'Wholesale' is a tricky word in this industry and it gets badly abused. Most sellers don't even get that. Dealers have a regualr supply network where they get most of their goods. They have relationships with the suppliers, they get return priviliges if things don't go well, they get time to pay etc. Buying from a consumer gets none of this. The typical terms are cash, now, no recourse. The exception is consignment which comes with it's own headaches. The result is that most private sellers are selling at BELOW wholesale.kenny|1320560279|3055081 said:When we well sell them we only get wholesale.
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What's the difference between that and an investment?bgray|1320590425|3055172 said:thanks--i didnt mean as an investment but as a non cash place to put some money and tuck them away.
diamondseeker2006|1320587170|3055148 said:All that, and in addition, diamond prices are EXTREMELY high right now! Not the time to buy!
denverappraiser|1320591540|3055180 said:What's the difference between that and an investment?bgray|1320590425|3055172 said:thanks--i didnt mean as an investment but as a non cash place to put some money and tuck them away.
Yoram,DiaGem|1320591992|3055183 said:diamondseeker2006|1320587170|3055148 said:All that, and in addition, diamond prices are EXTREMELY high right now! Not the time to buy!
Times are changing (pretty fast too) and I dont think anyone knows exactly what the (near) future will bring.
One thing is for certain, Diamonds will not be valued as they were in the past. I am not talking "higher or lower" just differently.
I am in the trade so I will try to minimize my suggestions but I wouldnt reject the the "safe haven" idea out of future Diamond potential values.
Present valuing systems seem to be off-course already (eg Rap lists et al).
denverappraiser|1320594126|3055194 said:Yoram,DiaGem|1320591992|3055183 said:diamondseeker2006|1320587170|3055148 said:All that, and in addition, diamond prices are EXTREMELY high right now! Not the time to buy!
Times are changing (pretty fast too) and I dont think anyone knows exactly what the (near) future will bring.
One thing is for certain, Diamonds will not be valued as they were in the past. I am not talking "higher or lower" just differently.
I am in the trade so I will try to minimize my suggestions but I wouldnt reject the the "safe haven" idea out of future Diamond potential values.
Present valuing systems seem to be off-course already (eg Rap lists et al).
Interesting post. I agree that the classic way of pricing diamonds using things like the Rap list are clearly obsolete and have been for quite some time. It’s getting worse as non-Rap recognized attributes like hearts and arrows symmetry, branding, specialty cuts and the like become more important. I still think the problem of diamonds as an investment lie in the non-gemological properties of the deal and I don’t see this as changing any time soon. Customers prefer to buy from established and recognized dealers for a variety of reasons, some good and some bad. Customers like to buy ‘new’, also for a variety of reasons. Private sellers are usually in a hurry and are unprepared to offer selling terms like memo or to accept returns. The market may get marginally more efficient in a few areas and some of these people may be willing work for smaller margins but I don’t see any of these fundamental issues changing. Do you?
For some people, most of whom are dealers, yes. For the vast majority of consumers, no. The same holds for most antiques, collectibles like comic books, baseball cards, stamps, vintage automobiles and similar assets. In each of these cases, the tricky part is in the selling although a lot of these things have storage and care issues as well. Buying valuable things is easy. SELLING valuable things is hard.DiaGem|1320596237|3055209 said:Neil, is Art an investment? Store of value? Opinions?
denverappraiser|1320596968|3055223 said:For some people, most of whom are dealers, yes. For the vast majority of consumers, no. The same holds for most antiques, collectibles like comic books, baseball cards, vintage automobiles and similar assets. In each of these cases, the tricky part is in the selling although a lot of these things have storage and care issues as well. Buying valuable things is easy. SELLING valuable things is hard.DiaGem|1320596237|3055209 said:Neil, is Art an investment? Store of value? Opinions?
People often ask me as an appraiser to predict the future price of gold, diamonds, vintage jewelry and similar things that are within my area of expertise. Unfortunately, this is a job for a psychic, not an appraiser. If I (or any other appraiser) could reliably predict tomorrows gold price with, say, a 51% accuracy, we would be fabulously wealthy indeed.kenny|1320598009|3055247 said:So we might argue that diamonds ARE a "safe haven" for 30% maybe 40% of the money you pay for them.
In a crash stocks can go to zero.
Of course even that 30% is not guaranteed "safe" since huge new mines may be discovered, or DeBeers or the Oppenhiemers can go bonkers and affect the supply.
Diamonds and gold have both skyrocketed in price in recent years.
How their prices would hold up after a crash is anyone's guess.
kenny|1320598009|3055247 said:So we might argue that diamonds ARE a "safe haven" for 30% maybe 40% of the money you pay for them.
In a crash stocks can go to zero.
Of course even that 30% is not guaranteed "safe" since huge new mines may be discovered, or DeBeers or the Oppenhiemers can go bonkers and affect the supply.
Diamonds and gold have both skyrocketed in price in recent years.
How their prices would hold up after a crash is anyone's guess.
kenny|1320600057|3055272 said:In terms of value-retention, instead of getting a dozen FCDs, I should have bought only one of the same value as the dozen.
Picking out a purdy rainbow of colors will mean nothing to a buyer some day.
So I'm not such a good example really.
diamondseeker2006|1320602903|3055315 said:I am about to sell a high quality diamond at a nice profit more than likely. Would those of you in the diamond business think it is best to wait to buy another stone or wait? I realize you don't have a crystal ball, but would you personally wait or buy asap?
DiaGem|1320601574|3055286 said:kenny|1320600057|3055272 said:In terms of value-retention, instead of getting a dozen FCDs, I should have bought only one of the same value as the dozen.
Picking out a purdy rainbow of colors will mean nothing to a buyer some day.
So I'm not such a good example really.
Not true..., remember the prices are disproportional in regards to weights & sizes of the specific Gems you picked.
I don't believe you could have found a significantly larger stone for the total value of the rarities you currently own.
diamondseeker2006|1320603815|3055327 said:But in this case, the diamond I am selling will probably yield me 33%+ more than I paid. What I would buy would cost maybe 2/3 of what I get from the sale. So I would retain my profit, but I would likely lose if I ever sold the new stone (but I don't plan on ever doing so).
diamondseeker2006|1320604719|3055335 said:But basically I come out ahead because I am making a profit at the end of the deal. I definitely profit because I make money selling the current stone. I am buying a smaller stone as a replacement. My question is whether it is better to buy the smaller stone now which would be anticipating prices to stay the same or higher or whether prices may correct making it wiser to wait.
And to the original post, I think gold is far easier to buy and sell without the retail price factor interfering.