc.) Many, many jewelers call many, many diamonds ideal and most of those are not even close. Who certified the diamond? Is it an AGS 000? GIA? Or is it an EGL cert? All of this will make a big difference in diamond performance and price.

 

[iluvchoc]

Date: 12/30/2007 12:00:10 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/29/2007 11:34:40 PM
Author: iluvchoc
My current stone with whiteflash is ideal cut(H&A), G, SI1 at 1.05 carats. The wholesalers'' stone is ideal cut(they called it ''triple excellent''), E, SI1 at 1.4 carats. For me, cut is the most important quality, and I would not sacrifice on that. I wasn''t sure how wholesalers overall compared with online retailers like WF in terms of price since I do not have much experience with them personally. Recently, when I did a search I did not find a stone available on WF , but previous ones(several months ago) were around the $15K range. I could ask WF if there are any stones(maybe not listed yet) with similar specs, but I assume they wouldn''t necessary ''price-match'' with a wholesalers'' price?

Yes, the wholesaler can call it triple excellent, but what exactly are the specs? (Table, depth, crown angle, etc.) Many, many jewelers call many, many diamonds ideal and most of those are not even close. Who certified the diamond? Is it an AGS 000? GIA? Or is it an EGL cert? All of this will make a big difference in diamond performance and price.

It is a GIA report. I will go see the stone and official report when I visit him in 2 weeks or so, and I can post the specs here when I return. Thanks again everyone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I do not think a 1.4 E SI1 would be anywhere near $15,000. You''ll get a nicer stone sticking with WF. Here are two ideal cut stones OVER 1.5 cts. in their inventory now that are well under that price (so under 1.5 carats would be even less):

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395204.htm F SI1 1.53 cts. ($11,427 w/discount)

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395203.htm E SI1 1.54 cts. ($12,36

That 1.53 F SI1 is a better deal at that price than a 1.4 ct. E SI1 at $10,000, in my opinion. Not to mention you keep your trade-in opportunity.

 

[iluvchoc]

Thanks for the links above. Sorry if this is basic, but are there four instead of five stars because they are not considered H&A or a cut above(aca)?

I found this stone in the 15K range that has five stars which I originally thought was the only H&A currently available in the 1.5 range unless 4 stars/ideal is considered H&A? Any clarification would be much appreciated!

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-560213.h

Date: 12/30/2007 9:56:39 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I do not think a 1.4 E SI1 would be anywhere near $15,000. You''ll get a nicer stone sticking with WF. Here are two ideal cut stones OVER 1.5 cts. in their inventory now that are well under that price (so under 1.5 carats would be even less):

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395204.htm F SI1 1.53 cts. ($11,427 w/discount)

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395203.htm E SI1 1.54 cts. ($12,36

That 1.53 F SI1 is a better deal at that price than a 1.4 ct. E SI1 at $10,000, in my opinion. Not to mention you keep your trade-in opportunity.

tm

 

[diamondseeker2006]

They only give the ACA's 5 stars as far as I know. The other ideal cut stones are in ES. And yes, many of them are considered hearts and arrows. You can look at the idealscope pictures, etc. to see. ACA is just the top tier of H&A stones. You generally wouldn't visibly know the difference between an ACA and a ES in-house WF stone.

As far as the G VS ACA stone goes, you are paying both a premium for ACA AND the price premium for going above 1.5 carats. You are not getting either of those with the wholesaler stone at 1.4 carats.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The F SI1 looks like it didn''t get ACA because polish and symmetry are Excellent instead of Ideal. That is not something anyone can see. Not sure if there is any other reason, but the idealscope looks fine. There''s no reason to think the wholesaler''s stone would be any better than WF Expert Selection, actually.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/29/2007 11:34:40 PM
Author: iluvchoc
My current stone with whiteflash is ideal cut(H&A), G, SI1 at 1.05 carats. The wholesalers' stone is ideal cut(they called it 'triple excellent'), E, SI1 at 1.4 carats. For me, cut is the most important quality, and I would not sacrifice on that. I wasn't sure how wholesalers overall compared with online retailers like WF in terms of price since I do not have much experience with them personally. Recently, when I did a search I did not find a stone available on WF , but previous ones(several months ago) were around the $15K range. I could ask WF if there are any stones(maybe not listed yet) with similar specs, but I assume they wouldn't necessary 'price-match' with a wholesalers' price?

Usually ‘triple excellent’ refers to excellent cut, excellent polish and excellent symmetry as graded by GIA. It has nothing to do with Hearts and Arrows. Most (maybe all?) of the WF Expert selection stones have AGS grading, which uses a different scale for all 3 of these categories and it’s a bit difficult to compare because of it. Research in the forum the differences between GIA-excellent and AGS-ideal.

The H&A rating is coming from the dealer, not the lab and different dealers have wildly different standards for what will qualify. Ask them what THEY mean by it and compare the answers you get.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver