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Did you put 20% down?

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Date: 1/7/2010 4:14:52 PM
Author: somethingshiny

Date: 1/7/2010 3:54:52 PM
Author: Allison D.

The barometer for whether or not one can afford a house isn''t how much they can put down, it''s whether or not their income(s) are reliably sufficient to pay the mortgage every month without prayer.


Well said.
I agree--though I do think that if one can save up the 20%, even if it means living on rice and beans, then the monthly payments are not as much of a vice. Meaning that if you can save $100K on a $500K house, then the $2,000 - $2,500 a month for the mortgage is probably very comfortable since you were likely saving quite a bit more than that per month to reach the downpayment.
 
Date: 1/7/2010 4:41:36 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

I agree--though I do think that if one can save up the 20%, even if it means living on rice and beans, then the monthly payments are not as much of a vice. Meaning that if you can save $100K on a $500K house, then the $2,000 - $2,500 a month for the mortgage is probably very comfortable since you were likely saving quite a bit more than that per month to reach the downpayment.
I somewhat agree. Of course it's always going to be easier to pay a lower mortgage amount, but that doesn't mean it's always the smarter choice to defer buying until you can amass a 20% downpayment.

In my case, the monthly payment difference between putting down 20% vs. 10% is only $216 (on a mortgage of nearly $2K). The house wouldn't have been magically 'more affordable' had I waited to save 20% down; it would have just left me in the rental market longer with less to show for the money I spent.

What made it affordable was these things: a) we didn't carry any other debt (cars paid off, no significant c/c debt), b) we bought a house well within our means, and c) we chose a newer house that would be far less likely to need significant repair funds in the first few years of ownership.

Not only could we comfortably hit our monthly mortgage, but we were able to pay off a $37,500 second mortgage in under 3 years AND save money, too. The house was affordable because of our debt-to-income ratio, not because of the percentage of our downpayment.

I guess my point is this: we still spent the 2.5 years 'saving' the other 10%, but instead of depositing it into a savings account, we 'deposited' it to the 2nd lender to pay off the HELOC. While doing so, we profoundly improved our quality of life since we were 'saving' while living in our home instead of living in less than optimal apartment conditions. We also improved our financial position by using those 2.5 years to pay into our asset instead of rent.

20% is a great guideline, but I agree with Meresal that it's not the be-all, end-all.
1.gif
 
Date: 1/7/2010 4:41:36 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
Date: 1/7/2010 4:14:52 PM

Author: somethingshiny


Date: 1/7/2010 3:54:52 PM

Author: Allison D.


The barometer for whether or not one can afford a house isn''t how much they can put down, it''s whether or not their income(s) are reliably sufficient to pay the mortgage every month without prayer.



Well said.

I agree--though I do think that if one can save up the 20%, even if it means living on rice and beans, then the monthly payments are not as much of a vice. Meaning that if you can save $100K on a $500K house, then the $2,000 - $2,500 a month for the mortgage is probably very comfortable since you were likely saving quite a bit more than that per month to reach the downpayment.

I agree with NEL. Plus, the larger the down payment, the smaller the mortgage payment which means there''s a better chance of being able to continue paying that mortgage if circumstances involuntarily change, such as a layoff, illness, the need to become a caregiver for a family member, etc. And if someone makes a small down payment, you''re more susceptible to market swings if you need to sell. You still have to pay out money to cover real estate commissions, excise taxes and other seller-related costs. That may not make a difference if you plan to stay in the house awhile, but in a flat real estate market (not to mention a declining one), it takes a loooooong time to build enough equity to cover those selling expenses, much less the closing costs and expenses of buying another place.
 
Date: 1/6/2010 8:23:52 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
we bought our house in 1987 when i was 28 yrs old and we paid off our mortgage in 18 yrs by paying an extra $250 per month. believe me.... it feels so good w/o worrying about a mortgage payment every month even though we probably lost about $200K in equity after the bubble had bursted. right now i could care less if my house is worth $100K or 500K i can sleep well at night.my wish now is to recover the money that i lost in the stock market.
39.gif
i so agree with this!

my husband and i are having a debate about this now: he wants to pay off in 10 years [total of 16 years with a mortgage] and i want to pay off in 4 years [10 years total of mortgage]. my point to him is yes we will have depleted a lot of cash but we will have a home to live in as long as we wish and the money used for our mortgage can then be used for other investments.



mz
 
IMO...people shouldn''t carry any debt by the time they turn 55.
 
Date: 1/7/2010 5:53:24 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 1/7/2010 4:41:36 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

I agree--though I do think that if one can save up the 20%, even if it means living on rice and beans, then the monthly payments are not as much of a vice. Meaning that if you can save $100K on a $500K house, then the $2,000 - $2,500 a month for the mortgage is probably very comfortable since you were likely saving quite a bit more than that per month to reach the downpayment.
I somewhat agree. Of course it''s always going to be easier to pay a lower mortgage amount, but that doesn''t mean it''s always the smarter choice to defer buying until you can amass a 20% downpayment.

In my case, the monthly payment difference between putting down 20% vs. 10% is only $216 (on a mortgage of nearly $2K). The house wouldn''t have been magically ''more affordable'' had I waited to save 20% down; it would have just left me in the rental market longer with less to show for the money I spent.

What made it affordable was these things: a) we didn''t carry any other debt (cars paid off, no significant c/c debt), b) we bought a house well within our means, and c) we chose a newer house that would be far less likely to need significant repair funds in the first few years of ownership.

Not only could we comfortably hit our monthly mortgage, but we were able to pay off a $37,500 second mortgage in under 3 years AND save money, too. The house was affordable because of our debt-to-income ratio, not because of the percentage of our downpayment.

I guess my point is this: we still spent the 2.5 years ''saving'' the other 10%, but instead of depositing it into a savings account, we ''deposited'' it to the 2nd lender to pay off the HELOC. While doing so, we profoundly improved our quality of life since we were ''saving'' while living in our home instead of living in less than optimal apartment conditions. We also improved our financial position by using those 2.5 years to pay into our asset instead of rent.

20% is a great guideline, but I agree with Meresal that it''s not the be-all, end-all.
1.gif
I definitely agree that 20% is not the end-all, be-all. Heck, I feel like luck plays a role in itself. I remember having a conversation with a friend several years about about how much to put down. She and her husband bought in 1999 with something like 5% down. She wanted to wait until they had 20% down and her husband wasn''t having it. Well lo and behold, the market took off and their house doubled in value in just 2 years. She said that if they''d waited and done it her way, they''d never be able to afford their own house. They ended up getting divorced in 2005 and sold the house for nearly 4x what they paid. She still jokes about the timing of it. She says it was just pure luck that she got married when the housing market was taking off, let her husband talk her into making what she felt was bad financial decision, then divorced at the peak. She couldn''t have planned it better if she tried, haha

Everybody just has different comfort levels and there is nothing wrong with that. Even D and I had a million discussions about how much to keep out of the downpayment, how much to apply to repairs, how much to apply to updates...ugh, it was miserable.

In my opinion I think 10% is still a pretty hefty chunk of change. It''s not easy to save 10% even in this market of softer prices...which is anothe reason I''m sure prices will still decline.

MZ, my DH and I are having the same debate about length of mortgage. I tend to want to get it paid off ASAP and snowball that money into other investments as soon as the debt is gone. He thinks we should have more balance with cash with kids coming down the pipeline. I find it funny how we can be on the same page financially (both big savers), but still have so many discussions about where is best to put the money.

DF, you have to have your mortgage paid off by the time you''re 40 these days--how else are you supposed to pay for your kids'' 6-figure educations??! :)
 
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