Diamond verification

[Boloh]

Hi all,

I''ve recently purchased a diamond. When I took the diamond to a verifier, the only sspecifications that she verified were the following:
1. carat
2. clarity
3. fluroescence
4. color

Is this correct? I mean, should she have verified other specs of the diamond as well?

Lastly, upon completion of verification, should I receive some kind of a printed (and signed) statement that says the diamond has been verified by the verifier? I was thinking that this could be useful for presenting to the ring-setter so that they know the diamond has been verified by a certified professional. I didn''t get such a thing, should I have?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Modified Brilliant]

What were the "verifier''s" credentials? Was there a discussion before the evaluation about what
the procedure would be? Everyone has different expectations and appraisers also have certain
procedures in place. There has to be communication between both parties. If you have a
grading report from one of the major labs and you are confident, after the verification process that
the diamond matches the report...then you should be fine. What exactly were you trying to achieve?
That is important also.

Jeff Averbook,GG
Graduate Gemologist/Appraiser
www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Boloh]

Hi Jeff,

The verifier''s credentials are as follows: GG, ISA-CAPP

I guess what I set to achieve is to ensure that the diamond prior to its mounting is the same as the ring after the mounting process. Assuming I have an excellent verifier/appraiser, this process becomes a breeze.

I guess I iniitially assumed that the output of the verification process would be some kind of a ''standardized'' written proof that confirms the diamond''s specifications. If such a thing exists it would enable me to get this diamond mounted confidently, BUT to also then have it appraised afterwards by someone else other than the original verifier! As it stands, because I didn''t get such a written proof, I have to go back to the initial verifier to get my appraisal done.

So I guess from my perspective having the diamond verified certainly safeguards the diamond from being swapped during the mount, since this can be easily detected later during appraisal (which will be compared against the initial verification results).

But having a written proof of the diamond verification allows me to go to any appraiser I want later on. So it''s actually a double safeguard for me as the consumer, since not only does it confirm that my diamond is indeed the same one I had pre-mount, but it also confirms that the initial verification results were correct. I just see this as a tighter and safer process for consumers like myself.

So is it typically normal not to get a ''standardized'' written proof from the verifier that the stone they were asked to verify matches the specs?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[denverappraiser]

Paul,

Did the verifier charge you for this service? Did you tell her up front what you wanted before you hired her? Have you told her that you’re unhappy since?

No, there is not a standardized format for verification services although there are some standard ways of describing diamonds that are taught by GIA and that every GG has to learn. I would expect most people offering gemological services to provide a written report giving the above as well as a photograph or a plotting diagram (or both) that could be used for the purpose you describe but a gemologist could offer some other set of services if they wish.

Presumably verification involves matching the stone to some prior report written by someone else, right? Who? Given that it’s possible to do that, the prior report should have sufficient information that someone else should be able to repeat the matching process. What am I missing here? I’m not understanding either what she did or even what you wanted her to do.

ISA-CAPP is an appraisal credential from the International Society of Appraisers. It has nothing to do with the service you apparently hired her for. That’s not a bad thing, it’s a fine credential. It just doesn’t apply here.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Boloh]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I truly appreciate it.

No, she didn't charge me anything for the verification eventhough I insisted. Apparently she does this once a month.. *shrug*

The diamond I purchased was an AGS000 diamond and it was still in its package when I brought it to the appraiser's office. From there, she measured its weight, clarity, color, and fluorescence. After, she compared it against the diamond's AGS certificate specification. During this process itself I didn't feel entirely comfortable, as she took out other stones to compare against mine. I had to pay close attention at all times which stone was mine. But otherwise, so far so good.

I guess after all that verification I expected to receive a copy of some written report from her. But nothing... She did say that she had to write down a bunch of info on her end to keep a record for herself. But when I asked her whether I should get some kind of a report for my record as well, she said that it's not necessary.

I mean, mind you, she has a reputation to uphold, so I'm sure she is credible, etc, etc. But I just can't help but feel 'nervous' throughout the entire process since everything feels so... 'loose'.

Any thoughts? Is my experience with the verification process normal? What is the normal process anyhow? Should I get more than one verifier and appraiser for my diamond? And, must I insist on getting some kind of a written report?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

 

[denverappraiser]

I don’t consider a verbal 2nd opinion to be especially useful and I count the fact that it was free to be a bad sign. I guess I’m just a cynic. You have not received an appraisal service but then you weren’t charged for one either. The AGS report contains sufficient information for a future appraiser to be able to confirm that the stone matches the one on the report should you choose t hire an appraiser. Whoever you hire, be it her or someone else should put their report in writing and sign it. By all means you should insist on this. Ask about it prior to hiring them and hire someone else if the answer is no.

Here's an article in the FAQ's that might be helpful.
Getting the most out of your jewelry appraisal

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

I tried to post this before and it errored out...

its not uncommon to have a stone looked at unset then set it and have a written report done on the finished ring and not the lose stone, its in the final report for the ring.
I wonder if this isn't just a huge miscommunication.
This makes sence from several points...

Didnt need a report right now because it will be in the final report. check
She kept records. check
She didnt charge because she was too get paid for the final report. check
it adds up....


Color of a diamond is graded against a master set of diamonds so bringing out other diamonds is 100% normal. check there too.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Actually, you already have an AGS grading report, so a verbal verification seems completely adequate to me! Then get a written appraisal once the stone is set.

Just wanted to add that you shouldn't take your stone to a jeweler you don't trust to have it set anyway. Go to the most reputable one you can find and you won't need to worry about your stone being switched, if that is what your concern is.

 

[Boloh]

Thanks for all your feedbacks.

So are you guys saying:
1. Verbal confirmation of the diamond''s specification prior to its setting is ok since I have the AGS report
2. Go ahead with getting the diamond set and have it appraised right after

If that''s the case, would the appraisal report be sufficient in confirming that the diamond I have indeed matches its AGS certification?

I guess the confusion on my part is that I''ve been told in the past to get my diamond verified before it''s set, and then appraise it afterwards. It sounds like appraisal alone is enough. And if getting the diamond verified is important, I didn''t realize that it would be so informal (i.e. verbal confirmation).

Am I understanding this correctly?

Lastly, Neil mentioned that I should know in advance what it is that I want to get out of the appraisal. For a typical engagement ring, what are some of the typical things I should expect to get out of the appraisal aside from just its value?

Thanks as always,
Paul

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/13/2008 11:46:07 PM
Author: Boloh
Thanks for all your feedbacks.

So are you guys saying:
1. Verbal confirmation of the diamond's specification prior to its setting is ok since I have the AGS report
2. Go ahead with getting the diamond set and have it appraised right after

If that's the case, would the appraisal report be sufficient in confirming that the diamond I have indeed matches its AGS certification?

I guess the confusion on my part is that I've been told in the past to get my diamond verified before it's set, and then appraise it afterwards. It sounds like appraisal alone is enough. And if getting the diamond verified is important, I didn't realize that it would be so informal (i.e. verbal confirmation).

Am I understanding this correctly?

Lastly, Neil mentioned that I should know in advance what it is that I want to get out of the appraisal. For a typical engagement ring, what are some of the typical things I should expect to get out of the appraisal aside from just its value?

Thanks as always,
Paul

1: for me yes
2: I would by the same person with the note that she examined it lose before hand.

yes because she could match it even set but since she saw it lose she can add that.

You should get a full report with preferably pictures that describes the item in enough detail for it too be replaced exactly giving the insurance company no wiggle room.
Every thing should be described from brands, reports, to the 4c's of all stones, materials used in the ring, anything that effects value, h&a if the stone is, stuff like that.

 

[Boloh]

Date: 1/14/2008 12:03:54 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/13/2008 11:46:07 PM
Author: Boloh
Thanks for all your feedbacks.

So are you guys saying:
1. Verbal confirmation of the diamond''s specification prior to its setting is ok since I have the AGS report
2. Go ahead with getting the diamond set and have it appraised right after

If that''s the case, would the appraisal report be sufficient in confirming that the diamond I have indeed matches its AGS certification?

I guess the confusion on my part is that I''ve been told in the past to get my diamond verified before it''s set, and then appraise it afterwards. It sounds like appraisal alone is enough. And if getting the diamond verified is important, I didn''t realize that it would be so informal (i.e. verbal confirmation).

Am I understanding this correctly?

Lastly, Neil mentioned that I should know in advance what it is that I want to get out of the appraisal. For a typical engagement ring, what are some of the typical things I should expect to get out of the appraisal aside from just its value?

Thanks as always,
Paul

1: for me yes
2: I would by the same person with the note that she examined it lose before hand.

yes because she could match it even set but since she saw it lose she can add that.

You should get a full report with preferably pictures that describes the item in enough detail for it too be replaced exactly giving the insurance company no wiggle room.
Every thing should be described from brands, reports, to the 4c''s of all stones, materials used in the ring, anything that effects value, h&a if the stone is, stuff like that.

Hi,

When you say "yes because she could match it even set but since she saw it lose she can add that.", did you actually mean to say:

"yes because she could match it even after the diamond has been set but since she saw it lose she can add that"

Sorry, this would clarify a lot for me.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Boloh]

I forgot to include this question in my last post. So if appraisal alone after the diamond has been set is enough, then do I even need to go back to the person who originally verified my diamond (i.e. verbal confirmation of the diamond''s spec before it is set)?

 

[denverappraiser]

If the ‘verification’ was simply the beginning part of an appraisal process that hasn’t been completed yet, I agree with Storm, you’re doing fine. She can use the AGS report to match it again in the final product and use her original notes along with whatever she learns in the second inspection to write her final report.

Yes, she can match it after it’s set using the AGS report and yes, she can write a report at that time including data from her first inspection. Only she can tell you if this is the plan but it's a reasonable approach. Ask.

No, you don't need to do the appraisal with this same appraiser but I also agree with the above that this sounds like a miscommunication problem about what is expected and when. Call her up and talk to her.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/14/2008 6:31:15 AM
Author: Boloh


Hi,

When you say ''yes because she could match it even set but since she saw it lose she can add that.'', did you actually mean to say:

''yes because she could match it even after the diamond has been set but since she saw it lose she can add that''

Sorry, this would clarify a lot for me.

Thanks,
Paul

complicated....
examined set at best is an estimated grade.
She can give an opinion that it matches the report after its set, where she can say she graded it as a (color) loose.
The later is a stronger case.

 

[denverappraiser]

The usual process with my new purchase customers involves 2 inspections. The first is of the unmounted stone and involves a full grading, cut analysis and a valuation as relates to the marketplace in question. This is done during the return period for the selling jeweler and is part of the shopping process. It includes confirming that the stone is (or isn’t) the same as what is described by the lab and it includes a discussion of any differences between my grading and theirs. In addition to being able to better examine and grade the stone unmounted, with most sellers it voids their return program to have it mounted so if the results of the inspection are to be used in making a keep/return decision it generally MUST be done before it’s set. Lastly, for JM clients, this provides the report necessary to get insurance immediately that will cover the possibility of damage during the setting process.

The second inspection is of the finished piece and includes a matching to the report and the original exam as well as confirmation that it hasn’t been damaged and to inspect both the mounting and the setting job as well as the other stones and materials. Usually this involves a valuation and report for insurance purposes and this will include data from both inspections as well as the AGS document, manufacturers warranty and whatever relevant paperwork we have about either the diamond or the piece.

I generally provide a report immediately after both sessions but others may take some time to type things up and whatnot. Depending on the client needs, I suppose a single report at the end may be sufficient but if you have specific desires about when and how things get reported, discuss it with them up front. They may or may not agree to do what you want but this makes it clear to both sides what is going to happen.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver